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Hey Mark was wondering if I could get your thoughts on a rules interaction. If an arcane archer fires an arrow imbued with antimagic field at a wizard with a mythic globe of invulnerability that can negate level six spells what happens? (assuming the arrow hits)

Designer

Caasi Vomisa wrote:
Hey Mark was wondering if I could get your thoughts on a rules interaction. If an arcane archer fires an arrow imbued with antimagic field at a wizard with a mythic globe of invulnerability that can negate level six spells what happens? (assuming the arrow hits)

The only spells that stick are the ones cast through or out of the sphere, or those already in effect first. The AMF doesn't qualify, so its area will not include the sphere (but it will still affect any of its area that doesn't include the sphere. Whew, what a complicated interaction! That's my best take, though I could see a GM going either way on that.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Caasi Vomisa wrote:
Hey Mark was wondering if I could get your thoughts on a rules interaction. If an arcane archer fires an arrow imbued with antimagic field at a wizard with a mythic globe of invulnerability that can negate level six spells what happens? (assuming the arrow hits)
The only spells that stick are the ones cast through or out of the sphere, or those already in effect first. The AMF doesn't qualify, so its area will not include the sphere (but it will still affect any of its area that doesn't include the sphere. Whew, what a complicated interaction! That's my best take, though I could see a GM going either way on that.

Makes me think of a villain's tactic I've got rolled up to use Aroden's Spellbane to make himself immune to Antimagic Field, but then casts Widened Antimagic Field. After that, he polymorphs into a Dragon.

This makes it so the Antimagic Field has a diameter of 20 ft., but, due to Aroden's Spellbane, there is a 10 ft. diameter circle at the center of the field where magic still functions... That area where magic still functions happens to be the same place that the now large sized caster (who occupies the entire 10 ft. diameter area) happens to be. So there is now a 10 ft. field all around the polymorphed dragon where magic doesn't function.

Any martials who get into that area are going to lose all of the benefits of their magical items and spells (AC, attack and damage drops significantly), while the enemy casters can't cast into the Antimagic Field to hit the villain.


That sounds almost as wonky as the Oracle in my Mythic Kingmaker game, who just happened to stumble onto Spellscar Oracle + Domain Immunity. Antimagic field is on the bonus spells list for Spellscar, so she can walk around in her AMF bubble and still cast perfectly fine, but enemy warriors are seriously hampered and she's utterly immune to 90% of what enemy casters can throw at her.


Hey, Mark! What, if any, 3.5e material do you convert for or otherwise make use of in your home games? What's your favourite 3.5e class or prestige class that didn't make the cut to Pathfinder?


Sooo, I figured I should ask someone about this before I try it in PFS. Yay, my first Mark Question!

The brawling enchantment can only be applied to light armor. The rules for mithral armor says that "mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations".

Does that meant that I could put the brawling enchantment a mithral breastplate, or am I stretching things a bit by doing that? The rules don't really put any limits on what those 'other limitations' are.

Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Let the FAQoning...begin!

Designer

Thrice wrote:
Hey, Mark! What, if any, 3.5e material do you convert for or otherwise make use of in your home games? What's your favourite 3.5e class or prestige class that didn't make the cut to Pathfinder?

It depends on the game. I have a style for GMing where I draw from a vast wealth of possible options but try to focus on a smaller percentage of them for each game to help channel that game's feel. Part of the reason for that is something I've posted about a few times recently—the fact that if you open up a new magic system (like psionics), even if the system is balanced perfectly by being better at some things and worse at others, you inevitably will increase the overall power of a mixed group substantially, since they can cherrypick what's strong from each set (as opposed to inserting a balanced new system and deleting the old system, which, if they are balanced, always works well).

In that vein, I have one homebrew world where magic is pretty rare and witchcraft will likely meet you with an inquisition. For games in that world, I use a modded version of the old 3.5 warlock that adds bloodline abilities of sorcerers from Pathfinder, and there is literally one character in the world who is an archivist (from Heroes of Horror), who is one of the PCs. That class is strong enough (particularly in a world with no good-aligned clerics) that I didn't even need to give it anything else to make that character work.

