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Grand Lodge

Tels wrote:

Mark, do you think there should be a rules element to allow the classic maneuver of putting a knife to someones throat to hold them hostage?

I think the Bushwhack feat would allow that if you took your attack as a grapple maneuver.


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BigP4nda wrote:

I seem to be having some trouble finding a post for this, but is there any kind of Paizo-published system in Pathfinder for gathering components, reagents, herbs, etc. in the wild yourself to bypass the gold value, perhaps through a skill check or by taking a feat?

If there is a thread with this question answered that I overlooked please point me to the right direction.

I'm not Mark, but yes, there was a feat like that in Heroes of the Wild.


Le Petite Mort wrote:
Tels wrote:

Mark, do you think there should be a rules element to allow the classic maneuver of putting a knife to someones throat to hold them hostage?

I think the Bushwhack feat would allow that if you took your attack as a grapple maneuver.

However, this is something that nearly anyone should be able to perform, not just those with special training.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Ho ho ho, merry FAQday to all my occult friends!
FAQ wrote:

Emotion Components: Does the shaken condition from effects like Intimidate count as “an effect with the fear descriptor” for the purpose of blocking spells with emotion components?

Yes, they do. It should say “fear effect,” and for most descriptors, these wordings are sometimes used interchangeably. For instance, an ability that protects you from effects with the charm descriptor would generally protect you from a harpy’s song (which is a charm effect).

There is a Charm subschool, but I can't find any mention of a Charm Descriptor. Is "subschool" also sometimes interchangeable with "descriptor" now? If so then by the transitive property I suppose that "effects" is also sometimes interchangeable with "subschool." (Obligatory math reference.)

To be a bit more serious, I have been unable to find a single example anywhere in the PRD where the term descriptor has been used in place of effects in the way that the FAQ suggests. Every reference I can find reinforces the idea that descriptors are for spells (and SLAs) only. Can you give me an actual example of this usage rather than the (apparently fictional) one given in the FAQ?

To be clear, I'm happy with Intimidate shutting down psychic spells. My issues are strictly with the terminology used in the explanation.


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I think you also require the symmetric property if you want them to be interchangeable...

Since that's obviously the important part of your post. :p


Luthorne wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:

I seem to be having some trouble finding a post for this, but is there any kind of Paizo-published system in Pathfinder for gathering components, reagents, herbs, etc. in the wild yourself to bypass the gold value, perhaps through a skill check or by taking a feat?

If there is a thread with this question answered that I overlooked please point me to the right direction.

I'm not Mark, but yes, there was a feat like that in Heroes of the Wild.

I found it, the Herbal Components feat, that works well for spell components. I was hoping something geared mostly to alchemical creations and poisons. Basically anything for craft (alchemy) checks. Perhaps designing a feat much like Herbal Components but rewording it to work with alchemy.

EDIT: Just noticed the hyperlink haha.


Steve Geddes wrote:

I think you also require the symmetric property if you want them to be interchangeable...

Since that's obviously the important part of your post. :p

Oh, yes. And as always there are all sorts of other properties hiding out there behind the scenes. :)

Silver Crusade

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Steve Geddes wrote:
I think you also require the symmetric property if you want them to be interchangeable...

And we can take the reflexive property as given, of course. ;)


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The Fox wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
I think you also require the symmetric property if you want them to be interchangeable...
And we can take the reflexive property as given, of course. ;)

As a math professor, I'm very happy to be on a message board with so many people who actually remember the names of mathematical properties.


Here's a quick question about the kineticist: At 11th level, with Supercharge, it says, "At 11th level, when using gather power as a move action, a kineticist can reduce the total burn cost of a single wild talent by 2 points instead of 1. When using gather power for 1 full round, she can reduce the burn cost of a single wild talent by 3 points instead of 2." Mostly I'm just wondering, when it comes to gathering energy for a full round and then gathering more, does this mean:

a) There's no point in doing so anymore, gathering energy for a full round is already at maximum efficiency of -3, using your move action on top of that does nothing.

b) Doing so reduces it by an additional point, increasing to -4.

c) Doing so is the same as using a move action a second time, so it's actually -3 with an added -2 on top of that for a total of -5.

