Well, its seems that its my turn to be the dm and I have a problem with the enemies. I'm trying to have lv 4-6 enemies.
Don't get me wrong, I can just summon anything and just go with the flow but I want my guys to be balance with the party.
So I ask the knowledge of the forum.
Here's my party and who I have problem to control:
Goblin, monk, melee = Can't get hit, every time you try, this dude just tug and roll but is weak against will saves but this one is my number 1 problem.
Human, Fighter/Barbarian Range = no threat
Dwarf, Bear Shaman, melee, caster = got a bear but no threat
Human, Paladin, melee, caster = can't use undead or else this dude gets bonus
Half-orc, Storm Sorcerer, caster = no threat
Human, Warrior, melee = no threat
Dwarf, barbarian, melee = party tank, rage nothing special
Human, Cavalier, melee = always on his horse and with his lance, got reach and got tons of dmg aka dmg dealer. Number 2 problem
Elf, Rogue(ninja), melee = no threat
to summons this up: Goblin monk can't get hit on, Paladin good against undead, Cavalier dmg dealer on his horse.
In my campaign they will meet enemies in forest, abandon city, half forest with half moat (water), underground tunnel, bridge over water, road and finally in the city but I got that covered with mages.
I can control the cavalier in the forest make him walk and indoors but the goblin will just tug and roll and paladin just don't use undead.
This particular thread is for Paizo's Pathfinder Beginner Box, are you using those rules (with obvious modifications) or are you a beginner DM looking for advice for the core Pathfinder RPG?
In any event, I'm happy to offer my advice.
First, if you have a party of nine players on a regular basis, you have problem--though have too many player's is ofter a problem would rather have than too few. I'd recommend maxing out your group at 5-6 PCs, but if nine works for your group, more power to you.
Next, I'm not sure you mention the level of the party? Since you are starting out, maybe it's 1st? I only ask because you say you're trying to target enemies at the 4th-5th level. While a party of nine might be able to take out one or two (4th-5th level) threats. There will likely be several party members one-hit killed in these combats, so you're probably better off multiple lower level monsters for your average fights and then throw the higher level fights occassionally.
Finally, you can use terrain and monster tactics to your advantage--definitely consider kobolds and other trap-setting creatures. Even though they may appear to be cannon-fodder, done right, these creatures are fair deadlier than nuisances.
Well first off. I think you are thinking about this really wrong. The game isn't about how to beat the players. You make it sound like a you vs them issue. If anything the two goals you have is make it fair and make it fun.
So with this thinking lets look at your party again.
Cavalier:
I would mix up encounters so that the players get caught in the open against enemy cavaliers/mounted enemies leading a band of footsoldiers. Let the cavalier have to head them off while the rest of the party fights the foot bound enemies. He gets to shine in his element and the rest of the party gets to do their thing with the foot troops. everyone is happy.
Paladin:
Have a band of evil clerics/cultists that raise a graveyard. The party tries to fight the cultists while the paladin smites the undead. He again is doing his thing and the rest of the party is doing their thing.
Or
Cultists summon a powerful shadow/ghost whatever so the paladin has to deal with that while the rest of the enemies.
Monk:
Well lets assume he can't be hit. Either take advantage of it by having party run into a pack of giants. maybe a bunch of ogres with a hill giant who gets obsessed with killing the monk giving the rest of the party time to fight the ogres. And the hill giant can take a number of hits without dying to the monk.
OR
Seductress who charms him so they have to get past her henchmen to stop her from carrying him off because her latest perfume potion needs heart of goblin. It's the latest thing in perfumes.
The point is that you don't have to avoid stuff because the party gets an advantage. Let them get their advantage occasionally.
Use multiple intelligent creatures that set traps, also that use spells. Grease, color spray...etc...are all very useful in the hands in an enemy.
How about a group of orcs? An orc witch with slumber will....very much even the field.
Also, swarms of rats. With plague.
Swarm of rats with plauge would fit perfectly in the city area, thank you!
Spoiler:
Hello CSPTT, welcome.
