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| 23 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. |
I was wondering if the draconic bloodrager bloodline is increased by the Dragon Disciple Blood of Dragons ability. RAW it seems that it does not since the ability references sorcerer levels. However, I believe it was mentioned during the playtest that items, feats, and abilities that affect a parent class's ability (bloodrager has barbarian and sorcerer as parent classes) would also affect the ACG class's abilities of the same name (bloodline in this case). This would mean it might be intended to also affect the Bloodrager despite the restrictive wording of the original ability (which would make a very interesting prestige class option).
Though I am primarily asking for a general ruling, I am also interested in the PFS ruling as well.
You'll get a better answer on the 14 as the acg willv e out then. Currently though dd does not advance bloodrager.
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You're not the only one to wonder about this, but we just don't know, until the print comes out.
I think the odds are good of getting an answer though, because the question has been asked several times during the playtest, and because they've been pivoting around on the matter of how to combine the original and ACG derivative classes.
SOON!
Funny thing is by RAW currently its actually a very strong (albeit potentially illegal soon) choice for most the other bloodrager bloodlines, and a relatively weak choice for the bloodlrager as you get a lot of abilities that won't stack with what you have. Hopefully they do a good job on making this an option, we shall know soon!
I don't have it yet, but one of my friends did. He said it says absolutely nothing about it! So at this time non-draconic bloodline bloodrager/DD is the way to go.
Isn't the Blood Rager counting as both a barbarian AND a sorcerer? If he has the Draconic Bloodline and cast spells as a sorcerer... then he meets all requirements.
I'm sure that the blood rager can enter any PrC that has a bloodline requirement.
Isn't the Blood Rager counting as both a barbarian AND a sorcerer? If he has the Draconic Bloodline and cast spells as a sorcerer... then he meets all requirements.
All references to parent classes were purged -- basically, they burned all the birth certificates. There would have to be specific language in the Bloodrager class description that references the sorcerer class for what you say above to be true. I think they do have language saying that barbarian and bloodrager rages are equivalent for prerequisite purposes, but I have no idea whether there is any such language for bloodlines.
Isn't the Blood Rager counting as both a barbarian AND a sorcerer? If he has the Draconic Bloodline and cast spells as a sorcerer... then he meets all requirements.
I'm sure that the blood rager can enter any PrC that has a bloodline requirement.
He meets the requirements to take the PRC, but does not need to be draconic bloodline because
Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.
If you want to take this route your actually much better off taking a bloodline that isn't draconic, as a lot of the abilities won't stack and will be lost. I'm actually now considering taking this with my bloodrager, as I had suspected they would change the PRC slightly as far as qualifying went I was refraining from it.
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Most heroes progress along a single path—choosing to become a fearsome fighter, pious cleric, or mighty wizard—but some are drawn to many roads. For them, it can be hard to find a balance between abilities offered by disparate classes. Hybrid classes solve this dilemma by blending features from two classes, adding rules to make them work seamlessly together. Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline)
This is what I found when Looking deeper then just the Class it's self
Most heroes progress along a single path—choosing to become a fearsome fighter, pious cleric, or mighty wizard—but some are drawn to many roads. For them, it can be hard to find a balance between abilities offered by disparate classes. Hybrid classes solve this dilemma by blending features from two classes, adding rules to make them work seamlessly together. Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline)This is what I found when Looking deeper then just the Class it's self
Good call. I'd say that probably means nondraconic bloodline bloodrager can't PRC DD.
i do hope they fix the soon because anyway you look at it the bloodrager was made for the DD, also i hope when and if addressed that you'll still gain bloodrage rounds per-day.
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Actually, dragon disciple isn't as good for a bloodrager as you'd think. Assuming the dragon disciple does advance the bloodrager bloodline, compared to a bloodrager 20, a bloodrager 10 / Dragon Disciple 10:
Gains
+3 Natural armour
+4 Str
+2 Con
+2 Int
+2 Will
Blindsense 60ft
Bite
+1 use breath weapon
+10ft fly speed
Form of Dragon II 2/day (outside rage)
Which all sounds great, but they also lose:
+4 Str (mighty bloodrage)
+4 Con (mighty bloodrage)
10 HP from HD decrease
3 points of BAB
+2 Will/+6 vs enchantments (raging, indomitable will and mighty bloodrage)
20 skill ranks (10 after Int boost)
3 points of DR/-
3 levels spellcasting
Tireless bloodrage
The ability to cast a spell on yourself when entering bloodrage
The dragon disciple bloodrager is more reliable when not raging, but overall significantly weaker while in a bloodrage. That tradeoff might be appealing to some, but if you're just interested in a combat character with draconic powers a straight bloodrager is better - or possibly a bloodrager with just a few DD levels. 4 levels gives you +4 strength and +2 natural armour plus a strong bite attack, which is a pretty good deal if you're natural weapons focused and/or not going to make it to level 20.
If the bloodlines don't stack, the bloodrager ends up getting duplicate low-level abilities while missing out on higher level bloodline improvements (eg +2 increase to natural armour, energy damage on claws, fly 60ft average instead of 90ft good, the capstone). That makes it a bad deal all around. For that reason I'd say the PRC really should advance the bloodrager bloodline.
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Oops, I checked the BAB and forgot the DD didn't get HD matching its BAB.
Don't think it makes a difference to the conclusion, though.
While raging a full bloodrager matches or exceeds the DD bonuses to Str/Con and will saves. You get more skills, and you're ahead by 3 BAB, DR, and spellcasting levels plus tireless rage and self-buffing as a free action when entering rage. You miss out on +3 Nat AC, blindsense, the bite, a use of your breath weapon, +10ft fly speed, and the ability to use Form of the Dragon when not raging.
Generally better in rage, not as good outside rage. Not a bad option but not the same dramatic effect as a sorcerer/DD - probably because bloodrager/DD seems like such an intuitively good match. The DD is designed to add some dragon-themed combat ability to an arcane caster (ideally sorc), and the draconic bloodrager already is a combat-capable sorc hybrid. So the actual difference between the two ends up being relatively subtle.
go 12 bloodrager and 8 DD, that is the good combo. Or compare a bloodrager 12 to a mix of bloodrager and 4-6 levels of DD. Those are some good deals.
The power of Dragon Disciple as a prestige class is tied to the power of the spellcasting that it picks up. Bloodrager spellcasting is very weak, and so a DD based on Bloodrager is a much weaker DD.