...I'm presuming A is correct, but wanted to be sure when taking notes for how much burn gets reduced at what level.

Edit: In case I'm being incoherent since it's late, what goes where I have ?, -3, -4, or -5?


Luthorne wrote:

Here's a quick question about the kineticist: At 11th level, with Supercharge, it says, "At 11th level, when using gather power as a move action, a kineticist can reduce the total burn cost of a single wild talent by 2 points instead of 1. When using gather power for 1 full round, she can reduce the burn cost of a single wild talent by 3 points instead of 2." Mostly I'm just wondering, when it comes to gathering energy for a full round and then gathering more, does this mean:

a) There's no point in doing so anymore, gathering energy for a full round is already at maximum efficiency of -3, using your move action on top of that does nothing.

b) Doing so reduces it by an additional point, increasing to -4.

c) Doing so is the same as using a move action a second time, so it's actually -3 with an added -2 on top of that for a total of -5.

...I'm presuming A is correct, but wanted to be sure when taking notes for how much burn gets reduced at what level.

Edit: In case I'm being incoherent since it's late, what goes where I have ?, -3, -4, or -5?

C actually.

Scarab Sages

Mark, could you confirm that it's possible to gain the benefit of Gathering Power as a move action twice in the same round, e.g. by using a Quick Runner's Shirt to gain an extra move action? So I can basically get a 2-Burn (4-Burn at 11th) attack for free once per encounter if I exchange used-up shirts between fights?

The fact that you can combine a full-round and a move-action Gather Power would suggest that this works.

A lot of people seem worried about the fact that the Kineticist has trouble boosting their power with items like everyone else, and this would certainly help.


Quick Runner's Shirt does not work that, (un)fortunately. It says you can spend a swift action once per day to get an additional move action to move on their turn.

So, it sounds like that swift needs to be for moving. Which means you could charge up and then move? But not for move equivalent actions because the item is specific about what you can spend that move action on.

Scarab Sages

Gah! Thanks for the catch. I guess it's still useful to move into position for an Impale or something without losing Gather Power, so that's fine. I'll still buy a few.

What do Kineticists spend their money on, anyway? Just AC and stat boosts?


Aside from armor, AC and save boosters, and Dex/Con boosts, I have bought a lot of potions and wands. Save up for a kineticist's diadem, and maybe invest in some magic items to help shore up some things the party may be lacking.

I also find myself spending gold on items I have always found interesting but not mechanically effective, and surprising myself when they do prove to be useful.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

just curious, will we be seeing a FAQ this Friday or not because of the con?

Are there more potential ACG errata fixes in the works/ possible to be in the works or has that stuff settled now?

I'm hoping to do a FAQ this Friday. We'll see what happens. I know we start having potential blog spots soon, so that simulacrum FAQ blog could come up eventually.

The ACG errata have been set for the second printing, but it's never too early to start working on the errata for the third! I want us to get each release to the best standards we can in terms of fixing problem areas. There's sure to be some that we miss on each pass, but I think we caught at least a hefty majority this time.

Any chance for that Simulacrum FAQ soon ?


Hey Mark, I just finished creating an Unchained version of the Ninja class, to go with the Unchained Rogue. Would you mind taking a look and telling me what you think?

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Howdy Mark!

One question I've been pondering: for the elemental ascetic kineticist archetype, was it intentional for the kinetic blast damage to not use Wisdom for determining its effects (unlike the Overwhelming Soul archetype that uses Charisma for nearly all of the Constitution-based effects, including blast damage)?


Luthorne wrote:

Here's a quick question about the kineticist: At 11th level, with Supercharge, it says, "At 11th level, when using gather power as a move action, a kineticist can reduce the total burn cost of a single wild talent by 2 points instead of 1. When using gather power for 1 full round, she can reduce the burn cost of a single wild talent by 3 points instead of 2." Mostly I'm just wondering, when it comes to gathering energy for a full round and then gathering more, does this mean:

a) There's no point in doing so anymore, gathering energy for a full round is already at maximum efficiency of -3, using your move action on top of that does nothing.

b) Doing so reduces it by an additional point, increasing to -4.

c) Doing so is the same as using a move action a second time, so it's actually -3 with an added -2 on top of that for a total of -5.

