I've got another post floating around about being in a campaign where the King has outlawed magic, but this is a bit different. So new thread for some questions.
If/When my current character (Kensai Magus) dies, I plan on making this guy. Artisan
Most likely a human, but was wondering if Dwarf would give me some better benefits for crafting items on a budget and any bonus traits etc... Plus Darkvision never hurts either.
My question and need for advice stems from this: I don't want to be useless in combat compared to the rest of my party. So since I'm going to have a 3/4 BAB and can wear armor and use simple weapons, I thought making him ranged focus with crossbow would be good.
Focused Shot, point blank shot, precise shot for combat feats and that will probably be it for all I'll commit to spending what will be left of my feats for attacking.
My need for advice is what are the best traits/feats for crafting (any race for that matter) that will either speed up, cheapen or boost my ability to craft mundane/alchemical/magical items?
However judging by what the Artisan class gets for decreasing craft times, my feats/traits might be best served to make them cheaper.
Also I'm leaning towards either specializing in the Crafter's Art of Weapons or Consumables. I'd appreciate opinions on that as well.
Not sure how much downtime I'd have to run a business in this campaign but what are everyone's thoughts on these types of shops?
Apothecary/Alchemist, Blacksmith/Armorer/Weapons or ?
Thanks in advance.
Just a thought - an elf gets longbow proficiency and Rapid Shot is worlds better than Focused Shot.
Crafter's Art: Consumables looks more interesting than Weapons. Wood is the art I'd choose though because the Wall of Wood lets you create effects which last and the discount can apply to many different categories of magic item.
When you get a homunculus familiar you may wish to have it take the Valet archetype.
I forgot about Elves getting a Longbow proficiency. Thanks for that.
Consumables does look more interesting than weapons by far.
Wood on the other hand is capable of providing lots of options to craft at discounted times, BUT I'll be playing in a desert setting for the most part and Trees springing up from nowhere would raise some questions.
It doesn't say how long they last when you create them. I'm very sure they're not permanent. Also they could be seen popping up from a distance as well, which could also raise suspicion towards us. Outlawed magic setting and all.
Also I had dismissed the idea of getting a Homunculus familiar due to the ugly little wretch looking like an ugly winged devil and nobody around is supposed to have such things. He didn't even have a method of hiding out like Imps/Quasits/Faerie Dragons etc... So I was concerned about where to keep this guys out of sight.
Now that you brought up the Valet Archetype I tempted to get him anyway.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rau1?3rd-party-idea-Boggle-Artisan
Just build the homunculus to look different.
Spark of Creation trait is both thematically and mechanically sound for your idea.
RaizielDragon wrote: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rau1?3rd-party-idea-Boggle-Artisan Oddly enough my son posted in that same thread using my computer lol.
I looked at that thread and saw things Eigengrau posted and thought WTH I didn't do that. Wow crazy...
Spark of Creation is on my must get list.
Is it possible to get the Homunculus to look different? Maybe make it into a Monkey or Falcon or something?
I'm going to just start off with making some masterwork mundane items to start off with to outfit the party and I.
Durable arrows for sure and those special Green Arrow/Hawkeye type ones for any boost we can get in an encounter.
Alchemical items as well. I'm hoping just to get chances to search for things to use in crafting like I had in online games.
Decided on Elf for race, Longbow and Rapier for weapons.
You should look at the Clockwork Familiar, though I confess I don't know how it would interact with your class abilities. You should be able to craft it, but it might not count as a proper "familiar". Perhaps your DM would allow a feat so that it could be so? Dunno. But, it's perfect for you. +2 to all your Craft skills, for example.
If you can get that going, consider applying the Valet familiar archetype to it. (Which would be insanely good for your build)
Lenthalia wrote: You should look at the Clockwork Familiar, though I confess I don't know how it would interact with your class abilities. You should be able to craft it, but it might not count as a proper "familiar". Perhaps your DM would allow a feat so that it could be so? Dunno. But, it's perfect for you. +2 to all your Craft skills, for example.
If you can get that going, consider applying the Valet familiar archetype to it. (Which would be insanely good for your build)
This would be amazing...
Problems though are how do I hide the fact I have him? Magic is outlawed so I can't have him running/flying around. Maybe a Tiny version of something like a Scorpion for instance that I can have masquerade as a Cloak Pin or Brooch on my character?