In my Jade Regent campaign, however, there are enough Pathfinder options available already that I didn't feel the need to use 3.5 stuff there.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Designer

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Zadim has been waking me up every night with a kukri to my throat, and I think now I'll be able to rest easier. I am hoping we can give you guys something like a new FAQ every week for the rest of 2014. I think the prospect is likely, but not certain. I kind of liked the idea of FAQ Fridays, and these got design team approval last Friday, but turns out we need a lot more work to get a FAQ page for a totally new book than to add FAQs to an old one (that said, now we do have a FAQ page for ACG, so...) :)


Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Zadim has been waking me up every night with a kukri to my throat, and I think now I'll be able to rest easier. I am hoping we can give you guys something like a new FAQ every week for the rest of 2014. I think the prospect is likely, but not certain. I kind of liked the idea of FAQ Fridays, and these got design team approval last Friday, but turns out we need a lot more work to get a FAQ page for a totally new book than to add FAQs to an old one (that said, now we do have a FAQ page for ACG, so...) :)

You ever stop to think that maybe Zadim isn't trying to hurt you, he just secretly wants to be a barber and he's using his kukri to keep you clean shaven?

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Zadim has been waking me up every night with a kukri to my throat, and I think now I'll be able to rest easier. I am hoping we can give you guys something like a new FAQ every week for the rest of 2014. I think the prospect is likely, but not certain. I kind of liked the idea of FAQ Fridays, and these got design team approval last Friday, but turns out we need a lot more work to get a FAQ page for a totally new book than to add FAQs to an old one (that said, now we do have a FAQ page for ACG, so...) :)

Excellent!

Are there plans to put the PDT account to use announcing these? Having the centralized account made it easier for me to keep track of 'em.

Or, are there alternate plans for highlighting the announcement of new FAQs?

Designer

Joe M. wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Zadim has been waking me up every night with a kukri to my throat, and I think now I'll be able to rest easier. I am hoping we can give you guys something like a new FAQ every week for the rest of 2014. I think the prospect is likely, but not certain. I kind of liked the idea of FAQ Fridays, and these got design team approval last Friday, but turns out we need a lot more work to get a FAQ page for a totally new book than to add FAQs to an old one (that said, now we do have a FAQ page for ACG, so...) :)

Excellent!

Are there plans to put the PDT account to use announcing these? Having the centralized account made it easier for me to keep track of 'em.

Or, are there alternate plans for highlighting the announcement of new FAQs?

The PDT account did announce them. It scooped me too, by a minute or so ;)

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
The PDT account did announce them. It scooped me too, by a minute or so ;)

Huh. I have an RSS on the PDT account just for this purpose, the announcement hasn't shown up yet. But they come in fits and starts sometimes so I'm sure I'll see it soon.

Anyway, hooray!

Designer

Joe M. wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
The PDT account did announce them. It scooped me too, by a minute or so ;)

Huh. I have an RSS on the PDT account just for this purpose, the announcement hasn't shown up yet. But they come in fits and starts sometimes so I'm sure I'll see it soon.

Anyway, hooray!

You can always search the user PDT under users and then view the account's posts. That isn't snazzy and automatic like an RSS, of course, but it'll give you the speed edge!

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tels wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Zadim has been waking me up every night with a kukri to my throat, and I think now I'll be able to rest easier. I am hoping we can give you guys something like a new FAQ every week for the rest of 2014. I think the prospect is likely, but not certain. I kind of liked the idea of FAQ Fridays, and these got design team approval last Friday, but turns out we need a lot more work to get a FAQ page for a totally new book than to add FAQs to an old one (that said, now we do have a FAQ page for ACG, so...) :)
You ever stop to think that maybe Zadim isn't trying to hurt you, he just secretly wants to be a barber and he's using his kukri to keep you clean shaven?

