So... a Hungry Ghost Monk? Or an Oracle 1/Sensei X Monk?
The Monk is a pretty solid class now, you just need to do some digging for the right options.
I am talking about a mystic martial artist whos class features work well together and have an established role in a group.Uhh... This is literally just a Monk. The whole point of the Brawler is to have a purely Ex martial artist.A Mysticism Focused Brawler to replace the Monk outright.
The Brawler seems to be pretty decent over all. Adding a few Su abilities would just make it all that much better.
Sounds like a monk to me.
Sounds like a monk to me.I am talking about a mystic martial artist whos class features work well together and have an established role in a group.Uhh... This is literally just a Monk. The whole point of the Brawler is to have a purely Ex martial artist.A Mysticism Focused Brawler to replace the Monk outright.
The Brawler seems to be pretty decent over all. Adding a few Su abilities would just make it all that much better.
Yes because increasing the movement speed works great with Flurry of Blows right? Or Abundant Step right?
Yes because increasing the movement speed works great with Flurry of Blows right? Or Abundant Step right?
While I absolutely agree that the core monk is useless, he's gotten a lot of good options post-CRB. If you don't mind doing a bit of prep work and scrounging through some books the monk can actually be a pretty decent class now. Apart from several good archetypes, Quinggong gives you viable alternatives to the useless class features and Pummeling charge solves the movement speed v Flurry of Blows paradox.
Yes because increasing the movement speed works great with Flurry of Blows right? Or Abundant Step right?Sounds like a monk to me.I am talking about a mystic martial artist whos class features work well together and have an established role in a group.Uhh... This is literally just a Monk. The whole point of the Brawler is to have a purely Ex martial artist.A Mysticism Focused Brawler to replace the Monk outright.
The Brawler seems to be pretty decent over all. Adding a few Su abilities would just make it all that much better.
You don't want a new class. You want an existing class to be more viable.
Yes because increasing the movement speed works great with Flurry of Blows right? Or Abundant Step right?While I absolutely agree that the core monk is useless, he's gotten a lot of good options post-CRB. If you don't mind doing a bit of prep work and scrounging through some books the monk can actually be a pretty decent class now. Apart from several good archetypes, Quinggong gives you viable alternatives to the useless class features and Pummeling charge solves the movement speed v Flurry of Blows paradox.
It definitely requires a ridiculous amount of dumpster diving though.
Best Monk right now is probably a MoMS 1 or 2/Brawler X, with Dragon and Pummeling Styles (Snake Style if you can work it in, that'd be where Monk 2 comes in handy. Turn on Dragon and Pummeling when you Charge in, then use Combat Style Master to switch to Snake once you're there).
Haven't played around with Sacred Fist yet though, could be rad.
You don't want a new class. You want an existing class to be more viable.Yes because increasing the movement speed works great with Flurry of Blows right? Or Abundant Step right?Sounds like a monk to me.I am talking about a mystic martial artist whos class features work well together and have an established role in a group.Uhh... This is literally just a Monk. The whole point of the Brawler is to have a purely Ex martial artist.A Mysticism Focused Brawler to replace the Monk outright.
The Brawler seems to be pretty decent over all. Adding a few Su abilities would just make it all that much better.
you are right, perhaps we could have a weapon then that uses the monks unarmed damage. Only Brass Knuckles could then it was errated out so the monk can never enhance his primary weapon.
Yes because increasing the movement speed works great with Flurry of Blows right? Or Abundant Step right?While I absolutely agree that the core monk is useless, he's gotten a lot of good options post-CRB. If you don't mind doing a bit of prep work and scrounging through some books the monk can actually be a pretty decent class now. Apart from several good archetypes, Quinggong gives you viable alternatives to the useless class features and Pummeling charge solves the movement speed v Flurry of Blows paradox.It definitely requires a ridiculous amount of dumpster diving though.
Best Monk right now is probably a MoMS 1 or 2/Brawler X, with Dragon and Pummeling Styles (Snake Style if you can work it in, that'd be where Monk 2 comes in handy. Turn on Dragon and Pummeling when you Charge in, then use Combat Style Master to switch to Snake once you're there).
