As much as I am excited for the Iron gods AP, I would be ten times more interesting in a Distant Worlds AP especially if we get Castrovel, Akiton, and Verces together in the AP.
I was expecting Galt.I know this girl, and she told me that she heard from her cousin on Facebook that some guy who played with this other guy who told him he heard from someone on Twitter that this girl told him that the next AP after Giantslayer was going to ** spoiler omitted **I really expected an explosive runes joke here.
thats what they call The Shamayalan Twist:)
Galt was too obvious:)but yes was supposed to be
Galt is still number one for me:) i was a big backer for Mummy's Mask and Skull & Shackles so i that gives me hope, in that we have the same tastes, i believe its more a matter of When and not If:)
What I predict (not necessarily what I want) is that after all these themed APS, they'll be returning to their roots with something fairly generic/vanilla yet something attention getting/iconic. That means Varisia (with all the recent adventure paths that have roamed far afield, the Varisia to everything else is a bit low compered to what I perceive is their usual standard.)
Now if Runelords and mythic have been called out as not being it, that leaves us a few options. And the first thing that comes to mind is dragons. Paizo has long held off on overusing the dragon, so I can imagine a whole dragon AP would probably be off the shelf. However, if we made it about one dragon that might be a thing. And the biggest bad dragon I can think about in the area
However, I don't think this dragon will return in the way people might expect- that'd be too close to Shattered Star. Instead we'd see something more closely connected to Zon-Kuthon (and therefore possibly the shadow plane.) Part of the kicker of this AP may be the revelation of (or hinting at) where Dou-Bral went when he changed. (Perhaps a support article in #100?).
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In another thread today Mr. Jacobs said the next AP would also be traditional fantasy. So nothing too out there, which make sense considering the last several they would want to keep it grounded for a little while.
Maybe we are going to get our much-needed Absalom AP finally.
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To be honest, I think that Paizo didn't do enough with Drow and Darklands in general. I would love to see a whole AP along the lines of old Ultima Underworld games, where we can explore various themes and tropes of an underground setting. Also, I fully understand why Paizo didn't wanted to give the players an option to play the Drow, but that was way back when PF was trying to make itself recognizable and different than D&D (although, in my book - same thing). I think that we are ready for dark elf PCs.
What I predict (not necessarily what I want) is that after all these themed APS, they'll be returning to their roots with something fairly generic/vanilla yet something attention getting/iconic. That means Varisia (with all the recent adventure paths that have roamed far afield, the Varisia to everything else is a bit low compered to what I perceive is their usual standard.)
Now if Runelords and mythic have been called out as not being it, that leaves us a few options. And the first thing that comes to mind is dragons. Paizo has long held off on overusing the dragon, so I can imagine a whole dragon AP would probably be off the shelf.
There are a lot of classics that have been largely untouched. Dragons are classic enemies, and at this point they are notable by their relative absence. The next path will contain issue 100, and a dragon themed AP would be pretty badass. As for Varisia... I agree. In fact, I think it might start out in Sandpoint again. It would be good to see us go where we began for such an important milestone.
Relative absence of dragons?
In Book 2 of Reign of Winter, you have the PCs facing off against a Dragon in charge of Whitethrone's defense. In Book 3 there are two dragons in the region that could be included in the game should the GM choose to do so. And in Book 4, you go to a region where there are a multitude of intelligent dragonkin you can possibly ride, and the big boss of that book is another dragon.
I'm not sure where you get this "relative lack of dragons" from. They're there.
Yeah, they're there, but they're not really there. In only one of those instances, is the Dragon really the 'Big Bad'. Heck, the one in Dragon's Demand was more the Big Bad than those in Reign of Winter.
That's like claiming Goblins aren't really there because they're not the Big Bad of an AP.
I think what Irnkk is getting at is while their are Dragons in APs they are almost always Minions or being manipulated by the APs BBEG. they are never themselves the BBEG of the AP.
furthermore Goblins were always just low level fodder Dragons have always been either the Penultimate bad guy or THE bad guy, although i have limited experience with old school modules so not sure if they were like that in the modules too or if it was my brothers* doing in that regard
*all my brothers are adventure and setting snobs, they will not play in either published settings or adventures.