Sweeny Todd was a barber.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

While there is a question in here, this is also an extremely subtle suggestion. ^^

For a lot of Paizo fans FAQs are important, but the FAQ process itself is a bit of a mystery - it can frequently take quite a while to issue FAQs or errata on relatively obvious and minor things, like the Hunter's (;-)) missing skill bonus. Paizo staff have on several occasions themselves commented that they're not really happy with the state of the FAQ queue.
The other day I ran across Crystal Frasier's excellent Ecology of the Paizo Product blog posts, which details the steps a Paizo product goes through from outline to distribution (For anyone not familiar with the blog series, it's a great read!), which got me to thinking:

Could you consider doing (or suggest to someone else) a Paizo blog detailing the process around FAQs, and describing how a FAQ comes into being? If the fans better understand the steps needed to issue a FAQ and/or an errata, they might be more understanding that the process occasionally takes a while.

Silver Crusade

Mark do you know who wrote the Bloodrager?

I was just planing out my bloodrager w/ the celestial bloodline.
in the list of bloodline feats there are two mounted feats that look like they were just thrown in there that have nothing to do with celestial blood or the barbarian class. There is no archtype for the bloodrager that benifts from mounted combat and only one barbarian archtype that does to my knowledge. Could you bring this to their attention and maybe
get it errataed. Charge of the Rightous would seem to fit in and Flyby attack would fit in after 8th.


I'm back. Arnold would be proud.

Two characters are tied together at the wrist so that they must remain within 5' of each other. Outside of combat, they can both move together at 60' per round. How do you handle that inside of combat where technically each person must move one at a time?


Kudaku wrote:
Could you consider doing (or suggest to someone else) a Paizo blog detailing the process around FAQs, and describing how a FAQ comes into being? If the fans better understand the steps needed to issue a FAQ and/or an errata, they might be more understanding that the process occasionally takes a while.

Not to speak for Mark at all, but one thing you have to realize is that in cases where a FAQ is truly needed i.e. something was overlooked, there may be no "right" answer.

To put it another way, Pathfinder is an art form. The why/how of the rules are really artistic decisions at their core. The idea that any feat/power/spell/rule does X instead of Y determines the type of experience you want the players to have. So except for typos or a situation where intent was clear but poorly phrased, the Paizo staff have to get together and agree on the art of the game. And if everyone has the same feeling on the art...all the time...then you probably don't need half the people in the room.


Mark has used the FAQs to distract us from the questions that we asked him previously ;) Sense Motive: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (7) + 3 = 10

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark has used the FAQs to distract us from the questions that we asked him previously ;) [dice=Sense Motive]1d20 + 3

Considering that the Sense Motive DC to notice something's off is DC 20, you are now morally obligated as a Pathfinder player to ask no further questions of Mark's ethnics or morality until the next time he slips up.

Silver Crusade

Mark how are you today. Here is another of my pestering requests.
In the forthcoming unchained book could 4 pages be devoted to releasing an updated weapons groups list with all the weapons Pazio has released to the point nchained is released. If the Devs and designers don't want to do this perhaps a PDF of updated weapons groups could be released on the Pazio site.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark has used the FAQs to distract us from the questions that we asked him previously ;) [dice=Sense Motive]1d20 + 3
Considering that the Sense Motive DC to notice something's off is DC 20, you are now morally obligated as a Pathfinder player to ask no further questions of Mark's ethnics or morality until the next time he slips up.

Curses! I'll get him next time!

Shadow Lodge

can an arcanist select a focused school (such as admixture) with the school understanding exploit??

Designer

Matrix Dragon wrote:

Sooo, I figured I should ask someone about this before I try it in PFS. Yay, my first Mark Question!

The brawling enchantment can only be applied to light armor. The rules for mithral armor says that "mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations".

Does that meant that I could put the brawling enchantment a mithral breastplate, or am I stretching things a bit by doing that? The rules don't really put any limits on what those 'other limitations' are.