Haven't played around with Sacred Fist yet though, could be rad.
Don't forget Horn of the Criosphinx! It has excellent synergy with Pummeling Charge.
And yeah, the Sacred Fist has a lot of potential. I'm really curious to see one of those in action.
you are right, perhaps we could have a weapon then that uses the monks unarmed damage. Only Brass Knuckles could then it was errated out so the monk can never enhance his primary weapon.
The MoMS X/brawler Y build Rynjin mentioned above would be able to do this, brawlers can use their unarmed strike damage progression (-5) with close weapons. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a monk feat or archetype who borrows this ability somewhere down the line.
But you should not have to only DIP monk to get something useful. I don't see people Dipping any other class because thats all they are useful for.
But you should not have to only DIP monk to get something useful. I don't see people Dipping any other class because thats all they are useful for.
You don't have to DIP monk to do anything. You can make a perfectly viable character taking nothing but monk levels, provided you pick the right archetype and feats. What you asked for was specifically a way to get monk's unarmed damage with monk weapons - that is entirely possible with the Brawler class.
If you want to go unarmed the Monk has plenty of options, if you want to play less the mystical martial arts practitioner and more of a 'thug' or boxer who uses close weapons like brass knuckles then Brawler's probably a better fit. That said, like I mentioned earlier I wouldn't be surprised if there is a feat or archetype added that lets monks pick up something similar to the Brawler's Close Weapon Mastery - possibly changed to work with Monk weapons rather than Close weapons.
And I see tons of people taking level dips to pick something nice from other classes. Two levels of Paladin for Divine Grace used to be very popular but more recently one level of Cleric for Divine Protection does the same thing past level 5, one level of Swashbuckler makes Slashing Grace come online at level 1 with any one-handed slashing weapon, 1 level of Unarmed Fighter for style feats or indeed even plain fighter for proficiency and bonus feats...
But you should not have to only DIP monk to get something useful. I don't see people Dipping any other class because thats all they are useful for.
The Monk is very good on its own as long as you pick out the right archetypes. The aforementioned Oracle 1/Sensei X is seriously a tier 3 class; you're based 100% on wisdom and charisma, have stellar defenses, Inspire Courage to make you a strong team player, and the skills to be a great party face.
Back to the thread topic ("After ACG: Do you still miss a class?"): Comparing Summoner to Conjurer Wizard, we see a relationship that is not present for the other Arcane Schools. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure how to implement specialist Arcane Spellcasters for the other schools, because none of the other Arcane Schools have a nice I - IX progression of spells like Summon Monster, so you'd either have to come up with such a progression, or get more creative. (Actually, Summoner gets a little bit creative to round out the Summon Monster progression with Gate, although I would have liked to have seen it being extended to Summon Monster X, which could summon more powerful monsters than Summon Monster IX, or summon more monsters from the Summon Monster IX or VIII lists.) Also need to come up with names for some of them. Here's my shot at it (including the existing Summoner) -- this isn't particularly good, so see if you can come up with some better names:
Abjuration: Warder
Conjuration: Summoner (stays as is, or at most gets small tweaks)
Diviner: Seer
Enchantment: Charmer (unfortunately, WotC already took Beguiler)
Evocation: Invoker (might sound too close to Evoker, the specialist Wizard)
Illusion: Glamerer
Necromancy: Reanimator (pro-undead version; WotC already took Dread Necromancer)/Reposer (anti-undead version)
Transmuter: Alterationist
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Even though the thread was necro'd, I wanted to toss one out there... and it is a bit of a curve ball...
Anyone else remember the Noble from the Star Wars d20 game? Basically, it was an RP class. They had some skills and did a lot of social stuff. They could pull allies out of nowhere and a few other things. In terms of combat ability, it was kind of awful, but it was different. And I like different.
In PF, it could be the only 1/2 BAB non-magic class, but it would get a bunch of skills and some unique uses for Diplomacy and Bluff. Or just use the basic flavor and expand from there.