...I'm presuming A is correct, but wanted to be sure when taking notes for how much burn gets reduced at what level.

Edit: In case I'm being incoherent since it's late, what goes where I have ?, -3, -4, or -5?

The answer is c, nothing about the ability sets a cap on how much it can reduce other than how much the actions reduce. So doing a full round for 3 and then a move for another 2 reduces the burn by 5.


I'm unsure if it's been answered already, but I have a question about the kinetecist infusion "thundering infusion". On the ability, it simply reads "the target is deafened" and does not give a duration. Is this intended to mean that the deafened condition is permanent?


Mark, what does the size change of Kinetic Form exactly do for the Kineticist?

A) Does it grant size bonus to CMD/CMB?

B) Penalty to AC?

C) Increased damage with unarmed strike/other weapons?

D) Can one benefit from enlarge person and then spend one point of burn to become huge or two points to become gargantuan? What about if they have already spent the points, and then have enlarge person cast on them? (I'm assuming the answer is, "No" here)

F) Increase in carrying capacity?

G) Faster movement speed?

H) Penalty to skills? (fly, stealth, etc)

Besides increasing your reach, I'm unclear as to what else it does for you. I know it doesn't affect your ability scores in any way (so no boost to strength/constitution or penalty to dexterity), but size increases involve more than just boosts/penalties to ability scores.

Separate question, how long does Kinetic Cover stick around for? Could a telekinetic, theoretically, build an entire maze out of translucent kinetic covers?

Sovereign Court

Hey Mark, I have a couple of clarifications for the designer of the Kineticist and the Medium, if you can find him!

1) Is Rare Metal Infusion supposed to bypass hardness, considering it counts as adamantine for DR?

2) I'm a little confused about Surprise Strike's wording, does it just mean your first attack of the day against any enemy is at flat-footed? Or is it only against targets you have hit with your sneak attack? Does your Sneak Attack damage apply to this attack?

Scarab Sages

Tels, I'm pretty sure you only get reach, –1 AC, –1 to hit, and +1 CMD, the way it's written.


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Tels wrote:

Mark, what does the size change of Kinetic Form exactly do for the Kineticist?

A) Does it grant size bonus to CMD/CMB?

B) Penalty to AC?

C) Increased damage with unarmed strike/other weapons?

D) Can one benefit from enlarge person and then spend one point of burn to become huge or two points to become gargantuan? What about if they have already spent the points, and then have enlarge person cast on them? (I'm assuming the answer is, "No" here)

F) Increase in carrying capacity?

G) Faster movement speed?

H) Penalty to skills? (fly, stealth, etc)

Besides increasing your reach, I'm unclear as to what else it does for you. I know it doesn't affect your ability scores in any way (so no boost to strength/constitution or penalty to dexterity), but size increases involve more than just boosts/penalties to ability scores.

A) Yes.

B) Yes.
C) Yes.
D) Magical size increases don't stack, and Kinetic form is a SP so it's magical.
E) You didn't use E
F) Yes.
G) No.
H) Yes.

Grand Lodge

sorry for the repost, I thought it might be worth to ask here:

Herolab team is asking for evidence (one way or another on the following topic :

***** Fact *****
Adopted lets you pick another race trait (a trait, belonging to the 'Race' Category / NOT a Racial trait belonging to the race description )

***** Question *****
Does that apply as well to the variant sub-races for skinwalkers, dhampirs, aasimars and tieflings ?

***** Example *****
everyone agrees that:
1/ a PC can take Adrift (Book of Angels, P30) an aasimar trait

but what about :
2/enlightened warrior (Books of Angels P21 a race trait that allows to be a NN or NG Monk), but reserved to Idyllkin (Agathion blooded Aasimar)

Herolab says 1st is OK, but not 2nd.