Hmm...this one is really interesting. On the one hand "other limitations" is a really vague elastic clause. But I do get the sense that they mean limitations from the character's direction, not the armor's direction. It's just my gut feeling; for instance, if there was an armor quality that could only be put on medium armor, I would think you could put it on mithral breastplate (which wouldn't be true if "other limitations" included enhancement selection). I could really see it going either way, honestly, but I'll make the judgment call that if I have to choose between mithral breastplate having medium-only enhancements and light-only enhancements, I'd want it to have the medium-only enhancements.

Designer

Tels wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Zadim has been waking me up every night with a kukri to my throat, and I think now I'll be able to rest easier. I am hoping we can give you guys something like a new FAQ every week for the rest of 2014. I think the prospect is likely, but not certain. I kind of liked the idea of FAQ Fridays, and these got design team approval last Friday, but turns out we need a lot more work to get a FAQ page for a totally new book than to add FAQs to an old one (that said, now we do have a FAQ page for ACG, so...) :)
You ever stop to think that maybe Zadim isn't trying to hurt you, he just secretly wants to be a barber and he's using his kukri to keep you clean shaven?

That might be more plausible if he hadn't killed me during the slayer preview blog...

Uh oh guys. I think I may recognize the writing style of Tels's last post—is anyone sure Tels is still OK? I think that Zadim might be posting from his account.

Designer

Kudaku wrote:

While there is a question in here, this is also an extremely subtle suggestion. ^^

For a lot of Paizo fans FAQs are important, but the FAQ process itself is a bit of a mystery - it can frequently take quite a while to issue FAQs or errata on relatively obvious and minor things, like the Hunter's (;-)) missing skill bonus. Paizo staff have on several occasions themselves commented that they're not really happy with the state of the FAQ queue.
The other day I ran across Crystal Frasier's excellent Ecology of the Paizo Product blog posts, which details the steps a Paizo product goes through from outline to distribution (For anyone not familiar with the blog series, it's a great read!), which got me to thinking:

Could you consider doing (or suggest to someone else) a Paizo blog detailing the process around FAQs, and describing how a FAQ comes into being? If the fans better understand the steps needed to issue a FAQ and/or an errata, they might be more understanding that the process occasionally takes a while.

The Ecology of the Paizo FAQ, starring Mark and a single avatar for the rest of the Design Team. But which is which? Can you figure it out? :D

Note, this is a joke


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Tels wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let the FAQoning...begin!

YAAAYY!!! Thanks for starting the FAQs up again :)

Very glad to see that slayer FAQ come out so early. I was hesitant to play it in PFS without that clarification at least.

Zadim has been waking me up every night with a kukri to my throat, and I think now I'll be able to rest easier. I am hoping we can give you guys something like a new FAQ every week for the rest of 2014. I think the prospect is likely, but not certain. I kind of liked the idea of FAQ Fridays, and these got design team approval last Friday, but turns out we need a lot more work to get a FAQ page for a totally new book than to add FAQs to an old one (that said, now we do have a FAQ page for ACG, so...) :)
You ever stop to think that maybe Zadim isn't trying to hurt you, he just secretly wants to be a barber and he's using his kukri to keep you clean shaven?

That might be more plausible if he hadn't killed me during the slayer preview blog...

Uh oh guys. I think I may recognize the writing style of Tels's last post—is anyone sure Tels is still OK? I think that Zadim might be posting from his account.

Pfft... No way, of course I'-he's not!

<_<
>_>

Designer

Lou Diamond wrote:

Mark do you know who wrote the Bloodrager?

I was just planing out my bloodrager w/ the celestial bloodline.
in the list of bloodline feats there are two mounted feats that look like they were just thrown in there that have nothing to do with celestial blood or the barbarian class. There is no archtype for the bloodrager that benifts from mounted combat and only one barbarian archtype that does to my knowledge. Could you bring this to their attention and maybe
get it errataed. Charge of the Rightous would seem to fit in and Flyby attack would fit in after 8th.

Stephen wrote the bloodrager. Those feats give the bloodrager some other options to play with if they decide to go mounted in a knight-in-shining-armor way, so I think that's cool. You could always take the other 5 feats instead. All of them except Mobility are extremely good options.