A few other quick ideas:
-A Wuxia style character. Kind of like a monk, but with weapons. Could do the floaty fighting you see in movies like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero. There might be a monk archetype that I am unaware of, but I don't think you can do this.
-Updated version of the Samurai from 3.5. While actually less cool than the Samurai we got, the old version had this weird mechanic where they continually increased the power of their weapon. So long as they didn't change their weapon, it would naturally increase in Enhancement bonus and magical effect. So, from going from level 1 to level 2, the katana instantly became a +1 Katana and later it would be a +2, etc. It was really the only thing the 3.5 class got, but maybe update it with some Pathfinder-ness to make it less boring. The idea of being level 20 and being like "This is the same sword I started with 20 levels ago" is kind of awesome.
Even though the thread was necro'd, I wanted to toss one out there... and it is a bit of a curve ball...
Anyone else remember the Noble from the Star Wars d20 game? Basically, it was an RP class. They had some skills and did a lot of social stuff. They could pull allies out of nowhere and a few other things. In terms of combat ability, it was kind of awful, but it was different. And I like different.
With this thought (although not the Star Wars d20 specific part) I called for PC-upgraded Aristocrat and Expert in this post above, including some Archetypes for your enjoyment.
In PF, it could be the only 1/2 BAB non-magic class, but it would get a bunch of skills and some unique uses for Diplomacy and Bluff. Or just use the basic flavor and expand from there.
Given the frequency of needing to be ready for a fight in much of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, 3/4 BAB might actually fit okay. Now if Golarion's society were just a little bit more civilized, you might be right in calling for 1/2 BAB. (Actually, Golarion is sort of on the hairy edge -- judging by the commonly available technology other than guns, the closest Earth period seems to be in the 1700s -- definitely past Medieval, except that the guns haven't taken over yet.)
A few other quick ideas:
-A Wuxia style character. Kind of like a monk, but with weapons. {. . .}
Doesn't Sohei Monk sort of do what you want?
Anyone else remember the Noble from the Star Wars d20 game? Basically, it was an RP class. They had some skills and did a lot of social stuff. They could pull allies out of nowhere and a few other things. In terms of combat ability, it was kind of awful, but it was different. And I like different.
In 3.X, the source book for Dragonlance had a new base class: the noble. It converts seamlessly into Pathfinder, but I have to say it's extremely underpowered and could really use a boost...but it seems to be what you're looking for.
My vote for Holy Warriors of various alignments (not just Paladin/Antipaladin) here.
I really wish the Champion of the Faith was purely charisma based, it would work just fine as an any alignment Paladin if it didn't still have to invest in wisdom.
Artificer...
Maybe a Bard taken to 9th level, or a class like the Bard class.
Like maybe a Gypsy class that is a fusion of the witch and the bard.
A class with fortune telling and lots of preemptive focus as well as being quick with his tongue and skilled with a blade. The ultimate gish in a can. One with real power.
I really wish the Champion of the Faith was purely charisma based, it would work just fine as an any alignment Paladin if it didn't still have to invest in wisdom.
Hey now, it's not bad design, it's a retro throwback. Ya know. To the 3.5 Paladin that everyone love just so very very much.
I just want my Stormlord of Talos from Forgotten Realms. I know there's a Storm caller prestige class but it doesn't fit with the Stormlord.
The best part of being a Stormlord was you came out of a cleric base class but the abilities let you put electrical charges that stack on your weapons. So much fun. Definitely let your cleric step up and inflict some damage. You can find the old Stormlord rules here:
http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Stormlord_of_Talos
You would think there would be a prestige class of Gozreh that closely mirrors this or an archetype of druid/cleric that lets you do this but not that I have found.
In addition to Holy Warriors (Paladin, Antipaladin, and any other alignment equivalents that might be introduced in the future), it would be cool to have Holy Rogues (yes, I know of Sanctified Rogue, but this barely does anything different from a normal Rogue).