Vrischika111 wrote:

sorry for the repost, I thought it might be worth to ask here:

Herolab team is asking for evidence (one way or another on the following topic :

***** Fact *****
Adopted lets you pick another race trait (a trait, belonging to the 'Race' Category / NOT a Racial trait belonging to the race description )

***** Question *****
Does that apply as well to the variant sub-races for skinwalkers, dhampirs, aasimars and tieflings ?

***** Example *****
everyone agrees that:
1/ a PC can take Adrift (Book of Angels, P30) an aasimar trait

but what about :
2/enlightened warrior (Books of Angels P21 a race trait that allows to be a NN or NG Monk), but reserved to Idyllkin (Agathion blooded Aasimar)

Herolab says 1st is OK, but not 2nd.

Herolab is wrong, enlightened is a race trait for Idyllkin. Adopted lets you pick other races race traits. Thus you can pick it. What would possibly stop you from picking that trait for adopted? So the real question is why would Herolab think it would be restricted? Nothing would indicate that it should be.

Grand Lodge

while I totally agree, they ask for an official reply, as they don't allow it.


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Vrischika111 wrote:
while I totally agree, they ask for an official reply, as they don't allow it.

Mark doesn't give "official replies' here.


Vrischika111 wrote:
while I totally agree, they ask for an official reply, as they don't allow it.

Ask them what their reason for not allowing it is? Where's there basis for not allowing it? IF they don't have one and refuse to change it without "official response" then they don't want to fix it.


Out of curiosity, are there plans for ever bringing out composite blasts for the missing combinations? I noticed cold in particular has almost no combinations, only making a composite blast with water (ice) and telekinetic (aetheric boost). Earth and electricity - as well as fire and electricity - don't have one either...

Liberty's Edge

Do psychic potions exist? I noticed there's no mention of them in the book.

Oh and wands too.


Luthorne wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there plans for ever bringing out composite blasts for the missing combinations? I noticed cold in particular has almost no combinations, only making a composite blast with water (ice) and telekinetic (aetheric boost). Earth and electricity - as well as fire and electricity - don't have one either...

Hmmm, I guess you've got a point. I mean, I don't see how certain combinations would actually work, but I can see where you are coming from. That said, cold goes with air as well for blizzard.

Tell me, what do you think an electrified hunk of rock accomplishes? How would a flaming lightning bolt work? Would a frozen rock/dirt clod hurt more?


Lukas Stariha wrote:

Hey Mark, I have a couple of clarifications for the designer of the Kineticist and the Medium, if you can find him!

1) Is Rare Metal Infusion supposed to bypass hardness, considering it counts as adamantine for DR?

2) I'm a little confused about Surprise Strike's wording, does it just mean your first attack of the day against any enemy is at flat-footed? Or is it only against targets you have hit with your sneak attack? Does your Sneak Attack damage apply to this attack?

As a note, Adamantine doesn't bypass hardness, it ignores hardness that is less than 20 (so it will have to reduce its damage by any hardness at 20 or greater, i.e. anything Adamantine, or a +3 or greater Mithral armor, etc.)


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Xelaaredn wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there plans for ever bringing out composite blasts for the missing combinations? I noticed cold in particular has almost no combinations, only making a composite blast with water (ice) and telekinetic (aetheric boost). Earth and electricity - as well as fire and electricity - don't have one either...

Hmmm, I guess you've got a point. I mean, I don't see how certain combinations would actually work, but I can see where you are coming from. That said, cold goes with air as well for blizzard.

Tell me, what do you think an electrified hunk of rock accomplishes? How would a flaming lightning bolt work? Would a frozen rock/dirt clod hurt more?

How does an electrified fire blast work? Like this.


"Lightning Flame Dragon"

Man they started ass-pulling even more garbage after I stopped reading that.

That said it is kind of weird that the Plasma blast (which was the Fire/Electricity option) was dropped from the playtest.

Edit: Oh, now it's just Air/Fire.

Edit 2: So if it's just Superheated Flame via an air burst fanning the flames, why does it still qualify for Magnetic Infusion? That seems like another typo.