Designer

N N 959 wrote:

I'm back. Arnold would be proud.

Two characters are tied together at the wrist so that they must remain within 5' of each other. Outside of combat, they can both move together at 60' per round. How do you handle that inside of combat where technically each person must move one at a time?

You could probably treat it like a 5 foot version of the boggard's tongue ability. Unless one of them cuts the binding, they're going to need to have one of them ready an action for the other's movement. Unless one of them can mount the other, I suppose.

Designer

Lou Diamond wrote:

Mark how are you today. Here is another of my pestering requests.

In the forthcoming unchained book could 4 pages be devoted to releasing an updated weapons groups list with all the weapons Pazio has released to the point nchained is released. If the Devs and designers don't want to do this perhaps a PDF of updated weapons groups could be released on the Pazio site.

I guess that's more of a request than a question. I would say, an archival section like that doesn't really fit the book's theme. It seems like something to do in a weapon-focused PComp or something like that. That said, it is certainly a good idea of something to do.

Designer

equinoxmaster wrote:
can an arcanist select a focused school (such as admixture) with the school understanding exploit??

Non-clerics can take subdomains, so why not? Also Enora agrees!

Shadow Lodge

Mark Seifter wrote:
equinoxmaster wrote:
can an arcanist select a focused school (such as admixture) with the school understanding exploit??
Non-clerics can take subdomains, so why not? Also Enora agrees!

thanks, I gave my fetchling arcanist the admixture subdomain and i can't wait to try it out!!!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

While there is a question in here, this is also an extremely subtle suggestion. ^^

For a lot of Paizo fans FAQs are important, but the FAQ process itself is a bit of a mystery - it can frequently take quite a while to issue FAQs or errata on relatively obvious and minor things, like the Hunter's (;-)) missing skill bonus. Paizo staff have on several occasions themselves commented that they're not really happy with the state of the FAQ queue.
The other day I ran across Crystal Frasier's excellent Ecology of the Paizo Product blog posts, which details the steps a Paizo product goes through from outline to distribution (For anyone not familiar with the blog series, it's a great read!), which got me to thinking:

Could you consider doing (or suggest to someone else) a Paizo blog detailing the process around FAQs, and describing how a FAQ comes into being? If the fans better understand the steps needed to issue a FAQ and/or an errata, they might be more understanding that the process occasionally takes a while.

The Ecology of the Paizo FAQ, starring Mark and a single avatar for the rest of the Design Team. But which is which? Can you figure it out? :D

Note, this is a joke

For your next design team meeting, setup some speakers and a projector in advance. Then you play this in the background.

:)

Jokes to seriousness, I understand that hammering out FAQs might not be the most exciting job around, but if the main roadblock to getting FAQs out is 'getting people to look at it' then perhaps it might be an idea to take another look at the FAQ process..?

Designer

Kudaku wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

While there is a question in here, this is also an extremely subtle suggestion. ^^

For a lot of Paizo fans FAQs are important, but the FAQ process itself is a bit of a mystery - it can frequently take quite a while to issue FAQs or errata on relatively obvious and minor things, like the Hunter's (;-)) missing skill bonus. Paizo staff have on several occasions themselves commented that they're not really happy with the state of the FAQ queue.
The other day I ran across Crystal Frasier's excellent Ecology of the Paizo Product blog posts, which details the steps a Paizo product goes through from outline to distribution (For anyone not familiar with the blog series, it's a great read!), which got me to thinking:

Could you consider doing (or suggest to someone else) a Paizo blog detailing the process around FAQs, and describing how a FAQ comes into being? If the fans better understand the steps needed to issue a FAQ and/or an errata, they might be more understanding that the process occasionally takes a while.

The Ecology of the Paizo FAQ, starring Mark and a single avatar for the rest of the Design Team. But which is which? Can you figure it out? :D

Note, this is a joke

For your next design team meeting, setup some speakers and a projector in advance. Then you play this in the background.

