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I just started running an emerald spire campaign so my regular group probably won't be happy if I throw a wrench that big into the game on our second session, but i might try running a party solo just to see how it would work out. :)

Hm... I'd make one small change and say that HP is based on either str or dex, whichever is higher.

That way burly characters can survive by simply 'taking it on the chin' and dextrous characters survive by twisting out of the way 'just in time'.

Dex's initiative vs strength's encumbrance and more important save and general convenience seems fairly well balanced. Even hardcore dex users will probably want a str of 12+.

Designer

Kudaku wrote:

I just started running an emerald spire campaign so my regular group probably won't be happy if I throw a wrench that big into the game on our second session, but i might try running a party solo just to see how it would work out. :)

Hm... I'd make one small change and say that HP is based on either str or dex, whichever is higher.

That way burly characters can survive by simply 'taking it on the chin' and dextrous characters survive by twisting out of the way 'just in time'.

Dex's initiative vs strength's encumbrance and more important save and general convenience seems fairly well balanced. Even hardcore dex users will probably want a str of 12+.

Hmm...considering that variant of the variant, saves have other ways to shore them up (for one of many examples, divine grace, but in general its easier to get a bigger bonus to saves than it is to hit points), so if you were going to keep one thing with Strength for sure out of those, I'd say balance-wise you want it to be the hit points rather than the Fort saves. Something important that you really can't replicate elsewhere.

EDIT: Another interesting side-effect of this change is that it should increase hit points dramatically for brute PCs and enemies, since they tend to have Str>>Con.


That's just it though, I'm not sure dex offers anything as important as HP. A character with, say, 24 str and 10 dex would have about the same AC as a 24 dex 10 str character because of heavy armor, fort and reflex saves more or less balance out, but the +7 HP per level seems much, much better than the +7 initiative bonus.

Maybe if you tweaked the max dex bonus on armor so the dex user is better at avoiding damage and the str user is better at soaking it?

Sorry if my argument is a little broken up, posting from my phone atm.

Designer

Kudaku wrote:

That's just it though, I'm not sure dex offers anything as important as HP. A character with, say, 24 str and 10 dex would have about the same AC as a 24 dex 10 str character because of heavy armor, fort and reflex saves more or less balance out, but the +7 HP per level seems much, much better than the +7 initiative bonus.

Maybe if you tweaked the max dex bonus on armor so the dex user is better at avoiding damage and the str user is better at soaking it?

Sorry if my argument is a little broken up, posting from my phone atm.

Honestly, to tell you the truth, I've not really seen a maxed Str, 7 (or even 10) Dex armor-wearer who can keep up with a 7 Str, maxed Dex character's AC. All else being equal, the maxed Dex character at level 8-10 is going to easily hit +12 between Dex and armor bonus with almost no investment (26 Dex, mage armor). For a similarly low investment, the heavy armor character is getting maybe +9 armor (fullplate costs more than a pearl of power to feed the wizard in exchange for the spell if the wizard is quibbly, and a wand is only 750) and -2 from Dex if they dumped Dex as much as the other dumped Str, with reduced move speed and large ACP (unless a fighter for the latter two). The Str guy could potentially afford +5 on the armor, I suppose, for a +14 armor, but for less than that, the Dex character can grab celestial armor and gain 5 AC as well, plus flight in the bargain.

In this new paradigm, I suppose the Strength guy does also have to spend a feat to get Strength to hit compared to normal. The real loser is the pure caster if you use a point buy system, since point buy should be reduced by about 3 or 4 for the stat going away, and the casters were probably dumping Str to get freebie points but won't do so with hit points on the line. I'm not too concerned that the pure caster wizardy guy point buying to 7 Strength is the real loser.


A thought on an alternative system I've had for a while now is that multiple attacks in a round rely on a higher Dex score.

So, you could have the potential for an attack of 11/6/1, but if you don't have a high enough dexterity, you may only be able to make that single +11 attack.

So a big bruiser of a character could hit really hard, but he's only hitting once. While the super agile guy isn't going to hit nearly as hard, but he's going to get a lot more attacks. The guy who splits dex and strength is going to be able to hit and deal damage, and get multiple attacks.

Although, such an idea would probably require a lot of changes to the current system and would basically need to be worked from the ground up.

Designer

Tels wrote:

A thought on an alternative system I've had for a while now is that multiple attacks in a round rely on a higher Dex score.

So, you could have the potential for an attack of 11/6/1, but if you don't have a high enough dexterity, you may only be able to make that single +11 attack.