Wear a helm that has some kind of Bird motif with wings jutting out and pronounced head/beak/talons, that is actually a Clockwork Avian familiar riding along on my helm all pretending to be like a gargoyle on a roof lol. I like this idea better than Homunculus familiar.
Is there any reason someone would suspect that your tiny Clockwork Construct is magical at all? If it is Clockwork, it is wound up, so you should be able to pass it off as a completely non-magical mechanical creation.
I think unfortunately people would suspect magic. It takes magic to create any clockwork device. Plus if/when I run into any of the kingdoms guards who are trained to recognize magical devices etc... might figure it out. Best to have it concealed or disguised as a normal object/decoration.
Monkey familiar: a pet/animal companion. With hands for umd.
Get improved familiar after. Faerie dragon companion or an invisible quasit/imp.
Your clockwork familiar needn't travel around with you. He stays in your workshop/base; you only need him when you make things.
Lenthalia wrote: Your clockwork familiar needn't travel around with you. He stays in your workshop/base; you only need him when you make things. Excellent point. Can't believe that never registered with me.
This is a little unsettling... I can get a feat to create scrolls at 1st level and then use anyone's spell list to place a spell on the scroll. However the downside for me is that the DC for me to even use it is DC 21.
I'd have to roll a 12 or more to try and use it. At least it doesn't burn up if I fail lol. Looks like I'll take Brew Potions instead at 1st level.
You know, the Artisan pdf, which has a lot of stuff the pfsrd doesn't have(like variant homunculu0s types), is sold here on Paizo.
RaizielDragon wrote: Is there any reason someone would suspect that your tiny Clockwork Construct is magical at all? If it is Clockwork, it is wound up, so you should be able to pass it off as a completely non-magical mechanical creation. If you can't understand why it moves... it's magic.
Get a Cracked Magenta Prism asap. 800gp, it gives a +2 competence bonus to any skill, which you can change once a day.
It should let you do a DC 21 on a 10, so you can take 10.
Lenthalia wrote: Get a Cracked Magenta Prism asap. 800gp, it gives a +2 competence bonus to any skill, which you can change once a day.
It should let you do a DC 21 on a 10, so you can take 10.
That is pretty decent. Will have to get one. I am contemplating grabbing the trait Pragmatic Activator instead of Spark of Creation, to help with UMD checks.
No need. Get Clever Wordplay instead for UMD. It's a Social trait, so you can get that AND Spark of Creation.
Here's another thing you'll want to consider eventually, but it's far outside your reach for 1st level. Amazing Tools of Manufacture.
Lenthalia wrote: No need. Get Clever Wordplay instead for UMD. It's a Social trait, so you can get that AND Spark of Creation. That's awesome! Thanks.
First off, I take back what I said about the Ioun Stone. I was looking again at the Artisan class, and the bonus the Ioun Stone grants won't stack with the ones granted by your Magical Affinity class ability (both are competence bonuses).
What's your point buy/stat breakdown? I think we should be able to make you able to scribe scrolls at level 1.
1 skill point in Craft (Calligraphy) + 3 trained bonus + 1 competence from Magical Affinity class ability + 2 circumstance from masterwork calligraphy tools (55gp) +1 trait from Spark of Creation = +8. That doesn't include intelligence yet. Assuming you start with at least a 16 intelligence, and you should, then you have a +11 in the craft needed for scrolls, which is a 21 when you take 10.
Anyone in your group going to have access to the Crafter's Fortune spell?
Oh, and though you can't get it until level 3 minimum, the Deific Obedience feat, with Shelyn as your patron, will get you a +4 sacred bonus on ALL craft and perform checks, though you'll have to perform the little ritual described under her Obedience entry each day. If that works with your concept, then obviously it's amazing for you. Between that and all your other bonuses, you should basically not need to put more than a single rank in each craft skill.
Obviously that's no good if you're not using Golarion gods, though.
Lenthalia wrote: First off, I take back what I said about the Ioun Stone. I was looking again at the Artisan class, and the bonus the Ioun Stone grants won't stack with the ones granted by your Magical Affinity class ability (both are competence bonuses).