:)

Jokes to seriousness, I understand that hammering out FAQs might not be the most exciting job around, but if the main roadblock to getting FAQs out is 'getting people to look at it' then perhaps it might be an idea to take another look at the FAQ process..?

Ah, but my scheming has given us a temporary end to those roadblocks already, so now it isn't necessary. That's what the scheming was for. We may very well have the ability to FAQ weekly for the rest of 2014 at this point. I don't think it's overly optimistic to be hoping for that.


That would be awesome, both for PFS and for pathfinder in general. :)

Edit: Might as well throw in a question! I realize the RAW/PFS answer to this is most likely no, but how do you feel about letting a character take feats he only qualifies for part of the time?

For example a 4th level druid with a strength of 11 takes Power Attack, which he would normally only qualify for when he's wildshaped.

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
N N 959 wrote:

I'm back. Arnold would be proud.

Two characters are tied together at the wrist so that they must remain within 5' of each other. Outside of combat, they can both move together at 60' per round. How do you handle that inside of combat where technically each person must move one at a time?

You could probably treat it like a 5 foot version of the boggard's tongue ability. Unless one of them cuts the binding, they're going to need to have one of them ready an action for the other's movement. Unless one of them can mount the other, I suppose.

So one's a Succubus, and the other is a Druid...

Designer

Kudaku wrote:

That would be awesome, both for PFS and for pathfinder in general. :)

Edit: Might as well throw in a question! I realize the RAW/PFS answer to this is most likely no, but how do you feel about letting a character take feats he only qualifies for part of the time?

For example a 4th level druid with a strength of 11 takes Power Attack, which he would normally only qualify for when he's wildshaped.

I think that can lead to more oddness than its worth as a general rule. I may decide to allow it in my home games on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes I wish feats didn't have prereqs based on numbers that change so often during play!


Mark Seifter wrote:
N N 959 wrote:

I'm back. Arnold would be proud.

Two characters are tied together at the wrist so that they must remain within 5' of each other. Outside of combat, they can both move together at 60' per round. How do you handle that inside of combat where technically each person must move one at a time?

You could probably treat it like a 5 foot version of the boggard's tongue ability. Unless one of them cuts the binding, they're going to need to have one of them ready an action for the other's movement. Unless one of them can mount the other, I suppose.

A little confused by the tongue reference. Probably because my question was not clear.

How do you facilitate two creatures tied together, who could normally move 60' per round, out of combat, moving 60' per round when in combat. Both characters intend to move together their full movement. So how does one allow that per the rules when each person moving one at a time is a construct needed to manage combat?

For example, can you allow them to move together as a single unit? Treat them as mounted?

Shadow Lodge

what characters have you played?

Designer

N N 959 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
N N 959 wrote:

I'm back. Arnold would be proud.

Two characters are tied together at the wrist so that they must remain within 5' of each other. Outside of combat, they can both move together at 60' per round. How do you handle that inside of combat where technically each person must move one at a time?

You could probably treat it like a 5 foot version of the boggard's tongue ability. Unless one of them cuts the binding, they're going to need to have one of them ready an action for the other's movement. Unless one of them can mount the other, I suppose.

A little confused by the tongue reference. Probably because my question was not clear.

How do you facilitate two creatures tied together, who could normally move 60' per round, out of combat, moving 60' per round when in combat. Both characters intend to move together their full movement. So how does one allow that per the rules when each person moving one at a time is a construct needed to manage combat?

For example, can you allow them to move together as a single unit? Treat them as mounted?

That somewhat begs the questions, though (the traditional "beg the question", not the common misuse). I've seen people try to move when they are tied together, and I'm not convinced that they would move 60 feet out of combat to begin with.

Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
equinoxmaster wrote:
what characters have you played?

For over a decade, I nearly unilaterally GMed, playing only a few short-lived campaigns and one shots, until 2009. In full campaigns, I have played:

Elysiel: Junk-selling homeless tiefling summoner from Westcrown who believed that her eidolon, Mr. Kitty was imaginary. Even though she was shy and hated herself, she created an alternate persona using the Disguise skill who was an outgoing human who became a popular celebrity in Westcrown and eventually the mayor.