The bigger issue with Kazavon or some other dragon as the book 6 BBEG is, well, the book 6 BBEG needs to be in the CR 17 to 20 range - parties are normally level 16ish, and by normal guidelines the final battle won't exceed ECL +4 or +5.
Otherwise, CR 23+ opponents are strictly the realm of a mythic campaign or the "after" campaign.
Which means we're not going to see a Book 6 throwdown with a great wyrm in the normal scope of a non-mythic AP (or if we do, it's going to be a white dragon, because of CR guidelines).
I think Yrax, Lord of the Howling Storm (I love that title), is the most important dragon to actually show up in an AP, even if Marrowgrath from Carrion Crown, what-his-name from Runelords (dude almost caused a TPK in my game), or the Lesser Jabberwocky are technically stronger.
There's probably some neat dragon I'm overlooking, though; I'm only familiar with a few of the APs.
Most types of dragons that are at great wyrm level are lower then CR23.
Chromatic
Black(CR19)
Blue(CR21)
Green(CR20)
Red(CR22)
White(CR18)
Metallic
Brass(CR19)
Bronze(CR21)
Copper(CR20)
Gold(CR23)
Silver(CR22)
Primal
Brine(19)
Cloud(21)
Crystal(18)
Magma(CR20)
Umbral(CR22)
Imperial
Forest(CR22)
Sea(CR20)
Sky(CR21)
Sovereign(CR23)
Underworld(CR19)
Outer
Lunar(CR21)
Solar(CR21)
Time(CR23)
Void(CR21)
Vortex(CR22)
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I think we're going to get an urban adventure Council of Thieves-type adventure after Giantslayer. I'm betting it takes place in Absalom and will involve discovering the fate of Pathfinder Chronicle #5.
We know that the next AP will be "traditional fantasy," but I'm going to assume that the Paizo staff will also be looking to something that's traditional while also different enough from Giantslayer! to be really interesting.
There's a lot of stuff based around Absalom in Occult Mysteries. Some of that indirectly supports Emerald Spire, but a lot of the stuff there focuses on what's happening underneath the city. Specifically, it lets us know that there might be something in Pathfinder Chronicle #5 that relates to the Absalom lodge's underground holdings or some secret that the Decemvirate wants kept quiet.
My guess is the the first AP involves the PCs finding Chronicle #5 or some shard of information about it and then delving beneath the city. There are two organizations with known ties under Absalom, the Knights of the Eastern/Western Star and the Harbingers of Fate. That gives lots of different factions that have lots of intrigue and heavy roleplaying possibilities that would make an urban adventure fun to investigate.
Diobel was statted out recently in Towns of the Inner Sea so you have a good location for a side adventure that already has background material, obviating the need to write a Gazetteer.
Finally, Absalom and the Pathfinder Society are iconic locations and organizations that define the setting. AP #100 will come out during this run, so it makes sense to be somewhere iconic. Finally, we haven't seen anything on Absalom since the changeover from 3.5.
Just a theory. If I'm wrong, well, I might just have to write one for home though!
The bigger issue with Kazavon or some other dragon as the book 6 BBEG is, well, the book 6 BBEG needs to be in the CR 17 to 20 range - parties are normally level 16ish, and by normal guidelines the final battle won't exceed ECL +4 or +5.
Otherwise, CR 23+ opponents are strictly the realm of a mythic campaign or the "after" campaign.
Which means we're not going to see a Book 6 throwdown with a great wyrm in the normal scope of a non-mythic AP (or if we do, it's going to be a white dragon, because of CR guidelines).
I think Yrax, Lord of the Howling Storm (I love that title), is the most important dragon to actually show up in an AP, even if Marrowgrath from Carrion Crown, what-his-name from Runelords (dude almost caused a TPK in my game), or the Lesser Jabberwocky are technically stronger.
There's probably some neat dragon I'm overlooking, though; I'm only familiar with a few of the APs.
As mentioned upthread, most great wyrms are several below that. Also, Paizo isn't a stranger for the players going on missions to weaken the BBEG, effectively lowering the CR of the final encounter.
As long as the next AP doesn't take place in Varisia or have anything to do with demons, devils, or daemons, I will be happy.
