Goblin Squad Member
|
The Stage
I am sure many of you are familiar with my arguments as to why good aligned factions should settle to the north-west. Today I speak to another crowd. The forces of evil and chaos.
Your groups are in a bad way right now. Right now there are only two settlements that have declared themselves as evil as opposed to the whopping 12 good settlements. 5 of whom are top 10.
Looking at the EE map, there is a major good aligned power on both ends. Though technically The Western Kingdoms is not formed yet, it's in the process of doing so, and will be a major power if it includes the settlements invited to join.
So that's where things stand. Two good alliances with a neutral alliance containing one major lawful evil settlement between them. With no surprise move by an evil faction to come in and ninja a spot in the landrush good is left with a clearly dominant positon. It's a hard breakdown for those looking to come into this game and build evil settlements.
Where will you you train in the arts of evil and chaos? Where will you sell your ill-gotten gains? Where will you rest in-between sacking and pillaging? Chaotic-evil needs a home.
The Call
But all is not lost. There is a place for those who follow the ways of chaos and evil. You will not be handed your location as others have but you can birth your nation as any such nation should be born. Through blood, steel, tears, and flame.
The forces of good may dominate both sides of the map but they have cut themselves off from each-other, and divided as they are a unified front of evil may move against and crush either side. It will not be easy. I may very well result in the first major war of Pathfinder Online. But it can be done, and it should be.
Which Side to Move Against
To the northwest there is The Great Western Kingdoms. To the southeast the Everbloom Alliance. The northwest may appear the better target at a quick glance but after examining the full situation I feel the Everbloom Alliance is clearly the better target.
First, and going back to one of the major issue's I've talked of before. It's an issue of recruitment.
I present, the southeast in open enrollment.
The southeast is about half an hour from the major recruitment hubs for evil and chaos while about two hours for the major recruitment hub for good. There are two major implications here.
1. The good aligned factions in the southeast have crippled their own long-term growth potential while the good aligned factions to the north have empowered it.
2. If you take the northwest you will cripple your own growth potential, while the south-east will empower you.
The next issue is of course the balance of power between the 3 major alliances. Right now The Northern Coalition is an evil leaning but neutral alliance sandwiched between two clearly good alliances. It seems like it is probably only a matter of time before both good aligned alliances turn on it, and attack it on either front. So trying to take territory from The Northern Coalition is clearly out. If you win, after weakening the cause of evil, you'll inherit their same position, and be flanked on two fronts.
What you need to win is to take either power on with either the blessing or apathy of the Northern Coalition. Then if either good power moves to support the other, they leave their homelands undefended form the aggressive expansionist threat that is Golgotha. So who is The Northern Coalition more likely to support?
While I am myself affiliated with the NC I will say I in no way speak for them. I make this move on my own, and have not even discussed it with the rest of the NC or even Aragon. That being said, I would like to point out the Pax Fidelis belongs to Ozem's Vigil, a likely signatory of the Great Western Kingdom. Yes, the same Pax that owns two top 10 settlements in the Northern Coalition. So if a power were to move against the GWK then there is some chance the NC would come in to protect the interests of Pax. Move against the EA... well... there are few real ties between the EA and NC and some bad blood between individual members. Why would they stop a push against the good factions to the south east when it removes them from a situation where they are flanked by neighbors who may one day unify against them?
The Plan
Still help from the greater whole of the NC should not be assumed by anyone moving against either side. This may be a move you have to make largely on your own. So how can an alliance with hundreds of members be subdued. Well for those not familiar with me, I built TEO from the ground up. I am very familiar with the inner-workings of the EA and I know their weaknesses.
The greatest weakness is this. In all my time in the groups that now form the EA, I've met very few who say that they really truly love Open World PvP. Oh some are willing. Some say they will come to the defense of their homeland if needed. But people who say that they log on every day hoping for some good fights? Almost none. And a TON of them have said they would prefer to avoid PvP. Among the evil and chaotic factions of this game? A majority love PvP, and very few have said they would prefer to avoid it.
