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Designer

ZanThrax wrote:

Mark, back when the NPC Codex came out, some people noticed that some of the animal companions with multiple primary attacks were given an iterative attack instead of the (useless to them) Multiattack feat that the RAW text says they should get. SKR explained that that's what's supposed to happen, a couple of posters pointed out that there's no way to come to that conclusion from reading the actual rules and asked if the rules would be updated to reflect that. And then nothing further came of it.

So my question is, will the animal companion rules be changed to make those companions in the NPC Codex legal (and incidentally power up claw/claw/bite companions in general) at some point? And if not, will the companions in the NPC Codex be nerfed to match RAW?

I believe that Sean made a mistake at the time and that NPC Codex would be changed in the next errata, but not 100% sure.

Designer

Human Fighter wrote:
Can you take a five foot step during a standard action, swift or an immediate action?

You can take a five foot step during your turn, it's not an action. It doesn't break up a discrete action (but it can go, e.g. during a full attack action or something, between discrete attacks). If you ready an action and you hadn't moved at all the turn you readied, you can also take a 5-foot step as part of your ready, just before or after whatever action you had readied.

Designer

DrakeRoberts wrote:
Hey Mark, a few of us got into a big conversation today with no true outcome, and I was hoping that maybe you could help. We were trying to figure out what damage bonuses would be added to the splash damage of an Alchemist's Bomb. Point Blank Shot has an FAQ saying that it only applies to direct hits and not splash damage. Is this due to the non-targeted nature of splash damage? What about things like Inspire Courage, Freebooter's Bane, or Weapon Specialization? Is there a good way to know what will/won't apply? Thanks for any insight you can provide, the issue has caused a number of disputes over the past few weeks.

It's unclear, even with the FAQ. Clearly none of those bonuses would add to splash damage directly, but perhaps they all (even Point-Blank Shot) add to it indirectly by increasing the minimum of the direct damage. If that interpretation is right, then the FAQ is basically saying not to double-dip (by adding the bonuses again after they already affected the minimum and so were added indirectly).

Designer

Kalindlara wrote:
Regarding that FAQ, something related to that came up in my game. Are all fear effects also emotion effects? Is a haunt's effect (a fear effect) subject to a +2 bonus on saving throws against emotion effects?

Emotion and fear are different descriptors.

Designer

Dylos wrote:
Ifa skald is using a poets cloak, do they count as having the inspire courage class feature for meeting the prerequisites for the battle Herald prestige class?

Inspire courage is a type of bardic performance, so the battle herald was written a little differently than I would have in the first place. Regardless, it would seem that you don't have it as a class feature, so no.

Designer

snickersimba wrote:

What is your favorite animal?

What happens if a rust monster starts hungering for your laptop?

Animal? I don't know. Bats are pretty cool.

If a rust monster hungered for my laptop, I would hope the non-metal outside would protect it.

Designer

N N 959 wrote:
terry_t_uk wrote:
N N 959 wrote:
Spring Attack and AoO's. I did a search and found lots of discussion but no FAQ. Does a Spring Attack user avoid any AoO's or only those that result from movement?
He will not provoke any AoO's for moving from the traget of his attack but will provoke from any other enemy combatants he passes by (and triggers an AoO from). However, his AC will be 4 higher due to Mobility which, I think, is required for Spring Attack.
I meant from the person that is being attacked. For example, what if I attack someone with an unarmed attack?

I think it's supposed to be only movement in the same way that Shield Master is not supposed to negate all penalties, just the ones for TWFing with the shield. There's wiggle room there for someone to argue it though, I guess.

Designer

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x x 342 wrote:

Hello MS,

I started a topic on a rules question here http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ry2w?precise-shot-and-ranged-touch-spells . As you can see, I was directed to this topic to try to get a designer's take on two specific "problems" with game balance that I perceive with requiring Precise Shot to cast rays into melee without a penalty on the attack roll.
First: do the designers really intend to require casters to take two feats (Point Blank and Precise Shot) to avoid the shooting into melee penalty?
Second: do the designers really intend for the Lantern Archon to always take the penalty when attacking a foe who is in melee (perhaps with the archon itself)?

That is how it works, yes. In the latter situation, the archon could always 5-foot step back first, though. Trust me, as someone who has seen the little buggers in high level games, touch AC is low enough that they'll still hit mostly fine, especially with a bard or such around.