In addition to Holy Warriors (Paladin, Antipaladin, and any other alignment equivalents that might be introduced in the future), it would be cool to have Holy Rogues (yes, I know of Sanctified Rogue, but this barely does anything different from a normal Rogue).
I think Inquisitor fills that niche nicely.
I think Inquisitor fills that niche nicely.In addition to Holy Warriors (Paladin, Antipaladin, and any other alignment equivalents that might be introduced in the future), it would be cool to have Holy Rogues (yes, I know of Sanctified Rogue, but this barely does anything different from a normal Rogue).
Sanctified Slayer wants to know if you expected the Inquisition. (You didn't.)
In addition to Holy Warriors (Paladin, Antipaladin, and any other alignment equivalents that might be introduced in the future), it would be cool to have Holy Rogues (yes, I know of Sanctified Rogue, but this barely does anything different from a normal Rogue).
I think Inquisitor fills that niche nicely.
Sanctified Slayer wants to know if you expected the Inquisition. (You didn't.)
Inquisitor (and Warpriest, if they ever debug the ACG) fills the Holy Warrior/Priest hybrid role nicely, but doesn't really substitute for a strongly martial Holy Warrior like the Paladin and Antipaladin, and while Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer or otherwise) can be a sort of hybrid Holy Rogue/Priest, likewise neither of them really fills the more strongly Rogueish/less spellcasting oriented Holy Rogue role fully. For starters, if you want to sneak in and actually rescue people of your faith (or more broadly, sneak in and rescue oppressed people), or even just to sneak in and retrieve information incriminating {insert dystopian regime}, rather than just killing enemies of the faith, it would help to have Disable Device as a class skill.
For starters, if you want to sneak in and actually rescue people of your faith (or more broadly, sneak in and rescue oppressed people), or even just to sneak in and retrieve information incriminating {insert dystopian regime}, rather than just killing enemies of the faith, it would help to have Disable Device as a class skill.
Sanctified Slayer has got this thanks to Slayer Talents:
Trapfinding: The slayer gains Disable Device as a class skill. The slayer also gains the trapfinding and trap sense rogue abilities, using his slayer level as his effective rogue level.
Bam! Disable Device as a class skill done (keep in mind that's really just a +3 bonus in PF) also Rogue Trapfinding *and* Trap Sense. You do have to wait til 8th, but honestly you shouldn't be running into magical traps to much earlier then that.
There's also a +1 and also a Class Skill trait for every skill now (or near enough), in some cases several with different flavors.
A true shapeshifter would be my number one pick.
I would also like to see:
- a primarily intelligence and skills-based class that is workable and isn't tied to thievery, magic use, alchemy, etc.
- a healer class beyond clerics
- a trickster class
There's also a +1 and also a Class Skill trait for every skill now (or near enough), in some cases several with different flavors.
Is there one for Fly now that isn't related to Irori?
I believe Wisdom of the Flesh is the only trait to pick up Fly.I would like to see more alchemy classes, like a 9th level alchemy based class or a 4th level with full BAB.
A true shapeshifter would be my number one pick.I would also like to see:
- a primarily intelligence and skills-based class that is workable and isn't tied to thievery, magic use, alchemy, etc.
{. . .}
Sleuth (Investigator Archetype that trades out Alchemy) does this. Old-style Investigator (Rogue Archetype) tries to do this, although arguably doesn't do a very good job. Lore Warden (Fighter Archetype) sort of does this (although it's probably a bit of a shoehorn for some of what you want, but on the other hand is a good martial chassis if you are so inclined). Pathfinder Chronicler (Prestige Class) doesn't specifically do this, but lends itself to the task.
i miss the rogue.
oh i mean sure they have the NPC class with that name, but i want to play a rogue, not some knockoff with a shinier and more competent coat of paint.
i want to cut a mountain in half, without magic.
That's easy. Become a stone mason. Profession (stone mason).
One of the few rich travelling guilds that could afford (and needed) a permanently employed blacksmith (for maintenance of their tools) and were powerfull enough to demand pay on a four day basis!! (historical facts!!)
As a missing class I would like to see some shamanic type of savage cleric like the barbarian is the savage type of fighter.