Scarab Sages

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Fire/Electricity should be the X-Ray Laser Blast. ;o)


Xelaaredn wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there plans for ever bringing out composite blasts for the missing combinations? I noticed cold in particular has almost no combinations, only making a composite blast with water (ice) and telekinetic (aetheric boost). Earth and electricity - as well as fire and electricity - don't have one either...

Hmmm, I guess you've got a point. I mean, I don't see how certain combinations would actually work, but I can see where you are coming from. That said, cold goes with air as well for blizzard.

Tell me, what do you think an electrified hunk of rock accomplishes? How would a flaming lightning bolt work? Would a frozen rock/dirt clod hurt more?

Ah, yes, forgot air + cold since I was working my way down. Whoops!

An electrically charged piece of rock could still do more damage, or even potentially attract a lightning strike. Also, not all rocks are equal, for example, quartz (one of the most common minerals) produces electricity when pressure is applied (see piezoelectricity). Besides, if you want to complain about that, why does mud do more damage than rocks? Being more dangerous because it's semi-liquid and would have a higher chance of suffocating someone, sure, but it hurts twice as much being hit by mud than it does by an actual solid? I don't think permafrost blast (cold/earth) or conductive blast (earth/electricity) are that much of a stretch if you accept mud blast...

Honestly, I think fire and electricity should have been plasma, given Paizo's own treatment of plasma in the past...probably too late for that, and I suppose it's fair enough that you can create plasma by heating a gas (though a strong electromagnetic field works too). Either way, it should still be possible, even if only via artificial means, since you are manipulating the elements...perhaps lightning blast? After all, part of lightning involves superheating the channel to form a highly electrically conductive plasma channel, and lightning has been artificially generated via use of lasers, and light and heat are certainly related...

I'm sure they could come up with something. It's just a little annoying that it's inherently a bad idea to pick some elements as your second or third choice because you wouldn't have a composite blast...heck, someone who loves the energy blasts could go cold blast, electric blast, and fire blast, and wind up with no composite blasts at all, which seems pretty unfair. Unless that's some form of balance?

Scarab Sages

I asked Mark about a permafrost blast, and he said it's not official but easy enough to create as a houserule. Basically I think it was a matter of limited space. I'd expect any sensible DM to allow all element combinations, but for PFS you'd be stuck with the official composites.

Mud is not inherently more powerful than Earth, but you're combining material from two sources and therefore have more mass and/or energy to work with.

I don't see a problem with charged earth (magnetic ore? superconductor?) either. Implant a spike of conductive ore and zap them through it! "Lightning Rod Blast". ;o)


Chess Pwn wrote:
Tels wrote:


D) Can one benefit from enlarge person and then spend one point of burn to become huge or two points to become gargantuan? What about if they have already spent the points, and then have enlarge person cast on them? (I'm assuming the answer is, "No" here)
D) Magical size increases don't stack, and Kinetic form is a SP so it's magical.

Well, you see, the interesting thing here is that you aren't actually increasing your size. You're suspending yourself in elemental matter. Essentially, you're climbing into an elemental mecha.

It also pertains to non-standard Kineticists. For example, a Pyrokinetic Troll is a large size creature, can he increase his size to huge, then gargantuan, or does he have to wait until 16th level before he can increase his size to huge? (because he's already large, the first part of Kinetic Form would have no benefit for him)

As it stands, the way it's worded, if one were to make Geokinetic Brownie to allow them to jump from tiny size, to large size for 1 point of burn. At the same time, so too can a Halfling go from Small to Large.

It's an oddity because Kinetic Form both is, and is not, a size increase.

Scarab Sages

Another reason why Halfling Kineticists rock. :)


Catharsis wrote:

I asked Mark about a permafrost blast, and he said it's not official but easy enough to create as a houserule. Basically I think it was a matter of limited space. I'd expect any sensible DM to allow all element combinations, but for PFS you'd be stuck with the official composites.

Mud is not inherently more powerful than Earth, but you're combining material from two sources and therefore have more mass and/or energy to work with.