Liberty's Edge

I personally don't have a lot of rule questions, besides, you get enough of those already.

What are the odds that the hybrid classes get racial archetypes?

When will paizo go through and rename the old archetypes that share the same name as a current class, because some archetypes and even prestige classes don't really work anymore, due to actual classes existing.


Regarding Weapon Finesse and melee touch attacks:

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to delivering touch spells? The combat rules section on "armed" unarmed attacks includes delivering touch spells. Since unarmed attacks benefit from Weapon Finesse, do touch spells also benefit from it?

2) If touch spells do indeed benefit from Weapon Finesse, do non-spell touch attacks (like a paladin's Lay on Hands) also benefit from Weapon Finesse

3) Does the spell Flame Blade benefit from Weapon Finesse? It is a melee touch attack, but is wielded "as if it were a scimitar".

(I might as well mention how little sense it would make for an immaterial beam of fire to be Str-based, although I never know whether common sense is relevant in this kind of discussion.)


What have been your favorite video games of the past year?

Designer

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RumpinRufus wrote:

Regarding Weapon Finesse and melee touch attacks:

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to delivering touch spells? The combat rules section on "armed" unarmed attacks includes delivering touch spells. Since unarmed attacks benefit from Weapon Finesse, do touch spells also benefit from it?

2) If touch spells do indeed benefit from Weapon Finesse, do non-spell touch attacks (like a paladin's Lay on Hands) also benefit from Weapon Finesse

3) Does the spell Flame Blade benefit from Weapon Finesse? It is a melee touch attack, but is wielded "as if it were a scimitar".

(I might as well mention how little sense it would make for an immaterial beam of fire to be Str-based, although I never know whether common sense is relevant in this kind of discussion.)

I think everything you list is finessable except flame blade (without Dervish Dance or something) due to scimitars not being finessable.


Thanks for your quick response!!

A couple more touch attack questions: do the Deliquescent Gloves allow you to make melee touch attacks whenever you like (doing 1d6 acid damage,) or does it only add 1d6 acid damage to touch attacks that you are granted from other sources (like touch spells)?

If they allow you to make "independent" touch attacks, can you TWF with a weapon in one hand and the gloves in the other?

(bonus question: when you buy the Deliquescent Gloves, do they come in a pair or is there only a single glove?)

Designer

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RumpinRufus wrote:

Thanks for your quick response!!

A couple more touch attack questions: do the Deliquescent Gloves allow you to make melee touch attacks whenever you like (doing 1d6 acid damage,) or does it only add 1d6 acid damage to touch attacks that you are granted from other sources (like touch spells)?

If they allow you to make "independent" touch attacks, can you TWF with a weapon in one hand and the gloves in the other?

(bonus question: when you buy the Deliquescent Gloves, do they come in a pair or is there only a single glove?)

The item appears to be poorly written. In one place it claims to be a pair of gloves, and in another it claims to only cover one hand. It's also ambiguous as to the touch attack part. I guess it depends on whether you would allow someone to poke someone else as a touch attack for no effect.


Mark Seifter wrote:
I guess it depends on whether you would allow someone to poke someone else as a touch attack for no effect.

Sure. This question is also relevant in regards to an archon's Aura of Menace.

Silver Crusade

Mark, I have some Black blade questions, can Black blades speak? If not why not. Why do black blades gain additional languages as they progress?
DO the extra languages they gain only count for telepathic communications?
Can black blades communicate with people with whom they are not bound to?

Can a black blade trigger a wand or a rod that it has within it via the weapon wand spell.

Mark if some of my questions sound snarky that is no my intent, precisely worded questions are hard to word without sometimes sounding snarky.


Mark Seifter wrote:
DrakeRoberts wrote:
Hey Mark, a few of us got into a big conversation today with no true outcome, and I was hoping that maybe you could help. We were trying to figure out what damage bonuses would be added to the splash damage of an Alchemist's Bomb. Point Blank Shot has an FAQ saying that it only applies to direct hits and not splash damage. Is this due to the non-targeted nature of splash damage? What about things like Inspire Courage, Freebooter's Bane, or Weapon Specialization? Is there a good way to know what will/won't apply? Thanks for any insight you can provide, the issue has caused a number of disputes over the past few weeks.
It's unclear, even with the FAQ. Clearly none of those bonuses would add to splash damage directly, but perhaps they all (even Point-Blank Shot) add to it indirectly by increasing the minimum of the direct damage. If that interpretation is right, then the FAQ is basically saying not to double-dip (by adding the bonuses again after they already affected the minimum and so were added indirectly).

