Hello I have a Monk specific question for you all. I was already kicked out of my gaming group because I was arguing with the GM about this (I don't think I was that bad but he got pissed off). So this is more of a question for future reference for me because I am trying to learn the game system still.
Rygar is a level 9 Human Monk, he has a base speed of 60 feet, he has a Acrobatics Score of 14(9 Ranks, +3 Class Skill, +2 Dexterity Mod) then he has a +9 to jump from his passive high jump skill. bringing the total to +23 Jump without a KI point, with a KI point he gets an addition +20 to jump bringing it to +43 Jump.
Now the first part of the question is with a base speed of 60 feet does he also get the +4 for every 10 feet above 30 for base speed in acrobatics? If not the above is still his Jump score, if yes then it is +35 without a KI point and +55 with a KI point.
Now the last part of the question is if Rygar wants to jump from platform A to Platform C and there is a total distance of 40-50 feet between them but there is a platform B about halfway between the A and C platforms. Can Rygar Jump to Platform B then C in the same move action to then bull rush an enemy off of the platform all in the same turn/round.
My GM said Jumping to Platform B is a Move Action then jumping from Platform B to C is another Move Action which then took my standard action so it ended my turn. I believe that Jumping twice should be fine as long as I am not exceeding my base speed of 60 feet for my Move Action.
The Argument was about that but he said he was going with the official Paizo Rules and not a House Rule if he said it was a House Rule this wouldn't be bugging me so much.
Thank you and I hope that you can help me with this headache of a debate.
Rayteku
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Under acrobatics:
Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
So there is no action to jump, it is part of another action, in this case a move.
No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round. This is the key point here, you can jump once or several times with a single move action as long as the total movement doesn't exceed your movement for the action.
The bonus for jumping for speed is in addition to all other bonuses.
Yes, you get the boost from having a fast speed (+12 in your case).
The second part is a fairly common error on your GM's part. Jumping is not an action, but rather a part of a movement. So you take move actions, and make an acrobatics check to move the required distance. If a single movement requires multiple jumps, then it is a single move action with multiple acrobatic checks.
My condolences for your headache.
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I believe you can take 10 on a jump check as well; meaning Rygar can easily jump 45 feet from standing still without spending a ki point, as a single move action... or 60 feet if he spends a ki point for +20 (the jump is capped at 60' do to your movement for a single move action).
If Rygar wanted to exceed the 60' cap on his jump distance he would need to spend two move actions...
Based on the information provided here; by you, I would say that you were right and your GM was wrong.
He would only be able to take 10 in a non-stressful, non-combat situation. With the mention of the enemy, it was probably was a combat situation.
Reading thorugh here it seems everyone has everyhting pretty much covered. It does appear you are right and your GM was wrong.
However, the fact that your GM decided to kick you makes me think there is another side to this story.
I know personally I can get very...aggresive...during arguments. Especially in person. In the future try not arguing with your GM during the game, which generally only makes them upset due to the disruption of the game, but instead note your disagreement and offer to look up the rules so it can discussed (outside of the game) and the ruling applied in the future.
Yeah a DM kicking out players is pretty petty ..... Does he "own" the game????? He is the boss of the world not the game in general..... a little power (not even the real kind) can go to peoples head real fast huh!!!!!! he sounds like petty d-bag
Yeah a DM kicking out players is pretty petty ..... Does he "own" the game????? He is the boss of the world not the game in general..... a little power (not even the real kind) can go to peoples head real fast huh!!!!!! he sounds like petty d-bag
Ehh, I would say yes and no. Sure, there are plenty of jerk GM's out there. However, there are probably at least as many jerk players out there too. Why would the GM run a game that only gives him aggravation because of jerk players? All we know about the OP's situation is that the OP "Didn't think I was that bad, but he got pissed off." I'm guessing that it didn't go down like this:
Player: I want to make two jumps over to C and then Bull Rush.
GM: You can't do that, that would require two move actions per the rules, so you wouldn't have an action left with which to bull rush.
Player: Oh, I thought Jump was no action and that it could be broken into multiple jumps.
GM: GET OUTTA MY GAME!!!!!!!!
To be fair, we also don't know that the OP was a complete and total jerk either. Certainly its possible the GM was being petty, but just as no player is required to play with a particular GM, neither is a GM required to play with a particular player (realizing of course that PFS is a bit of a different animal that doesn't sound as though it applies here).
But, back on topic, yeah it sounds as though the OP was right and the GM was wrong per RAW.
First of all thank you everyone for the replies and support, it is nice to know that I was right but I feel I should clarify a few things.
I understand that I did not explain the situation with my GM very well, The Majority of the group voted to kick me out not just him. I have Aspergers (a very high functioning form of autism) and I can get very loud and aggressive without meaning to or even realizing it. I also have a Cocktail of other Neurological conditions that really don't help in these situations.
I feel a lot better about it from the posts that you have all written but feel I need to defend the GM because I am very upset about this but he is still a good guy.
This was not the first time I got into a debate with him about the rules and he knew I was learning and that I have the conditions that I have but I am a very tough person to get along with, I can come across as an a+*&$&+ without trying to but I am working on it.
@Gargs454
Thank you very much for your words I like the way that you didn't assume that it was all him and there was more to the story.
@Claxon
Thank you also for knowing that there are 2 sides to every story.
@Devin
Thank you for the support but I hope the above helps paint a better picture of what happened.
@Everyone
Thank you all for the support and knowledge of all the game rules and I hope that I can learn more of the system and rules through this forum. My OP was my first post here and I have to say the community seems like a great one and I hope to have this much of an awesome experience in the future on these forums.
Thank you all again,
Rayteku
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I don't know how it is to be in your shoes. But I would suggest reading this much related question/answer from rpg stack exchange and trying to incorporate this into your habits. LINK
@Rayteku: The good news here is that you understand that your Aspergers affects how you come across. That's always the first step to changing. I have played with individuals with Asperger's before, so while I cannot say that I know exactly what you are dealing with, I do understand a little bit about it. The link that claudekennilol provided is a great place to start.
The other thing, which may be harder to accept (and this is true for all players, not just those with Aspergers) is that the history of D&D (from which Pathfinder is derived) is that there is the so-called Rule 0 that states "The GM is always right" (even when he or she is clearly wrong). I look at it this way, I am a lawyer and I appear in Court almost every day. One of the things we always say is that there's no point in "arguing" with the judge once he or she has made her ruling. Its a fight you simply will not win. Becoming more argumentative is only going to cause you more problems later (even if you are clearly in the right). Instead, what we do in those situations is go back to the office and prepare a motion asking the Judge to reconsider the ruling, and provide copies of the case law, etc. that show we are right. The Judge always appreciates this much more because we are doing it in a way that is a) professional and b) doesn't "show up" the judge in the court room.
My experience has been that most GMs are the same way. At a certain point during the session, they have made their ruling and they want the game to move along. If you go up to them afterward (or even before the next session) and say "Hey, I see here on page 137 that it says XYZ. Is there something else you were looking at, or am I just missing something?" then they will respond a lot better. Speaking as a long time GM myself (though not yet in Pathfinder, D&D mostly) I can say that as much as we try to know all the rules, most GMs do not because there are simply too many rules for us to be able to remember all of them correctly all of the time. We try to do a good job on the rules that are going to come up most often, but then every so often you get some player with a crazy good idea to leap frog across a chasm from platform to platform and perform a bull rush at the end, and we are left scratching our heads. :)