So how do we win? Bring the PvP to them. Make it constant. Make it brutal. Their factions will splinter and many will leave for the GWK if they can find more peace there. Sure, they have the numbers to beat any faction if they move against them on the open battlefield, but if we wear them out through constant guerrilla and skirmish warfare, things will change. We will eventually cut them down to size. At that point we can make a massive push and defeat them on the open field.
Who Will Control The Territory We Seize
As an officer in a chaotic good group I seek two things. The reunification of good, and the downfall of Brighthaven and Phaeros. Who will claim Brighthaven and rule it as Blighthaven? I care not. You have my full support in the war effort, but ownership of the SE has never interested me. I offer my services in battle, and leave the issues of ownership to those who wish to control this region.
How To Get Involved
I've said as much of the plan as I believe is wise to state publicly. If you would like to get in on this initiative, either for power and land, or for the glory of helping win the first major server war, then please PM me either through this boards or on our The Sentinel's site. I will begin setting up the leadership of the respective interested parties with the names of other parties, so we can discuss together the fine details of our plan together.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
That being said, I would like to point out the Pax Fidelis belongs to Ozem's Vigil, a likely signatory of the Great Western Kingdom. Yes, the same Pax that owns two top 10 settlements in the Northern Coalition. So if a power were to move against the GWK then there is some chance the NC would come in to protect the interests of Pax.
While it is true that members of Fidelis are members of Pax Gaming. It follows that members of Fidelis are probably of some interest to Pax Gaming.
It is not true that Fidelis is tied (in any way) to Xeilias or the NC. I believe that you are afflicted with a serious lack of information. Surely you would want to present facts correctly if you wish to have people trust you and follow you.
I know that I would.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
That being said, I would like to point out the Pax Fidelis belongs to Ozem's Vigil, a likely signatory of the Great Western Kingdom. Yes, the same Pax that owns two top 10 settlements in the Northern Coalition. So if a power were to move against the GWK then there is some chance the NC would come in to protect the interests of Pax.While it is true that members of Fidelis are members of Pax Gaming. It follows that members of Fidelis are probably of some interest to Pax Gaming.
That's the point I was trying to make. I know that Fidelis falls outside the NC, so I assume there is some split in the official relations but Pax is still Pax and in the end I think it's safe to assume Pax may be interested in protecting the interests of other Pax members. It's a much stronger tie than any tie between NC and EA groups.
If you look at the statement in a different light:
That being said, I would like to point out the Pax Fidelis belongs to Ozem's Vigil, a likely signatory of the Great Western Kingdom. Yes, the same Pax that owns two top 10 settlements in the Northern Coalition. So if a power were to move against the GWK then there is some chance the NC would come in to protect the interests of Pax.
It's just speculation. Not a statement that it's a forgone conclusion the NC will protect Ozem's Vigil if it comes under threat.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I fail to see the good in your plan, Sentinel.
It's there, but to be honest the only good aligned faction who's opinion I care much about in this matter is The Sentinels. I have no desire to turn the good community on itself and the good factions I care about most are too far from the action to play a major part no matter who they side with.
The Sentinels already have a.... reputation so there is no harm in us taking part. We aren't the ones the EA will have to move in with after Blighthaven has come to pass.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The northwestern states do not have an alliance, and referring to GWK as a foregone conclusion is very premature. I don't believe that alliance is inevitable or even probable.
Alignment is a lousy reason to go to war. I expect PFO's large wars will mostly be over territory, resources, banditry, and other practical concerns, not over abstract roleplay principles.
Even if alignment becomes the justification for war, I'd expect the split to be law vs chaos rather than good vs evil, again for practical reasons: chaotic players are much more disruptive to those around them than lawful evil are.
With that said, a former champion of good inciting evil to attack good, out of bitterness and vengefulness against his erstwhile companions, is a stereotypical move in the fall from good to evil, so I'm amused to see you refer to your own company as good.
Fidelis and Golgotha are no more likely to defend each other than any other two random groups. Shared Pax membership is a red herring; friends can point and laugh at each other's defeats.
It's way too early to try to foment war anyway. In the early months of the game people are going to be focused on learning mechanics and building their characters and their economies. And settlement destruction won't be in for a good while anyway. Bump your post in a year and hope for better results then.