OH! Now that's interesting, we hadn't thought of that. Is that how you interpret/use the FAQ?

Designer

Lou Diamond wrote:

Mark, I have some Black blade questions, can Black blades speak? If not why not. Why do black blades gain additional languages as they progress?

DO the extra languages they gain only count for telepathic communications?
Can black blades communicate with people with whom they are not bound to?

Can a black blade trigger a wand or a rod that it has within it via the weapon wand spell.

Mark if some of my questions sound snarky that is no my intent, precisely worded questions are hard to word without sometimes sounding snarky.

I'm not sure RAW if they can speak. I generally allow them to speak, but not to activate spell trigger items and such.

Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
DrakeRoberts wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
DrakeRoberts wrote:
Hey Mark, a few of us got into a big conversation today with no true outcome, and I was hoping that maybe you could help. We were trying to figure out what damage bonuses would be added to the splash damage of an Alchemist's Bomb. Point Blank Shot has an FAQ saying that it only applies to direct hits and not splash damage. Is this due to the non-targeted nature of splash damage? What about things like Inspire Courage, Freebooter's Bane, or Weapon Specialization? Is there a good way to know what will/won't apply? Thanks for any insight you can provide, the issue has caused a number of disputes over the past few weeks.
It's unclear, even with the FAQ. Clearly none of those bonuses would add to splash damage directly, but perhaps they all (even Point-Blank Shot) add to it indirectly by increasing the minimum of the direct damage. If that interpretation is right, then the FAQ is basically saying not to double-dip (by adding the bonuses again after they already affected the minimum and so were added indirectly).
OH! Now that's interesting, we hadn't thought of that. Is that how you interpret/use the FAQ?

So far, yeah. In my mind, the minimum is the minimum, and there's nothing special separating that Int bonus from Throw Anything from a morale bonus or other kind of bonus. The class says "so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage" but how do we know if the 2d6+4 in the example includes 1 from Point-Blank anyway? I could be wrong, though.

Liberty's Edge

why is crossbow mastery on the archery ranger combat style?

Designer

snickersimba wrote:
why is crossbow mastery on the archery ranger combat style?

Because the archery style was written before the crossbow style existed and tried (a bit unsuccessfully) to do both.

Liberty's Edge

Well, it should be replaced. I think bulls eye is a perfect fit.

Grand Lodge

Mark Seifter wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:

Regarding Weapon Finesse and melee touch attacks:

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to delivering touch spells? The combat rules section on "armed" unarmed attacks includes delivering touch spells. Since unarmed attacks benefit from Weapon Finesse, do touch spells also benefit from it?

2) If touch spells do indeed benefit from Weapon Finesse, do non-spell touch attacks (like a paladin's Lay on Hands) also benefit from Weapon Finesse

3) Does the spell Flame Blade benefit from Weapon Finesse? It is a melee touch attack, but is wielded "as if it were a scimitar".

(I might as well mention how little sense it would make for an immaterial beam of fire to be Str-based, although I never know whether common sense is relevant in this kind of discussion.)

I think everything you list is finessable except flame blade (without Dervish Dance or something) due to scimitars not being finessable.

If flame blade is treated as a scimitar, does that mean feats such as Weapon Focus will increase the To Hit, Weapon Specialization will increase the damage and Improved Critical increase the crit range (with the natural range being 18-20/x2)?


Mark Seifter wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Does someone using a lance in one hand while mounted treat it as being in two hands for the 1.5X strength to damage, or just for the power attack?
I can't really answer this question, since our current ruling about mounted lances (and several other things about mounted combat) are too confusing and occasionally contradictory when compared to other ways to one-hand a two-handed weapon.

Thanks. I feel better now at least

Designer

Dafydd wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:

Regarding Weapon Finesse and melee touch attacks:

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to delivering touch spells? The combat rules section on "armed" unarmed attacks includes delivering touch spells. Since unarmed attacks benefit from Weapon Finesse, do touch spells also benefit from it?