Rellinoxshilthansorvalinessin Shasanian: Orphaned Korvosan elven alchemist who made up a long name because he doesn't really know his first name or intimate name, just his nickname. He evangelizes the wonders of alchemy as "the common man's magic" and a potential cure-all for all ills. He convinced another party member to dip into alchemist too!

Edward Sangriev: Brevic noble whose other family members were killed by the Surtovas as part of their seizure of the Dragonscale Throne. He is now the king of the River Kingdom of Sangria.

Marquise Cordelia Livia Cassandra Elysia Perseis: A well-meaning Shelynite wizard who believes in the noblesse oblige of those who are more intelligent than others to educate those who are unfortunate enough to be born into a race with an Intelligence penalty, citing surveys that prove that those races, like nagaji, are less intelligent on average. A Venture Captain in the Pathfinder Society, she now commands a clockwork army (but not all at once...yet).

Arianrhod Thrice-Born: A mysterious fey sorceress and expert in enchantment. She believes that her enchantments have no saving throws, so if one of them ever doesn't work, that foe must be immune.

Memory of Dreams: A half-orc half-Kellid barbarian who venerates the Sun Spirit (Sarenrae) and the Moon Spirit (Desna), he was saved from slavery in Irrisen by the Andoran faction of the Pathfinder Society, so he serves there, following the advice of anyone he thinks is a "Sun Shaman" during the day and anyone he thinks is a "Moon Shaman" during the night. Memory is fairly nonviolent, particularly for a barbarian, and he doesn't believe in killing. If you do kill someone, you should try to remember that this is the end of their story, even if it wasn't a significant part of your own, and try to carry on something of their dreams that isn't evil (if any).

Myrrhine "Rin" and Hektor Ilium: This sister and brother duo were the children of Andromeda Ilium, a Chelish rear admiral, until one day the ship they were all on crashed into Hesmene's Grotto and she killed everyone but Hektor and Rin. Rin believes she was saved by Besmara, so she has become a pirate captain. Hektor met a baby tidepool dragon and became attuned with the sea, and now he is a shaman of waves.

Antiope "Ti": Kicked out of her home by her prostitute mother for costing too much money, Ti made her way on the docks, learning every fighting trick. If there's a tavern in Port Peril, she's been in a brawl there and had to use a weird fighting style in it. Now she's a fairly skilled brawler, hoping to perfect her highly-adaptive fighting style.

----

And there's a whole bunch more of PFS characters who didn't play in a home campaign.

Designer

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FAQ Friday returns! And on actual Friday this time! Look upon our FAQs, ye mighty, and despair!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Sooo, I figured I should ask someone about this before I try it in PFS. Yay, my first Mark Question!

The brawling enchantment can only be applied to light armor. The rules for mithral armor says that "mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations".

Does that meant that I could put the brawling enchantment a mithral breastplate, or am I stretching things a bit by doing that? The rules don't really put any limits on what those 'other limitations' are.

Hmm...this one is really interesting. On the one hand "other limitations" is a really vague elastic clause. But I do get the sense that they mean limitations from the character's direction, not the armor's direction. It's just my gut feeling; for instance, if there was an armor quality that could only be put on medium armor, I would think you could put it on mithral breastplate (which wouldn't be true if "other limitations" included enhancement selection). I could really see it going either way, honestly, but I'll make the judgment call that if I have to choose between mithral breastplate having medium-only enhancements and light-only enhancements, I'd want it to have the medium-only enhancements.

Yea, I got a simmilar 'gut feeling' about it, though I wasn't sure. Hmmmm. Since I'm dealing with PFS I guess it is best just to avoid it and stick with the enchantment on a chain shirt.

I may as well throw a related question your way. The brawling enchantment says that "These bonuses do not apply to natural weapons". However, the Feral Combat Training feat says "While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike."

So, a character who is using Feral Combat Training would be able to apply the bonus from Brawling to the selected natural attack despite the enchantment's limitation, right? Because of the entire 'specific trumps general' thing.