This particular thread is for Paizo's Pathfinder Beginner Box, are you using those rules (with obvious modifications) or are you a beginner DM looking for advice for the core Pathfinder RPG?
In any event, I'm happy to offer my advice.
First, if you have a party of nine players on a regular basis, you have problem--though have too many player's is ofter a problem would rather have than too few. I'd recommend maxing out your group at 5-6 PCs, but if nine works for your group, more power to you.
Next, I'm not sure you mention the level of the party? Since you are starting out, maybe it's 1st? I only ask because you say you're trying to target enemies at the 4th-5th level. While a party of nine might be able to take out one or two (4th-5th level) threats. There will likely be several party members one-hit killed in these combats, so you're probably better off multiple lower level monsters for your average fights and then throw the higher level fights occassionally.
Finally, you can use terrain and monster tactics to your advantage--definitely consider kobolds and other trap-setting creatures. Even though they may appear to be cannon-fodder, done right, these creatures are fair deadlier than nuisances.
Good luck!
Beginner DM looking for advice for the core Pathfinder RPG
Ah, mass with lower lvl then the big one that's sounds more better I always try to be as balance with everything.
Thank you!
Spoiler:
Well first off. I think you are thinking about this really wrong. The game isn't about how to beat the players. You make it sound like a you vs them issue. If anything the two goals you have is make it fair and make it fun.
So with this thinking lets look at your party again.
Cavalier:
I would mix up encounters so that the players get caught in the open against enemy cavaliers/mounted enemies leading a band of footsoldiers. Let the cavalier have to head them off while the rest of the party fights the foot bound enemies. He gets to shine in his element and the rest of the party gets to do their thing with the foot troops. everyone is happy.
Paladin:
Have a band of evil clerics/cultists that raise a graveyard. The party tries to fight the cultists while the paladin smites the undead. He again is doing his thing and the rest of the party is doing their thing.
Or
Cultists summon a powerful shadow/ghost whatever so the paladin has to deal with that while the rest of the enemies.
Monk:
Well lets assume he can't be hit. Either take advantage of it by having party run into a pack of giants. maybe a bunch of ogres with a hill giant who gets obsessed with killing the monk giving the rest of the party time to fight the ogres. And the hill giant can take a number of hits without dying to the monk.
OR
Seductress who charms him so they have to get past her henchmen to stop her from carrying him off because her latest perfume potion needs heart of goblin. It's the latest thing in perfumes.
The point is that you don't have to avoid stuff because the party gets an advantage. Let them get their advantage occasionally.
Sorry, I may have come out wrong. It was never my intention to beat the party or kill them, its that every game we have hade before me was giving everyone their bonus to the fullest and I never felt we were getting challenged.
It's me first time begin the DM after well couple of rounds some people don't want to be dm and some are just natural. But I feel like we aren't begin challenge that's all.
SO my plan was to balance it to make them wow we are now trying not to kill them just begin challenge. Sorry to repeat myself I just want to have a fun but challenging game experience with them.
Having 9 players you basicly have 2 options:
1: increase power of enemies
2: add more enemies.
With 9 players it near impossible to have a normal encounter challenge the party...
The problem with option 1 is that if you boost an enemy enough to ie. hit the monk, he will automatically hit any1 else in the party. Making an undead that can challenge the paladin Wil easily kill the rest of the party.
The problem with option 2 is that you as a gm needs more time to prepare the fights and the fights themselves will take more time.
As some1 stated higher up, remember to give each character an encounter once in a while where they single handed can clear it. Let them shine...
When designing challenging fights try to:
Have 1 enemy (or more) per PC
Make the enemies different level (confuse players)
Hit them with 2-3 waves of enemies, so they need to think about which resources they want to use (especially spellcasters)
Use terrain to the enemies advantage (home turf, they can use ambush, shoot from cover, shoot from hard accesable places etc.)
Hit them with conditions (witches and anti paladins are good at this)
Remember that both you and your players should have fun...
I think having a large party might be especially good for you, actually.
Normally the DM is the only one who has to worry about being crowd controlled...