2) If touch spells do indeed benefit from Weapon Finesse, do non-spell touch attacks (like a paladin's Lay on Hands) also benefit from Weapon Finesse

3) Does the spell Flame Blade benefit from Weapon Finesse? It is a melee touch attack, but is wielded "as if it were a scimitar".

(I might as well mention how little sense it would make for an immaterial beam of fire to be Str-based, although I never know whether common sense is relevant in this kind of discussion.)

I think everything you list is finessable except flame blade (without Dervish Dance or something) due to scimitars not being finessable.
If flame blade is treated as a scimitar, does that mean feats such as Weapon Focus will increase the To Hit, Weapon Specialization will increase the damage and Improved Critical increase the crit range (with the natural range being 18-20/x2)?

You wield it as if it was a scimitar, and specifically Strength modifier is called out not to apply, so probably other modifiers would, or other benefits for scimitars. No Power Attack, though, since it's a touch attack, but otherwise looks like yeah.

Grand Lodge

Cool, now I just need to work out the rest of this idea. Hmm, Magus with a flame blade, how to make that happen....


Mr. Mark Seifter,

How goes the development of Occult Adventures? I'm not asking for a peak, hint, or anything. I'm just wondering if it is progressing well and if you are satisfied at this stage of things?

Designer

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The NPC wrote:

Mr. Mark Seifter,

How goes the development of Occult Adventures? I'm not asking for a peak, hint, or anything. I'm just wondering if it is progressing well and if you are satisfied at this stage of things?

Things have certainly been an interesting ride, and at the moment, we're moving on smoothly!

As for a peak, given it's Occult, I'll offer one: Mt. Shasta.


So Mark,willing to give any input on Skald's and the Extra Rage power feat?

Will it be adreases in the ACG errata?

There seems to be a division on whether the feat counts as another source for granting rage powers through raging song.

It seems kinda ambiguous with the recent "double dipping" of ability scores in Pathfinder.

Designer

Deadkitten wrote:

So Mark,willing to give any input on Skald's and the Extra Rage power feat?

Will it be adreases in the ACG errata?

There seems to be a division on whether the feat counts as another source for granting rage powers through raging song.

It seems kinda ambiguous with the recent "double dipping" of ability scores in Pathfinder.

It seems like another source to me. That's more FAQ territory than errata.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadkitten wrote:

So Mark,willing to give any input on Skald's and the Extra Rage power feat?

Will it be adreases in the ACG errata?

There seems to be a division on whether the feat counts as another source for granting rage powers through raging song.

It seems kinda ambiguous with the recent "double dipping" of ability scores in Pathfinder.

It seems like another source to me. That's more FAQ territory than errata.

Thanks for the input. Figured it was worth asking, none of the threads on the rules forum seem to have taken off at all.

Guess I gotta go make a new thread!


Do you ever check out the homebrewed classes on the forums?


Are we getting a FAQ today?

Designer

Kryzbyn wrote:
Do you ever check out the homebrewed classes on the forums?

I occasionally do, but I just don't have enough time to check those and 3pp offerings out as much as I would like.

Designer

Chess Pwn wrote:
Are we getting a FAQ today?

Something relatively weighty is coming, but due to some interesting factors, it will likely be swapped for something else that's lighter but higher up on the FAQ queue. Swapping takes time, so stayed tuned!


Here's a fun one: How do you feel about characters activating combat style feats outside of or immediately before combat? I have a player who always wants to activate his style feats immediately before opening a door etc.
Combat Style Master seems to suggest that you can normally only activate a style "when combat has started", but I find it a little hard to accept that you can't prepare yourself by assuming a style stance immediately before a fight.

Designer

Kudaku wrote:

Here's a fun one: How do you feel about characters activating combat style feats outside of or immediately before combat? I have a player who always wants to activate his style feats immediately before opening a door etc.

Combat Style Master seems to suggest that you can normally only activate a style "when combat has started", but I find it a little hard to accept that you can't prepare yourself by assuming a style stance immediately before a fight.

I'm pretty unhappy with the vagueness on how style feats start and end anyway. Despite the claim about activation, there's no duration, so it would seem that even by a strict reading, it's possible that after the first fight of the day, you can claim to still be in the stance. It's part of my answer a few pages back about stances vs flying, etc.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kudaku wrote:
The style section states that "you cannot use a style feat before combat begins", but I find it a little hard to accept that you can't prepare yourself by assuming a style stance immediately before a fight.