What's your point buy/stat breakdown? I think we should be able to make you able to scribe scrolls at level 1.
1 skill point in Craft (Calligraphy) + 3 trained bonus + 1 competence from Magical Affinity class ability + 2 circumstance from masterwork calligraphy tools (55gp) +1 trait from Spark of Creation = +8. That doesn't include intelligence yet. Assuming you start with at least a 16 intelligence, and you should, then you have a +11 in the craft needed for scrolls, which is a 21 when you take 10.
Anyone in your group going to have access to the Crafter's Fortune spell?
Crafting them is not the issue really, its the Use MagicDevice check to read and activate it. My UMD skill is 9.
I assume that 9 is:
1 rank
3 trained
1 competence (from Magical Affinity)
4? intelligence (due to Clever Wordplay)
A masterwork tool for UMD might work for another +2 circumstance bonus, though as a GM I would made it work something like a Pathfinder Chronicle, so you wouldn't be able to use it in battle. I'm imagining a "common magical items phrases" book.
Other than that, you may have to consider investing in Skill Focus (Use Magic Device), especially if you want to . If so, that makes the human race a very attractive choice, since you can use their Focused Study alternate racial trait to replace their single bonus feat at level 1 with three skill focus feats at levels 1, 8, 16. The first you could use for UMD for, the second two whatever you wished.
If you're not going to take Skill Focus at level 1, then your failure rate for using scrolls will be very high, and I don't see any obvious way around that. Even with skill focus and a mastetrwork tool, you're looking at a +14, which is still a 30% failure chance per use.
Found out the druid has scribe scroll. I should grab brew potion.
Fair, but don't forget that the druid will only be able to scribe druid spells, not all spells like you can.
True enough. I also thought about grabbing it at 2nd & just scribing druid only stuff and let him cast them, until i can get on my feet with UMD. Then i can start on every other spellcasting class. Bonus for me at level 1 is crafting potions of crafters fortune. But still bummed about not getting scrolls of divine favor, gravity bow, aspect of the falcon and shield at 1st.
oh and i forgot to add my racial +2 on INT I thoight i only got it for Dex.
I don't think it ultimately matters whether you take Scribe Scroll or Brew Potion first.
I would actually spend your 3rd level character feat on Craft Wondrous Items, rather than waiting to get it at 5th level. You can then immediately use your 1,000 magical essence to make yourself a Headband of Intellect +2.
Note that the Craftsman Technique 'Apprentice Wizard' should make you able to use any scroll at level 3, due to being able to take 10. If you aren't going to take that technique, then I again suggest Skill Focus (UMD). You don't need both, though. 'Efficient Enchanting', though, is a pretty unbelievably amazing Technique.
Did I mention this class is unbelievably broken? =D Wish I had a GM that would allow it.
Never mind about the Skill Focus (UMD). Instead use a feat to get Extra Craftsman Technique, and get Apprentice Wizard, which will make any UMD problems a thing of the past. You won't even need to max ranks in UMD with that Technique.
These Techniques are amazing, and most of your early feats should be spent on Extra Craftsman Technique, if you ask me.
Personally, I'd avoid that Artisan class - but thats mostly because I feel it is poorly designed. Most importantly, the ability to make spell trigger and spell completion items makes him, essentially, have access to every classes spells - this for someone who has no formal training in any of the classes spells.
Compared to other 'crafting' classes/archetypes, the Artisan is simply far too versatile in WHAT he can craft from an early level. It has many abilities of the Soul Forger, but gains them earlier AND can write scrolls, make wands, etc, without even knowing how to cast a spell.
CraziFuzzy - I agree. This is a pretty solid example of why there's no 3PP allowed at our table.
Lenthalia wrote: Never mind about the Skill Focus (UMD). Instead use a feat to get Extra Craftsman Technique, and get Apprentice Wizard, which will make any UMD problems a thing of the past. You won't even need to max ranks in UMD with that Technique.
These Techniques are amazing, and most of your early feats should be spent on Extra Craftsman Technique, if you ask me.
Couple things. That crafting I can do using my Magical Essence feature only allows 50% of the Magical Essence amount to be used on one item. Also it's a "use it or lose it" feature, every level the amount can't be hoarded and doesn't stack with the next levels amount.