I don't see a problem with charged earth (magnetic ore? superconductor?) either. Implant a spike of conductive ore and zap them through it! "Lightning Rod Blast". ;o)

Yeah, I figured it was a space issue too, given how much I've heard about how tight space was for the kineticist, though I'd like for the 'missing' composite blasts to appear somewhere (Occult Origins? Blog post?) just to be safe. But on the off-chance that it was a balance issue, I was hoping Mark would weigh in to let me know.


Mark, are the forums so bad that you get sad from them even before coming to them? haha.


Would you be more excited or apprehensive if eventually you guys ended up writing a Futuristic Adventures style book for the RPG line? Mainly wondering considering your dissatisfaction with the existent advanced technology rules in PF.


Hi Mark I have Kineticist question I was wondering about the Thundering Infusion. The way the Infusion is written its seems you have to hit the target and bypass SR for the target to be deafened. Does this mean the Thundering Infusion can only be used against enemies with SR, or do you count creatures without a listed SR as having SR0 so it is automatically bypassed.

One more question why does a class that relies on hit points not have more than D8. I mean why not have another D12 class I hardly get much use out of the die nowadays.


CrookedPony wrote:

Hi Mark I have Kineticist question I was wondering about the Thundering Infusion. The way the Infusion is written its seems you have to hit the target and bypass SR for the target to be deafened. Does this mean the Thundering Infusion can only be used against enemies with SR, or do you count creatures without a listed SR as having SR0 so it is automatically bypassed.

One more question why does a class that relies on hit points not have more than D8. I mean why not have another D12 class I hardly get much use out of the die nowadays.

1) if they don't have SR then you automatically bypass it.

2)Hit Die are linked to BAB. d6=1/2 bab, d8=3/4, d10+=full. The ONLY exception I know of is the Dragon Disciple prestige class, and since that is a carry over from DnD it's not "really" held to the rules. And since they didn't want it to have full BAB a d8 is the highest they could go.


Chess Pwn wrote:
CrookedPony wrote:

Hi Mark I have Kineticist question I was wondering about the Thundering Infusion. The way the Infusion is written its seems you have to hit the target and bypass SR for the target to be deafened. Does this mean the Thundering Infusion can only be used against enemies with SR, or do you count creatures without a listed SR as having SR0 so it is automatically bypassed.

One more question why does a class that relies on hit points not have more than D8. I mean why not have another D12 class I hardly get much use out of the die nowadays.

1) if they don't have SR then you automatically bypass it.

2)Hit Die are linked to BAB. d6=1/2 bab, d8=3/4, d10+=full. The ONLY exception I know of is the Dragon Disciple prestige class, and since that is a carry over from DnD it's not "really" held to the rules. And since they didn't want it to have full BAB a d8 is the highest they could go.

Thank you for the clarification on Thundering Infusion. I'm glad I can bring this info to my GM for future games.

I actually did not know that Hit Die was linked to BAB. I have been playing since Forgotten Realms first came out, and I never noticed the connection. Thank you for this info as well.


Hit die and BAB are linked only for 20th level base classes. Prestige classes, like the Dragon Disciple, follow different rules.


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So, Mark, who can I thank for the MoMS buff?

Scarab Sages

Alright so does the air's leap utility power allow a kineticist to break the rule in the acrobatics jump description stateing that you can never jump further than you can move? If it doesn't than it seems like an ability you could never use. Breaking down the math at 2nd level (the earliest you could get the talent) you have 2 ranks in acrobatics get an additional 2 from air's leap and another 3 from it being a class skill puts you at 7 for a kineticist that has no dex bonus (seems unlikely but we'll go with it). Assuming a roll of natural 1 that puts you at an 8 and you count as having a running start so that puts you at 8 horozontal feet. Then the ability doubles that to 16 take a point of burn and it doubles again to 32, 2 feet beyond any standard races move speed. So rolling anything above a 1 at second level just doesn't matter? Seems a bit odd, even more so if you take the kinetic leap feat at 3rd level for the extra +10.


Rolling above a 1 saves you from taking a point of Burn, for one thing.

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