Just make sure to keep things flowing with a "10 second rule" (you have to declare an action within 10s of your turn in combat, can't speak more than 10s in each round, etc).
That said, you will need *more* enemies, a good smattering of low level mooks supporting 2-4 equal level opponents.
Use layered attacks (a kobold druid using entangle behind a row of charging 1HD kobold rogues so they can't get to the archers easily) to drain them.
Repeatedly harassing a large party during the night can also be fun. Do they wake everyone up, or handle it with just the lookouts so the others can recover?
Vary the types of enemies to play to the members strengths works--maybe the paladin and cleric hold the door at the back against the streams of undead coming in to save the cultists in the previous scenario.
Have a villain who routinely sends the ranger's favored enemy type at the party and just gets irritated when they fail and sends HUGE numbers (for the sorceror/wizard to fireball) of weaklings.
They'll have fun if there's areas where their powers work well, this is the first key. You know how to neutralize them, but for hard fights you also need to make them multiple fronts.
Why multiple fronts?
-To keep the melee from tripping over themselves and not getting to act.
-Because two healers can keep up a single tank in a doorway almost indefinitely.
-If the casters are safe you're in trouble.
-Action economy, more fronts gives you more rolls to inflict more pain.
Ranged attackers will also be much more useful here, as there won't be as many of them in melee at first.
Having 9 players you basicly have 2 options:
1: increase power of enemies
2: add more enemies.
With 9 players it near impossible to have a normal encounter challenge the party...
The problem with option 1 is that if you boost an enemy enough to ie. hit the monk, he will automatically hit any1 else in the party. Making an undead that can challenge the paladin Wil easily kill the rest of the party.
The problem with option 2 is that you as a gm needs more time to prepare the fights and the fights themselves will take more time.
As some1 stated higher up, remember to give each character an encounter once in a while where they single handed can clear it. Let them shine...
When designing challenging fights try to:
Have 1 enemy (or more) per PC
Make the enemies different level (confuse players)
Hit them with 2-3 waves of enemies, so they need to think about which resources they want to use (especially spellcasters)
Use terrain to the enemies advantage (home turf, they can use ambush, shoot from cover, shoot from hard accesable places etc.)
Hit them with conditions (witches and anti paladins are good at this)
Remember that both you and your players should have fun...
It's true that having a large party would be a pain both time and everyone not having time to shine so problem 1 and 2 is something I need to rethink.
I like the wave and adding different lvl to confuse them.I'm playing god that in itself is fun but I do hope my players will have fun to.
Spoiler:
I think having a large party might be especially good for you, actually.
Normally the DM is the only one who has to worry about being crowd controlled...
Just make sure to keep things flowing with a "10 second rule" (you have to declare an action within 10s of your turn in combat, can't speak more than 10s in each round, etc).
That said, you will need *more* enemies, a good smattering of low level mooks supporting 2-4 equal level opponents.
Use layered attacks (a kobold druid using entangle behind a row of charging 1HD kobold rogues so they can't get to the archers easily) to drain them.
Repeatedly harassing a large party during the night can also be fun. Do they wake everyone up, or handle it with just the lookouts so the others can recover?
Vary the types of enemies to play to the members strengths works--maybe the paladin and cleric hold the door at the back against the streams of undead coming in to save the cultists in the previous scenario.
Have a villain who routinely sends the ranger's favored enemy type at the party and just gets irritated when they fail and sends HUGE numbers (for the sorceror/wizard to fireball) of weaklings.
They'll have fun if there's areas where their powers work well, this is the first key. You know how to neutralize them, but for hard fights you also need to make them multiple fronts.
Why multiple fronts?
-To keep the melee from tripping over themselves and not getting to act.
-Because two healers can keep up a single tank in a doorway almost indefinitely.
-If the casters are safe you're in trouble.
-Action economy, more fronts gives you more rolls to inflict more pain.
Ranged attackers will also be much more useful here, as there won't be as many of them in melee at first.
I have terrain control so multiple fronts is no issue but gorilla warfare is an interesting twist did't thought of that.