I think that's kind of the same issue as "I can be the one who started the fight but still be flat-footed until I act".


Quick follow-up, hope you don't mind. :)

Can you think of any problems caused by a house-rule that a character can choose a style (or multiple styles if he's a Master of Many Styles etc) to "default to" at the start of combat? It makes sense to me that a character trained in a particular style would automatically enter that stance rather than the "simply not-flatfooted" stance, and it would make style feats a lot more palatable for classes that have many things competing for swift actions.

Jiggy wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
The style section states that "you cannot use a style feat before combat begins", but I find it a little hard to accept that you can't prepare yourself by assuming a style stance immediately before a fight.
I think that's kind of the same issue as "I can be the one who started the fight but still be flat-footed until I act".

Agreed. :)

Designer

Kudaku wrote:

Quick follow-up, hope you don't mind. :)

Can you think of any problems caused by a house-rule that a character can choose a style (or multiple styles if he's a Master of Many Styles etc) to "default to" at the start of combat? It makes sense to me that a character trained in a particular style would automatically enter that stance rather than the "simply not-flatfooted" stance, and it would make style feats a lot more palatable for classes that have many things competing for swift actions.

Jiggy wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
The style section states that "you cannot use a style feat before combat begins", but I find it a little hard to accept that you can't prepare yourself by assuming a style stance immediately before a fight.
I think that's kind of the same issue as "I can be the one who started the fight but still be flat-footed until I act".
Agreed. :)

It seems like it's basically giving them that Combat Style Master feat for free, when styles are already the dominant strategy for those types of characters, even with the swift cost. However, it's so muddily worded anyway, that I'm less sure than I would be that it's a bad idea if it were something clear to adjudicate without house rules.

Designer

Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Are we getting a FAQ today?
Something relatively weighty is coming, but due to some interesting factors, it will likely be swapped for something else that's lighter but higher up on the FAQ queue. Swapping takes time, so stayed tuned!

And here's the lighter but still near the top of the queue FAQ for today!

FAQ wrote:

Archetypes and Gaining Powers: If an archetype like wildblooded sorcerer grants new class features like bloodline powers, domain powers, or the like, if I don’t have that archetype, can I use feats like Eldritch Heritage or Believer’s Boon and choose the powers granted by the archetype.

No. These powers only exist for the archetypes that grant them. This is particularly important because in some cases, the archetype might trade out non-parallel features to gain those powers. For example, a fey sorcerer with the wildblooded archetype trades out both her bloodline arcana and her 1st-level power to gain a new 1st-level power, but a non-sorcerer using a feat to gain a 1st-level power never had the bloodline arcana to begin with.

Liberty's Edge

What happens if I use a sarissa and enlarge person?

Also, do you accept cookies as sacrfices for putting up with all of us?


Mark Seifter wrote:


FAQ wrote:

Archetypes and Gaining Powers: If an archetype like wildblooded sorcerer grants new class features like bloodline powers, domain powers, or the like, if I don’t have that archetype, can I use feats like Eldritch Heritage or Believer’s Boon and choose the powers granted by the archetype.

No. These powers only exist for the archetypes that grant them. This is particularly important because in some cases, the archetype might trade out non-parallel features to gain those powers. For example, a fey sorcerer with the wildblooded archetype trades out both her bloodline arcana and her 1st-level power to gain a new 1st-level power, but a non-sorcerer using a feat to gain a 1st-level power never had the bloodline arcana to begin with.

So if I am a wildblooded sorcerer can I eldrich heritage for another wildblooded bloodline?

Contributor

Chess Pwn wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:


FAQ wrote:

Archetypes and Gaining Powers: If an archetype like wildblooded sorcerer grants new class features like bloodline powers, domain powers, or the like, if I don’t have that archetype, can I use feats like Eldritch Heritage or Believer’s Boon and choose the powers granted by the archetype.

No. These powers only exist for the archetypes that grant them. This is particularly important because in some cases, the archetype might trade out non-parallel features to gain those powers. For example, a fey sorcerer with the wildblooded archetype trades out both her bloodline arcana and her 1st-level power to gain a new 1st-level power, but a non-sorcerer using a feat to gain a 1st-level power never had the bloodline arcana to begin with.
So if I am a wildblooded sorcerer can I eldrich heritage for another wildblooded bloodline?