All in all, "Meh" is probably just about right.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That being said, I would like to point out the Pax Fidelis belongs to Ozem's Vigil, a likely signatory of the Great Western Kingdom. Yes, the same Pax that owns two top 10 settlements in the Northern Coalition. So if a power were to move against the GWK then there is some chance the NC would come in to protect the interests of Pax.While it is true that members of Fidelis are members of Pax Gaming. It follows that members of Fidelis are probably of some interest to Pax Gaming.
It is not true that Fidelis is tied (in any way) to Xeilias or the NC. I believe that you are afflicted with a serious lack of information. Surely you would want to present facts correctly if you wish to have people trust you and follow you.
I know that I would.
This can not be restated enough. It was the primary argument for the separation of Fidelis from EoX. They are their own entity.
I have a lot of friends from over the years in Fidelis, but they do what is best for them, and we us.
We can war with each other, we can fight each other. We just have to follow our rules of sportsmanship. No alliance is guaranteed by our membership in the Pax community.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The northwestern states do not have an alliance, and referring to GWK as a foregone conclusion is very premature.
Guurzak is very correct. So far, as a group, all we've done is gathered on a mumble server to get information from Cheatle and talk about Ebola.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It is not true that Fidelis is tied (in any way) to Xeilias or the NC.This can not be restated enough. It was the primary argument for the separation of Fidelis from EoX. They are their own entity.
The pedant in me will disagree. I think the increased odds of support of one of the two groups for the other is pretty small, but Andius is probably at least partially right. All else being equal there will be some (however small) chance that other Pax members will be predisposed to find an acceptable reason to support their fellow members. Even if it's something as small as refocusing their banditry attacks in 1 out of 10 instances.
Now, with the friendships and dependencies that develop both in play and here on the boards, I suspect that the likelihood of all else being equal is pretty slim....
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'm glad to see that Andius has been a bit more calm in his delivery with his new initiative. Hopefully this rivalry can get back into the form of "it's part of the game" and not so personal.
Good luck with your new endeavor!
I have to disagree with your assessment here Bluddwolf. After reading Andius' post a few times, it still feels like it is personal to him.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have to disagree with your assessment here Bluddwolf. After reading Andius' post a few times, it still feels like it is personal to him.I'm glad to see that Andius has been a bit more calm in his delivery with his new initiative. Hopefully this rivalry can get back into the form of "it's part of the game" and not so personal.
Good luck with your new endeavor!
Oh come on, it's obviously not personal at all...
I seek two things. The reunification of good, and the downfall of Brighthaven and Phaeros.
See? Nothing personal there. It's all just fun and games.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It is not true that Fidelis is tied (in any way) to Xeilias or the NC.This can not be restated enough. It was the primary argument for the separation of Fidelis from EoX. They are their own entity.The pedant in me will disagree. I think the increased odds of support of one of the two groups for the other is pretty small, but Andius is probably at least partially right. All else being equal there will be some (however small) chance that other Pax members will be predisposed to find an acceptable reason to support their fellow members. Even if it's something as small as refocusing their banditry attacks in 1 out of 10 instances.
Now, with the friendships and dependencies that develop both in play and here on the boards, I suspect that the likelihood of all else being equal is pretty slim....
Maybe.
I certainly can't change anyone's intuition. Honestly I would expect the same scenario. All I can do is provide my input on how things have actually gone down, and that attempts to secure a formal friendship have thus far been mutually unsuccessful.
That might change in the future, and I hope it does. Right now however Fidelis and EoX could not be more separate.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
The Fallen One speaks and no one listens.
Actually, 12 people "listened" including youself. Perhaps something more constructive may come to you.
For instance, I could see this kind of rivalry developing into human interactions that can have meaning within the context of the game. Let's put aside the obvious, PvP through : feud, faction and war.
Bounties, Assassinations and something I thought of, inspired by a tv show I used to watch... Man Tracker...
The Premise:
Assuming there are tracking skills / fears and evasion skills / fears, as well as camouflage (which we no to be "stealth"), there can be a competition putting head-to-head expert trackers vs expert evaders.
Evader Win Conditions: Get to the Finish Line or Time Elapses without being captured.