What I'd like, out of a "Traditional Fantasy" AP, is a dragon-slaying RP, or a subterranean RP where you almost never see the light of day because you're too busy rushing through the tunnels of the Underdark.
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Funny that you should say that second option, as that's entirely what my players DON'T want. In fact, one player complained that the problem with Reign of Winter is that there is no home base to grow attached to. They're also playing Runelords with me (ie, the players are in both games) and they like Sandpoint and growing with the community, developing parts of it, and so forth.
I'm almost tempted in the distant future to adapt Night Below to Pathfinder and run them through that, as Milbourne and Thurmaster (more Milbourne though) is another example of a community where the players grow and become a part of as part of the campaign. And yes, in Runelords you eventually leave Sandpoint. But you've grown attached to it. Part of the reason to fight is to protect your home.
We need more adventures like that.
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Yeah, Ultimate Campaign downtime rules are a little useless if you don't have a home base to build buildings and organizations in.
I'm one and a half books into Mummy's Mask and I'm dreading what if the party needs to leave Wati permanently at some point because they've built so many NPC attachments and possessions here.
I think we're going to get an urban adventure Council of Thieves-type adventure after Giantslayer. I'm betting it takes place in Absalom and will involve discovering the fate of Pathfinder Chronicle #5.
I really like this idea. There are so many ideas here I would love to play.
I would like to second the idea of an almost all Darklands AP, really not enough going down there.
Galt, please
Galt, please
Ask James if a Galt AP is in the works, he won't tell you when it will happen but you will know if it will happen within the next four years.
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How would a world of dragons AP sound to you. Pretty cool rite so that is why I want a world of dragons AP.
Where you ARE The Dragons:)
I hope the AP after the Giants one would be a dragon focused one.
Creative Director
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We haven't heard My. Jacobs chime in for a bit. Are any of us close Sir Developer?Galt, pleaseAsk James if a Galt AP is in the works, he won't tell you when it will happen but you will know if it will happen within the next four years.
There seems to be a lot of interest in Galt... or at the very least a few very vocal Galt cheerleaders.
In any event, and in order to maintain expectations... no, no plans for Galt anytime soon.
It WILL be an AP that touches on themes that have come up time and time again in this and other threads, but so far no one has actually guessed its actual location or specific themes. It's one I've been setting up for a while, though, here and there in other APs and in Campaign Setting books and the like... one that I've had planned for a while.
We're only a few weeks away from announcing it, so patience! ;-)
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"so, you're saying there's a chance!":D
We haven't heard My. Jacobs chime in for a bit. Are any of us close Sir Developer?Galt, pleaseAsk James if a Galt AP is in the works, he won't tell you when it will happen but you will know if it will happen within the next four years.There seems to be a lot of interest in Galt... or at the very least a few very vocal Galt cheerleaders.
In any event, and in order to maintain expectations... no, no plans for Galt anytime soon.
It WILL be an AP that touches on themes that have come up time and time again in this and other threads, but so far no one has actually guessed its actual location or specific themes. It's one I've been setting up for a while, though, here and there in other APs and in Campaign Setting books and the like... one that I've had planned for a while.
We're only a few weeks away from announcing it, so patience! ;-)
Ah! a bit of a hint!
In all seriousness tho, i can't wait to hear what it is, even if it doesn't take place in Galt:)
and i hope i'm not the only one:)
We haven't heard My. Jacobs chime in for a bit. Are any of us close Sir Developer?Galt, pleaseAsk James if a Galt AP is in the works, he won't tell you when it will happen but you will know if it will happen within the next four years.There seems to be a lot of interest in Galt... or at the very least a few very vocal Galt cheerleaders.
In any event, and in order to maintain expectations... no, no plans for Galt anytime soon.
It WILL be an AP that touches on themes that have come up time and time again in this and other threads, but so far no one has actually guessed its actual location or specific themes. It's one I've been setting up for a while, though, here and there in other APs and in Campaign Setting books and the like... one that I've had planned for a while.
We're only a few weeks away from announcing it, so patience! ;-)
And since Taldor/Ulfenland have been been mentioned in this thread, I gather it won't be either of them?
I've got a tickle it might be Molthune, but it's hardly been mentioned in other APs.