Mark Seifter wrote:
FAQ Friday returns! And on actual Friday this time! Look upon our FAQs, ye mighty, and despair!

Yayy, pummeling style is getting the limits it requires. I wonder if it might get unbanned in PFS now?

Designer

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Sooo, I figured I should ask someone about this before I try it in PFS. Yay, my first Mark Question!

The brawling enchantment can only be applied to light armor. The rules for mithral armor says that "mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations".

Does that meant that I could put the brawling enchantment a mithral breastplate, or am I stretching things a bit by doing that? The rules don't really put any limits on what those 'other limitations' are.

Hmm...this one is really interesting. On the one hand "other limitations" is a really vague elastic clause. But I do get the sense that they mean limitations from the character's direction, not the armor's direction. It's just my gut feeling; for instance, if there was an armor quality that could only be put on medium armor, I would think you could put it on mithral breastplate (which wouldn't be true if "other limitations" included enhancement selection). I could really see it going either way, honestly, but I'll make the judgment call that if I have to choose between mithral breastplate having medium-only enhancements and light-only enhancements, I'd want it to have the medium-only enhancements.

Yea, I got a simmilar 'gut feeling' about it, though I wasn't sure. Hmmmm. Since I'm dealing with PFS I guess it is best just to avoid it and stick with the enchantment on a chain shirt.

I may as well throw a related question your way. The brawling enchantment says that "These bonuses do not apply to natural weapons". However, the Feral Combat Training feat says "While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike."

So, a character who is using Feral Combat Training would be able to apply the bonus from Brawling to the selected natural attack despite the enchantment's limitation, right? Because of the entire...

Ah yes, Feral Combat Training's "as well as effects that augment", an even more elastic clause (perhaps the most saliently elastic in Pathfinder that I can remember right now). In this case, this seems to pretty clearly be a case of an effect that augments unarmed strikes, so it would be a question of which was more specific. It seems to me like Feral Combat Training is definitely more specific here, so I agree that it would override general. In a home game, I would be somewhat leery about the potential effects of the combination when used on barding for animal companions, since a cheap +2 to hit and damage is a major DPR game-changer, but in PFS, I'd say this works as advertised.

Designer

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
FAQ Friday returns! And on actual Friday this time! Look upon our FAQs, ye mighty, and despair!
Yayy, pummeling style is getting the limits it requires. I wonder if it might get unbanned in PFS now?

I believe Style was never banned to begin with, so I doubt it.


Mark Seifter wrote:
That somewhat begs the questions, though (the traditional "beg the question", not the common misuse). I've seen people try to move when they are tied together, and I'm not convinced that they would move 60 feet out of combat to begin with.

I'm saying that they can move 60' out of combat, while tied together. But sure...let's say they only move 50' per round, or 35'. Or maybe it's a magical chain which imposes no movement restriction until you try to exceed the distance or you intend to exceed the chain length.

I'm more focused on how one facilitates this movement in combat that is possible out of combat. Do the rules facilitate two characters electing to move together at the same time? e.g. "we both want to move here...together."

It's simple thing, but I'm thinking it has been entirely overlooked by the rules.

Designer

N N 959 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
That somewhat begs the questions, though (the traditional "beg the question", not the common misuse). I've seen people try to move when they are tied together, and I'm not convinced that they would move 60 feet out of combat to begin with.

I'm saying that they can move 60' out of combat, while tied together. But sure...let's say they only move 50' per round, or 35'. Or maybe it's a magical chain which imposes no movement restriction until you try to exceed the distance or you intend to exceed the chain length.

I'm more focused on how one facilitates this movement in combat that is possible out of combat. Do the rules facilitate two characters electing to move together at the same time? e.g. "we both want to move here...together."

It's simple thing, but I'm thinking it has been entirely overlooked by the rules.

I believe that right now, one character readies an action to move with the other, or they are tethered by the tether (as the boggard tongue ability). This reduces their effective potential movement speed to 30 feet (if they both have a normal single move of 30 anyway).

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