Tracker Win Conditions: Capture / kill the evader within the allotted time and before the evader reaches the finish line.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I have to disagree with your assessment here Bluddwolf. After reading Andius' post a few times, it still feels like it is personal to him.I'm glad to see that Andius has been a bit more calm in his delivery with his new initiative. Hopefully this rivalry can get back into the form of "it's part of the game" and not so personal.
Good luck with your new endeavor!
Oh come on, it's obviously not personal at all...
I seek two things. The reunification of good, and the downfall of Brighthaven and Phaeros.See? Nothing personal there. It's all just fun and games.
Actually it is exactly what the game provides and is meant to be fun. The downfall of settlements is a major part of the game, it is the pinnacle of achievement to either conquer a settlement or to fend off a siege / conquest attempt.
Whereas PFO may not be designed to be a "Murder Simulator" it is definitely being designed to be a "Feud / War Simulator".
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually it is exactly what the game provides and is meant to be fun.
Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm the last guy who'll stand in the way of someone speaking their mind, or trying to win others to their cause by explaining the reasons a particular Settlement should be opposed.
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsy, and mostly boil down to "they didn't recognize my brilliance".
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsy
Hence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Actually it is exactly what the game provides and is meant to be fun.Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm the last guy who'll stand in the way of someone speaking their mind, or trying to win others to their cause by explaining the reasons a particular Settlement should be opposed.
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsy, and mostly boil down to "they didn't recognize my brilliance".
Well this is odd, I agree with Nihimon on this one. If nothing else it just seems...boring.
Besides, there are plenty of building grudge matches and cold wars that stand to make a better story.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsyHence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.
Hey, Areks, save it for the game, eh? I mean, we know you've always recognized Andius's brilliance, so your support for him is kinda meaningless, right?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsyHence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.
A grudge because a large group secured a spot you and a small group wanted to eventually secure is flimsy. Unless I am missing something?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A grudge because a large group secured a spot you and a small group wanted to eventually secure is flimsy. Unless I am missing something?I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsyHence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.
We always loved K. Just not for us.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsyHence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.
I don't understand. Are you saying it's not good strategy to go for a location that has a lot of good stuff going for it?
edit: To me, that seems to confirm that Andius was right. If you're saying the largest group on the LR2 board took a hex that wasn't great just because Andius wanted it, I think that's a stretch.
We always loved K. Just not for us.A grudge because a large group secured a spot you and a small group wanted to eventually secure is flimsy. Unless I am missing something?I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsyHence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.
I thought there was more to this story than just a land dispute?
I for one applaud your efforts, Andius, and think it reflects highly on the community that you're making an effort to get revenge using the game while at the same time welcoming others to your evil haven. I'm glad that, as a good character, I'll have even more to worry about while in the wilderness. Looking forward to seeing what Blighthaven can accomplish.
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsyHence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.I don't understand. Are you saying it's not good strategy to go for a location that has a lot of good stuff going for it?
edit: To me, that seems to confirm that Andius was right. If you're saying the largest group on the LR2 board took a hex that wasn't great just because Andius wanted it, I think that's a stretch.
Definitely is a stretch. Athansor has always wanted K from the beginning because, as Andius' map shows, it's very close to the starting area for good-aligned players. The opinions of others really had nothing to do with Talonguard's decision to go with K.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, when this tread gets locked, can we not delete so much? Those of us that check these forums constantly know, but everyone else isn't seeing the true colors of a few posters here. They get saved by the delete and their public image isn't as damaged.
I know that this may be against Paizo's policy, so I would urge GW to ease up on the editing practices when their forums are public.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Actually it is exactly what the game provides and is meant to be fun.Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm the last guy who'll stand in the way of someone speaking their mind, or trying to win others to their cause by explaining the reasons a particular Settlement should be opposed.
I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsy, and mostly boil down to "they didn't recognize my brilliance".
You do realize your talking to someone who views PFO as an open world PvP game? There is no needed "reason" to PvP, so any reason provided is bonus story telling.
Players are going to amass armies and conquer settlements, not because they have some universally recognized reason for doing so, but because that is what the game is meant to be. PFO is a Settlement vs. Settlement War Simulator. Every individual character, no matter what their role, is just a cog in that machine.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
We always loved K. Just not for us.I thought there was more to this story than just a land dispute?
