Crowbar and Locked Passage


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Can the second part of the Crowbar power "or check to defeat a barrier with either the Lock or Obstacle trait" be used to add a die to the Dex/Disable check on the Locked Passage? This would make it 1 additional die against a target 8, instead of 1 additional die against the Str/Melee target of 16. The first part specifically says noncombat Strength check, but the second part leaves that out.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Assuming Locked Passage has the lock or obstacle trait, then yes. The second circumstance doesn't care which skill you are using, just that you are trying to defeat a barrier with the required trait.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yes. Following the metarule of "Cards do what they say, and don't do what they don't say", just read your quoted passage, ignoring the first bit before the or. Are you making a check against a barrier with Lock or Obstacle? If so, you get an extra die of whatever you are rolling (likely Dex or Disable).


Thanks. That was the way we played it, but it just felt weird using a crowbar to dexteriously pick the lock. :)


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KaosThunder wrote:
Thanks. That was the way we played it, but it just felt weird using a crowbar to dexteriously pick the lock. :)

Heh, fair enough. Sometimes when playing a card in a certain situation seems strange, I might make up a joke for how the item/ally/whatever helps the situation. (I remember deciding that Lem used his Masterwork Tools to lock the Shopkeeper's Daughter in the bathroom while he ran away from the awkward situation and kept adventuring.) Perhaps in Merisel's hands, the crowbar is used to bump the lock in just the right spot to have it pop open, instead of simply using it to pry the door. But that really only matters if you care about making a narrative, however ridiculous it may be.


KaosThunder wrote:
Thanks. That was the way we played it, but it just felt weird using a crowbar to dexteriously pick the lock. :)

Is it strange ? The Shopkeepers's Daughter also has the Obstacle trait...


Zoltán Mészáros wrote:
KaosThunder wrote:
Thanks. That was the way we played it, but it just felt weird using a crowbar to dexteriously pick the lock. :)
Is it strange ? The Shopkeepers's Daughter also has the Obstacle trait...

I think that if you use a crowbar to defeat the Shopkeeper's Daughter, you should immediately have to summon and encounter an "angry shopkeeper" enemy...


Or the city watch...

We try to make a narrative with all of it because that is what sets this game apart from some of the others we play. With the advancement and persistence of the characters, it gives it a much more epic feel. But it does lead to some interesting situations, such as Kyra failing a check against the Shopkeeper's Daughter in the Treacherous Cave (insert all manner of innuendo here).

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

MightyJim wrote:
Zoltán Mészáros wrote:
KaosThunder wrote:
Thanks. That was the way we played it, but it just felt weird using a crowbar to dexteriously pick the lock. :)
Is it strange ? The Shopkeepers's Daughter also has the Obstacle trait...
I think that if you use a crowbar to defeat the Shopkeeper's Daughter, you should immediately have to summon and encounter an "angry shopkeeper" enemy...

In case it helps inspire homebrew flavor, Ven Vinder (an ally card) is the shopkeeper in question.


First World Bard wrote:
I remember deciding that Lem used his Masterwork Tools to lock the Shopkeeper's Daughter in the bathroom while he ran away from the awkward situation and kept adventuring.

Your gaming group is FAR more mature than mine if that's how you explain it.


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Shopkeeper's Daughter Encounter:

Pick a PC, preferably one who fancies himself a ladies’ man or a popular fellow (while this encounter assumes the PC is a male, it can just as easily work for a female PC). The combination of this character’s good looks, fame, and heroic qualities sends ripples through town, and now and then the PCs should overhear rumors and whispers about this PC’s “availability.” The PC should catch local young women giggling or blushing as he walks by, and he might receive a few anonymous love letters or other minor trinkets left as gifts at wherever he’s been staying the night.

At some point before these idle fancies have a chance to develop into real relationships, one of Sandpoint’s most brazen citizens makes her move. Daughter of the owner of the Sandpoint General Store, SHAYLISS VINDER (CN female human commoner 1) is certainly an attractive young woman, but it’s her older sister who’s been in the gossip lately. Rumor holds that Katrine Vinder’s been “shacking up” with one of the workers at the lumber mill, and her overly protective father’s been up in arms about it.

So when Shayliss bashfully approaches a PC, her claim that her father has been too distracted with her sister’s private life to keep up with the store’s pest problem should seem plausible. Shayliss explains that the store has rats. Why, just yesterday, she’s sure she saw one the size of a goblin hiding behind a barrel at the far end of the basement. Her father doesn’t believe her, but she knows he’s just more distracted by what Katrine might or might not be up to at the lumber mill. And since there’s this handy new hero in town, well, Shayliss just thought maybe said hero could come back with her to kill a few rats in the store’s basement. She stresses that there’s not many rats, certainly not enough to warrant having more than one hero to take care of them. If other PCs insist on coming along, she throws her hands up in the air in disgust and says, “Never mind, I’ll take care of them some other way” and walks off in a huff, hoping her hero comes with her alone anyway. If he doesn’t, she simply approaches him again when he’s alone and repeats her request.

Of course, there are no rats in the basement. Shayliss is, if anything, even more of a trouble-seeker than her sister, something that a DC 20 Diplomacy or Knowledge (local) check can warn a PC about. Any refusal to accompany flirtatious Shayliss back to the store must be handled delicately; without a successful Bluff check (against her Sense Motive +0) or a DC 20 Diplomacy check, her infatuation with the PC might quickly turn into bitter hate, and she could become a recurring foil as she spreads slanderous rumors about the PC and his friends.

Shayliss reveals her true intentions as soon as she has her chosen PC alone in the basement of her father’s store; her bodice comes off and she slides herself into an embrace as she tries to guide the PC over to a convenient cot someone’s set up in the back of the room.

Whatever develops from this awkward interlude, Shayliss’ father Ven Vinder is destined to head down into the basement not long after Shayliss makes her move. Allow the PC a DC 15 Perception check to hear Ven coming down the stairs at the far end of the basement. If the PC fails to notice Ven’s approach, he certainly will when the shopkeep finds the PC and his daughter, roars in rage, and threatens the PC with his large and meaty fists.


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Yea, Shopkeeper's Daughter! AKA, Emma Stone


The Crowbar text says "Reveal this card to add 1 die to YOUR noncombat Strength check or check to defeat a barrier ....etc"

My belief is that the card should be understood as "YOUR noncombat Strength check or YOUR check to defeat a barrier ....etc" because this is grammatically correct.

Perhaps the use of a comma in the actual text after YOUR might have helped clarify this - but as it reads to me it is quite clear what the intention is)

A friend argues that the second part refers to ANYONE'S check...."

Has anyone come across this problem before?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

If your friend was right, it would have clearly said the second part was for any check. Sounds like he's trying to nitpick the wording (and unsuccessfully so) to benefit where it shouldn't.

Community Manager

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Removed a couple of tasteless posts. Please be mindful of our Community Guidelines.

Community & Digital Content Director

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Removed another post. It is not acceptable under any circumstance to make lewd commentary about Paizo staff on our website at any point in time.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Apologizing. Wasn't at all neither the case nor the intention. Really. Thanks again for enforcing the Community Guidelines.


Likewise, following another's lead with a post of my own. I agree it was very tasteless, and I apologize for it.


Andrew L Klein wrote:
If your friend was right, it would have clearly said the second part was for any check. Sounds like he's trying to nitpick the wording (and unsuccessfully so) to benefit where it shouldn't.

Thanks, that's what I thought!

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