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First off, thank you for playing along Mr. Jacobs, you are making this fun.
Okay, so given those hints its clear we're not getting the Absalom AP we desperately need. I'd venture a guess from the hints that it a delve into Hollow Mountain, but it was said elsewhere that there would be no Runelords, or at least, that more Runelords were not ready to rise yet.
So where does this leave us? From the post, I'm guessing we are close, but we haven't quite hit on it yet... kind of like that one really cute girl I work with.
So I'd venture a guess at an Urban AP set in a city we haven't guessed. I'm hoping for more traditional fantasy setting after Mummy's Mask, Iron Gods and an increasingly un-Urban sounding Giantslayer.
Edit: There are a lot of cities in countries I love who haven't been mentioned. Andoran, Lastwall, don't believe Brevoy was mentioned...
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Maybe it's the Kaer Maga AP so many people have been clamoring for, though I hope not. Of course, I suspect (baselessly) that an urban AP will be avoided until they can do it in Absalom.
Maybe it's Razmir finally.
I really doubt it is Razmir as that is Jason's pet project. Just like Nex and Geb are Eric's. My next guess is a Wilderness AP in Mwangi.
Quick, someone make a list of the locations from the Inner Sea that have been used in an AP and what regions remain unused.
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RotR - Varisia,
CotCT - Korvosa, other misc parts of varisia
CoT - Cheliax (westcrown),
SD - Riddleport, Underdark, kyonin.
LoF - Katapesh and Plane of Fire.
King - River Kingdoms
SSkull - Sargova and Mwangi Expanse
CC - Ustalav
JR - Land of the Linnormkings, top of the world, varisia, and tian xia.
SShackles - the shackles
SStar - Varisia
RoW - Taldor, Irreisn, earth, triaxus, Ibarra?
WotR - Worldwound and abyss
MM - Orision
I really doubt it is Razmir as that is Jason's pet project. Just like Nex and Geb are Eric's. My next guess is a Wilderness AP in Mwangi.
That might be a good guess- a Garundi AP, though I'd say it might venture further south than just the Mwangi Expanse.
An Urban AP is also a good guess.
I'd still love to see a First World AP, although I think there isn't quite enough support for that one yet. :(
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Hmm, setting things up I would've guessed Azlanti-related stuff, maybe in Taldor since there's a lot of Azlant ruins there according to Taldor: Echoes of Glory. Or maybe the failed Sun Temple Colony. It seems like they’ve been building up to something Azlanti.
Okay, so given that it's going to be more along the lines of traditional fantasy, I'm looking at any of the following as possibilities:
Andoran (non-Darkmoon Vale) involves Eagle Knights or other Andorans fighting against Chelaxian imperialists/slavers, perhaps with a feel that hearkens back to the Slavers series of 1e. (Would be a fitting place to start after a giantslayer AP...)
Andoran (Darkmoon Vale) perhaps something involving the werewolves and/or hobgoblins that were mentioned in the Guide to Darkmoon Vale but never really got much play. I somewhat discount this because I seem to recall hearing it been put on the back burner with staffing changes.
Brevoy- feuding noble houses
Five Kings Mountains: something having to do with the dwarves. Perhaps reclaiming a lost sky citadel or some such. Not too likely because of how humanocentric Golarion is.
Isger: The Goblinsblood Wars return. Haven’t seen any thing building up to this, so this is purely a shot in the dark for completeness sake.
Kyonin: The tanglebriar most likely if it’s happening here. Unlikely since it’s already seen some action in the Second Darkness AP and again because of the humanocentric nature of Golarion
Mwangi Expanse: Most likely something relating to Jatembe, the Ring of Nine Facets, or the Ten Warriors on the chance it’s here.
Nirmathas- defending the realm against Molthune invaders, possibly a war time campaign. My issues of doubt with this are that I seem to recall hearing something about the mass combat rules could use some elaboration/further development. And it might be similar in theme to King Maker and/or Wrath of the Righteous. Alternately, an AP in Nirmanthas could involve defending the Fangwood from the Dread Blight.
Rasmiran- taking down the would-be god on the off-chance it’s here.
Going by my gut, barring the Azlanti, from the possibilities from those listed above, I’d go with the Andoran Freedom Fighter AP.