I'd like to see some shaman that has a minutely better BAB then the cleric (like 3/4) and less armour (light max), with some spiritual totem like 'diety' that grants the shaman spells. With 'domain' spells that are obviously elemental, natural or spiritual in nature. No Channeling, but a extended 'domain' spell territory (both in some extra slots as well as more then one spell). As well as more skillpoints per level (like 4 or 5 maybe) to represent the special position of the shaman in a tribe. Maybe some special pool of skills the shaman can choose from instead of extra skill points (3 free skills and 2 pool skills?). A pool containing thing like heal, proffession (herbalist), Knowledge (nature), perception, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (planes).
Pool skills are off course class skill when pool points are expended for them.
I am not sure whether or not to allow spontaneous casting.
So in short a barbaric type of cleric that has no channeling, but slightly increased domain spells. And slightly increased combat at the cost of armour (no medium).
I have not considered unbalanced combinations yet so feel free to attend me to them.
I know I posted before, but here's an update:
- Artificer/Tinkerer/Gadgeteer: a character who builds stuff that mimics spells.
- Swordsage/Crusader/Warblade: a fighter with essentially a spell list... but these spells are actually fiction-inspired special moves that deal a set amount of damage, but are usuable at will or requires a quick recharge time.
- More arcane spellcaster school splits: take the summoner, but change everything to match another school.
- Combat shapeshifter: you know the Totemist from Magic of Incarnum? How about a PF version?
@Snowleopard: Sounds like you want the Shaman from the Advanced Class Guide. Just watch out for changes due to Errata (of which quite a bit will be needed).
@Snowleopard: Sounds like you want the Shaman from the Advanced Class Guide. Just watch out for changes due to Errata (of which quite a bit will be needed).
im still saddened that they removed the shaman's wis-to-AC dex replacer via nature's whispers (the playtest shaman one, not the oracle one).
@Snowleopard: Sounds like you want the Shaman from the Advanced Class Guide. Just watch out for changes due to Errata (of which quite a bit will be needed).
That type is a druid and I would prefer a more clerical type.
Somebody actually had the idea to make Commoner a playable Class. THIS is the Class for Homer Simpson.
I know this is sort of Thread revival but I was wondering why on earth was the Bard not given an Archetype reflecting the Swashbuckler Deeds?
I mean Kata Monk... we got a monk who uses Swashbuckler deeds but not the other iconic rapier wielding class?
we didn't get anything for rogues with any of panache/deeds, studied combat/strike, favored target, or brawler feat-grabbing--all which would have been very welcome.
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Hey everyone - hopefully you'll indulge me, but I wanted to mention that a number of the class concepts that have come up in this thread are already available in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press!. If you use non-Paizo material in your game, please give the book a look!
A number of folks have said they want a martial, non-caster shapeshifter. Take a look at the skin-changer, a variant of the spell-less ranger class that trades out things like hunter's bond and combat styles for a druid-like animal shape ability right from 1st level and a specialized animal combat style
For those looking for a full 20 level Mystic Theurge style arcane/divine base class, the New Path Compendium presents the theurge!
Looking for a spontaneous casting version of the druid, with abilities and flavor like the sorcerer or oracle - the NPC has the shaman, complete with totem secrets and an animal spirit guide.
Looking for a class a bit like the warlock, a martial caster with energy blasts which can be modified as he increases in level? Check out the battle scion - the ultimate martial blaster. :)
The NPC has received 11 5-star reviews, including one from Endzeitgeist himself and there's a lot of other good stuff including a number of other new classes (including the spell-less ranger, white necromancer, elven archer, and savant) so please check it out. Those of you looking for unrealized Pathfinder RPG classes might find that the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press! is just what the doctor ordered! :)
Sorry for the slight thread necro, but for those commenting on wanting an arcane trickster base class, please consider taking a gander at the just-released New Paths 8: The Trickster from Kobold Press!
The class has proven to be rather popular so far (4 5-star reviews!) ... I hope everyone checks it out! :)