I could be wrong, but it looks like the answer would be, "No, because you don't have the original bloodline power(s) to trade for the wild bloodline one."

For instance, if you're a sylvan wild blooded sorcerer, you couldn't take Eldritch Heritage: umbral and gain the umbral bloodline because you don't have the shadow bloodline, so you could't take the wildblooded bloodline's "full package" anyway. You don't have any of the proper abilities to "trade," so to speak.


Jiggy wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
The style section states that "you cannot use a style feat before combat begins", but I find it a little hard to accept that you can't prepare yourself by assuming a style stance immediately before a fight.
I think that's kind of the same issue as "I can be the one who started the fight but still be flat-footed until I act".

My personal favorite is, "I ready an action to shoot non-party members." No duration on how long a 'readied state' lasts so he wakes up and takes a readied action so he can never be flat footed.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Tels wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
The style section states that "you cannot use a style feat before combat begins", but I find it a little hard to accept that you can't prepare yourself by assuming a style stance immediately before a fight.
I think that's kind of the same issue as "I can be the one who started the fight but still be flat-footed until I act".
My personal favorite is, "I ready an action to shoot non-party members." No duration on how long a 'readied state' lasts so he wakes up and takes a readied action so he can never be flat footed.

Except that the readied action rules do give a duration: it has to happen before your next action. So if you plan on doing anything that day, your trick doesn't work.

Fun trivia: 90% of the things cited as "goofy nonsense that the rules produce" isn't actually rules-legal.


Jiggy wrote:

Except that the readied action rules do give a duration: it has to happen before your next action. So if you plan on doing anything that day, your trick doesn't work.

Fun trivia: 90% of the things cited as "goofy nonsense that the rules produce" isn't actually rules-legal.

Readying an action is a standard action. Moving is a move action. Every six seconds when your turn comes up and your ready action didn't activate, you take a move action to move/act normally and then take another ready action. At least I'm pretty sure that's what Tels was getting at?

The rules assume that there is a difference between "in combat" and "out of combat", but the distinction isn't really clarified anywhere. Most of the time the difference is obvious (you don't run breakfast with a turn tracker) but sometimes it can create some problems. One example is wanting to activate a style feat when it's obvious that combat is about to start, another is not wanting a combat encounter to end so your Judgement is still in effect. I've had players ask for and (good-naturedly!) argue both cases.

I once did an encounter with four groups of ghouls approaching the party in a cornfield, one "wave" would arrive every 5 rounds. Let's say the party killed the first wave of ghouls in the first two rounds, and they don't know about waves 2 through 4. Do I end the encounter immediately and treat wave 2 as a new encounter (canceling combat styles, ending Judgement duration etc), or do I continue to track rounds and initiative until the next wave arrives?


Tels wrote:


My personal favorite is, "I ready an action to shoot non-party members." No duration on how long a 'readied state' lasts so he wakes up and takes a readied action so he can never be flat footed.

The simple way to handle this is that when combat starts, your Ready Action doesn't get set until your turn comes up. In other words, you can't Ready an action from non-init into Init.

Alternatively, as a GM, I have no problem letting a PC/NPC take a non-combat Ready action before init, but still making them flat-footed when combat starts. After all, the PC/NPCs are all doing something before init, shooting an arrow is no different than drawing a weapon or drinking a potion before init is rolled. None of those remove the flat footed condition prior to init.

The thing to understand is that this isn't real life. It's a game mechanic which creates design space for things like Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Initiative, etc. Deciding that any one thing is not plausible is arbitrary. The entire combat system is not plausible. So you play it as written and ignore the parts that defy real world logic because it's a game.

Grand Lodge

I just have their readied action be their surprise round action. Because sometimes people react before you can get your action off.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I just have their readied action be their surprise round action. Because sometimes people react before you can get your action off.

But that's the thing, a readied action supersedes all other actions.

Quickened spell? Doesn't matter, readied action.
Attack of opportunity? Doesn't matter, readied action.
Immediate action? Doesn't matter, readied action.

Readied actions trigger in response to another action, but before the triggering action takes place. If you're walking through jungle in enemy territory and you know they are nearby, but haven't attacked, how long can a person keep readying an action? Rules say they can do so infinitely, so that means there is never a surprise round as the party is always readied.

As long as they can come up with a justifiable readied action, they can stay readied.

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