Traits and taking a drawback as well and thinking Power-Hungry maybe for the drawback lol.
Traits. Clever Wordplay, Spark of Creation and Warrior of Old.
I originally wanted to spend a few feats to make me an Archer type outside of the crafting genius this class is. I still do want this actually. Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot. With the amount of combat/archery oriented spells I can get access to, I can be pretty decent. Not sure when the best time to take them would be.
So really I don't know when/what to take exactly as my 1st & 3rd level feats. My free craft feat I get from Artisan will be Brew Potion. My 2nd level Artisan feat should be ? what ? I think I should grab Craft Wondrous at 2nd.
My 1st level character feat might be Scribe Scroll. And 3rd level feat will be Extra Craftsman Technique so I can get both Apprentice Wizard and Efficient Enchanting. I planned on the Efficient Enchanting at 3rd anyway but didn't remember that there was the Extra Craftsman Technique in the Artisan book.
So now I'll be able at 1st level to Brew Potions of any 3rd level or lower spell that meets the rules for it AND be able to make some discounted & speedy Druid Scrolls for my Druid friend to use for us.
2nd level I can make Wondrous Items possibly, potions and scrolls (for Druid for now). 3rd level is where I think I'll be taking off so to speak. The Apprentice Wizard opens up that great big magical door of finally being able to use the Scrolls I create and at this point everything I make will be at a 30% discounted price too and 10% faster speed to craft it.
My combat will take a back burner which is very unfortunate for me. However by 3rd level I can console myself of my poor combat memories of the first few levels by making me something badass. I'll now be able to use Divine Favor, Gravity Bow, Aspect of the Falcon and most likely will have found some other archery or combat related spells to make into scrolls too.
5th level Artisan feat will be Craft Weapons/Armor of course and will most likely have decided then on whether I'll want Point Blank Shot or not. I might just go ahead and snag Craft Wand with my level 5 character feat. The only other crafting feat I'll want is Forge Ring after I get the Wand feat. So the rest of my Artisan freebies will be used to enhance my then current feats I think.
6th level will net me the Expert Enchanting, speeding up scrolls/potions by 35% and everything else by 25% in their craft times.
Its crazy on the number of options here and I still feel limited on it.
Eigengrau wrote: So really I don't know when/what to take exactly as my 1st & 3rd level feats. My free craft feat I get from Artisan will be Brew Potion. My 2nd level Artisan feat should be ? what ? I think I should grab Craft Wondrous at 2nd.
My 1st level character feat might be Scribe Scroll. And 3rd level feat will be Extra Craftsman Technique so I can get both Apprentice Wizard and Efficient Enchanting. I planned on the Efficient Enchanting at 3rd anyway but didn't remember that there was the Extra Craftsman Technique in the Artisan book.
I think this is an excellent plan for the first three levels.
After that, you can start using your feats for archery, if you like, though I'm not sure it's the best use of your feats. Honestly, given the absurdity of this class, I'd be spending it all on crafting stuff.
Your 7th level feat should be Improved Familiar; this will allow you to replace the standard Homunculus familiar you get with a Clockwork one, as discussed before, which in turn will let you become even more absurd at crafting.
Lenthalia wrote: Your 7th level feat should be Improved Familiar; this will allow you to replace the standard Homunculus familiar you get with a Clockwork one, as discussed before, which in turn will let you become even more absurd at crafting. In the Artisan book you can create this guy lol.
Indentured Servant
Unlike most types of homunculus, an indentured
servant is designed to be left behind, crafting magic
items while its master is out adventuring. An indentured
servant is crafted from clay mixed with
rare herbs and a pint of the creator’s blood. It looks
like a small, ugly person, jealously guarding a set of
tools. The materials to create the body cost 50 gp.
Size: Tiny
AC: 14, touch 14, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, +2 size)
HP: 11 (2d10)
Speed: 20 ft.,
Melee: hammer +3 (1d4–1)
Space 2-1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Str 8, Dex 15, Con —, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Attack: +2; CMB +2; CMD 11
Feats: Prodigy
Skills: Craft (any) +7, Craft (any) +5, Perception
+2
Languages: Common (cannot speak); telepathic
link
Special Abilities:
Master Craftsman (Su): An indentured
servant has the ability to create magic items
with its Craft or Profession skills. To do this,
the homunculus’s master must have the necessary
Item Creation feat, and must supply
the raw materials needed to begin creation.
