Aasimars, Tieflings, & Qualifying for Spellcasting PrC's

[Ring_of_Gyges]

So, I'm aware of the FAQ answer that says being able to cast spell X as a racial spell-like ability counts towards a prestige class that requires that you can cast spell X. No problem.

What I'm not seeing is how that gets you into Eldritch Knight early. Eldritch Knights need to be "Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells". "Spells" is plural. An Aasimar who can cast Daylight can cast one 3rd level arcane spell, but not spells.

Is there some way to get an Aasimar multiple 3rd level spell-like abilities? Is there some rule somewhere that "able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells" can be satisfied by only one spell?

Aspiring mystic theurges want to know!

[Nefreet]

You only need one.

Aasimar Bloatmages/Eldritch Knights/Mystic Theurges are all valid.

[Jeff Merola]

There's a design team clarification somewhere that if they'd meant to require more than one spell they would have explicitly stated "two or more."

[Rudy2]

No matter how many times I read this ruling, I can't get over that they let SLAs get you into these things early, thus making Aasimar automatically better for it than any other race.

[Scott Wilhelm]

In Pathfinder Society, they're outlawing Aasimars and Tieflings anyway.

[Jeff Merola]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

In Pathfinder Society, they're outlawing Aasimars and Tieflings anyway.

Erm, not quite. They're barring creation of new ones starting August 14th, but old ones are fine, as are ones created with boons.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Jeff Merola wrote:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

In Pathfinder Society, they're outlawing Aasimars and Tieflings anyway.

Erm, not quite. They're barring creation of new ones starting August 14th, but old ones are fine, as are ones created with boons.

Yes.

[TheBulletKnight]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

In Pathfinder Society, they're outlawing Aasimars and Tieflings anyway.

Only Aasimar and Tieflings? What about Sylphs, Fetchlings, and the rest ouf the native outsiders?

[Jeff Merola]

TheBulletKnight wrote:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

In Pathfinder Society, they're outlawing Aasimars and Tieflings anyway.

Only Aasimar and Tieflings? What about Sylphs, Fetchlings, and the rest ouf the native outsiders?

Only Aasimar and Tieflings are currently available for creation without a boon. Starting on August 14th they'll be back to being Boon only, with any that have at least 1 XP assigned from before then grandfathered in.

[Blakmane]

You can get early access for the same reason a Sorceror doesn't need 7 levels to gain access because he only has one spell known: 'spells' is inclusive of 'spell' in this case.

There's a dev quote confirming this floating about somewhere, but I couldn't find it from a very quick search.

*EDIT*

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pxt5&page=2?Qualifying-for-PrCs-using-spel llike-abilities

The design team does not consider a prerequisite or requirement of "ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells" to literally mean "ability to cast at least two or more 1st-level arcane spells."

Being able to cast one spell of that type and level meets the prerequisite or requirement (if the prerequisite or requirement was intended to mean "two or more," it would say that, or use language like "at least two").

That's as conclusive as you get.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

Thanks for the quote Blakmane. That's much more comforting than assurances that someone said it somewhere.

[Blakmane]

No worries. Next time, try the 'search' button.

[Kwauss]

Also, a crossblooded sorcerer with only 1 level will only know 1 first level spell. But they should qualify you for PrC requirements of this sort.

[Grimmy]

Rudy2 wrote:

No matter how many times I read this ruling, I can't get over that they let SLAs get you into these things early, thus making Aasimar automatically better for it than any other race.

Yeah, I don't like that either. I wouldn't mind if every race could just get in early though.

[Jiggy]

Grimmy wrote:

Rudy2 wrote:

No matter how many times I read this ruling, I can't get over that they let SLAs get you into these things early, thus making Aasimar automatically better for it than any other race.

Yeah, I don't like that either. I wouldn't mind if every race could just get in early though.

Any race can get into EK early by taking the Scrying subschool of divination for their wizard level.

Certain cleric domains (Trickery) or inquisitions (Fate) can get you the divine half of MT's prereqs. Not sure about the arcane half.

[KrispyXIV]

Grimmy wrote:

Rudy2 wrote:

No matter how many times I read this ruling, I can't get over that they let SLAs get you into these things early, thus making Aasimar automatically better for it than any other race.

Yeah, I don't like that either. I wouldn't mind if every race could just get in early though.

The lack of a rush of overpowered Theurges and Eldritch Knights says to me that the prerequisites are way too high by default, because the classes are still just ok even if you shortcut them.

In both cases, First level spells and reduced skill rank requirement would probably be fine.

[Lifat]

KrispyXIV wrote:

Grimmy wrote:

Rudy2 wrote:

No matter how many times I read this ruling, I can't get over that they let SLAs get you into these things early, thus making Aasimar automatically better for it than any other race.

Yeah, I don't like that either. I wouldn't mind if every race could just get in early though.

The lack of a rush of overpowered Theurges and Eldritch Knights says to me that the prerequisites are way too high by default, because the classes are still just ok even if you shortcut them.

In both cases, First level spells and reduced skill rank requirement would probably be fine.

Yup. I agree with this. Usually a mystic theurge is underpowered by a lot, for a lot of the levels and only barely catches up on it's golden levels.

Eldritch knight can be built in to certain builds where it is fine.
A friend of mine suggested this build
1 lvl Sorcerer
4 lvl Fighter (or the like)
10 lvl Dragon Disciple
5 lvl Eldritch Knight.

This build has some stat and natural armor advantages over the straight fighter and also gets access to casting spells as a 12th lvl sorcerer (at CL 14 with magical knack). It will loose certain fighter only stuff but generally speaking it is a strong build.

All that to say that Eldritch knight can be used and is actually quite descent. Early entry wont overpower it though. It will just lower the "sweetspot" lvls.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

Is it obvious that Copycat is the same spell as Mirror Image? It follows a lot of the rules for Mirror Image, but it a) doesn't follow all of them and b) has a different name.

It isn't as clean an example as "You can cast Daylight" or "You can cast Augury".

[seebs]

Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

Is it obvious that Copycat is the same spell as Mirror Image? It follows a lot of the rules for Mirror Image, but it a) doesn't follow all of them and b) has a different name.

It isn't as clean an example as "You can cast Daylight" or "You can cast Augury".

It's not obvious, but the explicit statement that the diviner (scryer) power counts as clairaudience/clairvoyance makes it clear enough.

Which I find a sort of surprising ruling, because if you wrote that ability up as a first level spell, no one would think it was overpowered.

[ShiroK]

Every time i read one of these

"No matter how many times I read this ruling, I can't get over that they let SLAs get you into these things early" type comments, i laugh a little.

Due to the fact that it was specifically allowed in 3.5 to begin with. Yes this is a new game but it is designed to be compatible with 3.5. So i'm not sure why there is so much surprise about it. (Though SLA that don't mimic spells is a bit murky i'll admit.)