It's a great spot. Grats.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am not going to promote the formation of military force against a power block that hilariously outnumbers us to resolve one persons grudge match. It might be a valid reason in the context of the game. That does not mean it is a good enough reason.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
A grudge because a large group secured a spot you and a small group wanted to eventually secure is flimsy. Unless I am missing something?I just think the particular reasons in this case are pretty flimsyHence the winner of LR2 (The only other organization with over 100 folks) picking the spot Andius wanted to go for.... and the devs applauding their decision as "strategic". PLENTY of flimsy there.
Ohhmergersh!! Areks is a traitor! Get that PM yet, CG?
A grudge is not why Andius is doing this. Of course we all know what opinions are like...
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So far the last few months I have gotten quite a bit less "Areks is a plant" messages. It might be because the main person sending them is no longer a settlement leader.
I of course disagree, and that is ok. All I ask is that we don't froth at the mouth until the devs come in to tranquilize us in the process.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I am not going to promote the formation of military force against a power block that hilariously outnumbers us to resolve one persons grudge match. It might be a valid reason in the context of the game. That does not mean it is a good enough reason.
And to be clear, neither do I. Just saying people are getting some things twisted. I'm not supporting this initiative, but at the same time there is a lot to be said about folks claiming this is all about a "grudge". Regardless... Meh.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So far the last few months I have gotten quite a bit less "Areks is a plant" messages. It might be because the main person sending them is no longer a settlement leader.
I of course disagree, and that is ok. All I ask is that we don't froth at the mouth until the devs come in to tranquilize us in the process.
*Areks runs to the end of his chain and barks* =)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
*Areks runs to the end of his chain and barks* =)So far the last few months I have gotten quite a bit less "Areks is a plant" messages. It might be because the main person sending them is no longer a settlement leader.
I of course disagree, and that is ok. All I ask is that we don't froth at the mouth until the devs come in to tranquilize us in the process.
Man, you would have made a great pvp lead with some experience. I wish I could have made that sell instead of the lead of the diplomatic / state / security lead :P
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Who we are now and what we will become is entirely a matter that will play out in game. As of now, we have rallied behind Brighthaven as a Shield, defending the frontier as a place for Good to flourish. Constant assault could break us and send us packing to the North, where Good is meant to hide in a corner and allow everyone else to claim the open expanses to the Southeast. Or it could change our symbol from the Shield to the Sword, looking to strike down evil before it has a chance to strike at us, forging a more militant and aggressive settlement. It may be that both of these are goals in this initiative. Will we break? Will we change? I could talk about sticking to principles, but in truth only time shall tell.
So bring your armies if you wish to challenge us. If you can muster them. Let actions prove our truths. Brighthaven is not afraid. We shall meet our fate in battle, be it victory or defeat. In either case, we shall pick ourselves up again. And also in either case, we shall remember whichever friends are willing to stand with us.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Who we are now and what we will become is entirely a matter that will play out in game. As of now, we have rallied behind Brighthaven as a Shield, defending the frontier as a place for Good to flourish. Constant assault could break us and send us packing to the North, where Good is meant to hide in a corner and allow everyone else to claim the open expanses to the Southeast. Or it could change our symbol from the Shield to the Sword, looking to strike down evil before it has a chance to strike at us, forging a more militant and aggressive settlement. It may be that both of these are goals in this initiative. Will we break? Will we change? I could talk about sticking to principles, but in truth only time shall tell.
So bring your armies if you wish to challenge us. If you can muster them. Let actions prove our truths. Brighthaven is not afraid. We shall meet our fate in battle, be it victory or defeat. In either case, we shall pick ourselves up again. And also in either case, we shall remember whichever friends are willing to stand with us.
The lands of Milani will be free and the corrupted agent of Desna will be hunted!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So far the last few months I have gotten quite a bit less "Areks is a plant" messages.
This makes me laugh. I'm sincerely glad for you that you don't also have folks publicly taunting you for having a "meltdown" and a "witch hunt" because of it. Some folks get their kicks in very strange ways...