However, it is the indentured servant itself
that works on the item, putting in the time and
making the final skill check to create the item.
Empathic Link (Su): An indentured servant
has a natural empathic link with its owner
that extends over any distance. This allows
the indentured servant to stay miles away from
its master without experiencing the hysteria
another homunculus would feel.
CL 7th: Construction Requirements: Craft
Construct, arcane eye, mirror image, minor
creation; Skill Craft (Pottery) or Craft
(Sculpture) DC 14.
Also for reference from the book too.
All homunculus share the following traits. If animated as a familiar, use the familiar rules where they differ.
Construct Traits: Every homunculus has a d10 Hit Dice, high BAB, and low saves. They have no Constitution score, and possess darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision, and all construct immunities.
Intelligent Construct: As a construct with an intelligence score, a homunculus gains 2 skill points per Hit Dice, and gain feats in the usual progression. A homunculus may select any feat it qualifies for, but its physical limitations might prevent it from using certain feats.
A homunculus has the same alignment as its
creator, and has no class skills. Note if animated as a familiar, it instead gains no feats, and its skill ranks are the same as its creator.
Modification: You may add Hit Dice to a homunculus at or after creation at a cost of 2,000 gp per Hit Dice. a homunculus may never have a number of Hit Dice greater than your caster level.
Telepathic Link: A homunculus cannot speak, but the process of creating one links it telepathically with its creator. A homunculus knows what its master knows and can convey to him or her everything it sees and
hears, out to a distance of 1,500 feet.
Creation: The process of crafting a homunculus and animating it always requires a pint of the owner’s blood, the Craft Construct feat or the homunculus class feature, and 1,000 gp in supplies (plus 2,000 per
extra Hit Die beyond 2.) Each homunculus has a caster level of at least 7. A homunculus’s body must be constructed before it may be made animated as homunculus. Further requirements are listed with each individual homunculus type.
Destruction: Whenever a homunculus is destroyed, its master takes 2d10 damage.
Geez.
At this point, I'm not sure it matters much what you do, given how powerful that class is.
The one thing that I had forgotten/didn't account for in my feats selection was Gunsmithing... I mean how the heck did I forget that?
We played today and ran into a NPC who was using a revolver of all things.
A early cap & ball style but still. I was like "holy crap I didn't even think about firearms in my skill set".
Anyway, I leveled up to 2nd level now and we play again on Tuesday.
I've already realized I need some way to gain quick cash in order to start making stuff. Not even talking about magic, but just regular stuff and alchemical items too.
We did have a neat concept come up, where I asked if there was any herbs/minerals etc around that I could attempt to harvest for my Alchemy. The GM let me do some checks and in a few hours time on our Caravan journey I was able to make another Alchemy check and my check equaled an amount of 24gp worth of alchemical crafting reagents. I get to subtract that number off whatever I try to craft when I decide on what I want. Kinda neat.
Ran into some Goblins who were horrible ranged attackers and the leader rode a Goblin Dog. Killed the dog & leader and got some basic equipment sized for a small creature, a couple gems and 20gp.
Killed 3 Dire Rats, 6 npc bandit type people (lots of useful equipment off of them, like shortbows/arrows, Light Warhorses w/gear, 5 vials of mysterious green goo like liquid. I was also able to hire off the caravan guard dude with promises of better pay to be our Henchman or Minion based on his level of participation in our activities. Gave him some better gear and 18gp for the month so far with a small portion of loot to him as well.
I also will be paid a fee of 200gp once I reach our main destination for some services rendered.
The henchman was a great story idea do to us having a guy who only sometimes shows up to play and isn't very experienced and usually plays only Ranger or Fighter. So I get to make a 2nd level fighter build out of the henchman that we all get to order around until the other player comes and uses him when he's here.
Well now I'm level 2 so I grabbed Craft Wondrous and I also can use Appraise skill (from Eye for Magic free feat) to identify that green goo vials and see what they are. I also got another 500gp worth of Magic Essence I can craft some scrolls/potions with.
Just need to find ways to make some quick cash.
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