So a big bruiser of a character could hit really hard, but he's only hitting once. While the super agile guy isn't going to hit nearly as hard, but he's going to get a lot more attacks. The guy who splits dex and strength is going to be able to hit and deal damage, and get multiple attacks.

Although, such an idea would probably require a lot of changes to the current system and would basically need to be worked from the ground up.

That seems pretty cool too. There could be options in that system for like Power Attacks where you take fewer attacks to hit harder and flurryish attacks where you take lighter damage to hit harder.


Favorite kind of cheese?

Designer

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Cheapy wrote:
Favorite kind of cheese?

Big?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What's the Paizo hazing process like?


Mark Seifter wrote:


Greater magic fang provides an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, and DR says:

Damage Reduction wrote:
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters.

True, but that's no an exhaustive list of what overcomes DR/magic. Nor does the text say

"Only weapons with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus..."

In fact, under the Damage Reduction heading, it says this:

Damage Reduction wrote:
For example, DR 5/magic means that a creature takes 5 less points of damage from all weapons that are not magic.

In that section the rules convey a general sense of magic, not one ties explicitly to +1 Enhancement.

I understand your thought process, but without question, AMOF is modifying your attack through magic, no matter what the end result. Is it possible, the statement you quoted was not contemplating an AMOF? As far as I know, it's the only item that allows one to put a magical weapon special quality on something that is not +1. So in essence, there is no such thing as a non +1 magic weapon. It doesn't exist. AMOF is the lone exception and so that feels like an oversight.

Quote:
Items that use a particular spell do not always follow the same rules as the spell. For instance, if the amulet used the exact same rules as greater magic fang, it could never bypass other types of damage reduction aside from magic, even if it was +5 or holy.

But that decision wasn't about some consistency to the rules, it was about fairness. In essence, Paizo made a decision to "boost monks."

Perhaps you can agree that It seems nonsensical to have a +5 equivalent AMOF and maintain that the resultant attacks are not magical in nature?

Maybe a better question is why wouldn't you let an AMOF be an exception to the DR/Magic rule in the same way it's an exception to the +1 weapon rule before an weapon special ability?


I see your point on AC, but I'm not convinced the upsides of dex can balance out ~50% extra HP at any given level.

I'd love to talk more about this, but i feel like I've monopolized your thread long enough and it's getting really late over here.

I may send you a PM on the topic in a few days when I've mulled it over more if you don't mind. :)


Ahh i see what you are saying about 3pp, im know im guilty of having quite a collection of it i dont use. That being said if you are interested in a product with an eidolon planetouched race, let me know. ;)


N N 959 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Items that use a particular spell do not always follow the same rules as the spell. For instance, if the amulet used the exact same rules as greater magic fang, it could never bypass other types of damage reduction aside from magic, even if it was +5 or holy.

But that decision wasn't about some consistency to the rules, it was about fairness. In essence, Paizo made a decision to "boost monks."

Perhaps you can agree that It seems nonsensical to have a +5 equivalent AMOF and maintain that the resultant attacks are not magical in nature?

To be fair, there are a number of items that use a spell contrary to the spell itself. The biggest one that I always use as an example is the Ring of X-Ray Vision which uses the spell true seeing in it's construction. The conflict in this item is that true seeing goes so far as to state, "True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent." So the spell specifically does not grant X-ray vision, is used in the construction for the item that does grant X-ray vision.

I do recognize this as being more of an issue with a legacy item though. I don't think there is another example of item who's construction requirements are in such conflict with the item itself though.

Shadow Lodge

Most monks get the ability to bypass DR/magic for free. A plain +1 AoMF was a terrible item for monks, and not much better for druids. 6000gp for a +1 to attack and damage? No thanks. The change to allow special properties without an enhancement seems to have been targeted to fix that. The change in price made the amulet more competitive, so the monk has access to his magic weapon later than single weapon users, but earlier than TWFers get both of theirs enchanted. Just the way I see it.

Mark, do you plan to do your class guides for 5e? Or, more generally, do you plan to do any more class guides?

Designer

Tels wrote:
What's the Paizo hazing process like?

A heffalump.

Designer

Kudaku wrote:

I see your point on AC, but I'm not convinced the upsides of dex can balance out ~50% extra HP at any given level.

I'd love to talk more about this, but i feel like I've monopolized your thread long enough and it's getting really late over here.

I may send you a PM on the topic in a few days when I've mulled it over more if you don't mind. :)

No worries!

Designer

christos gurd wrote:
Ahh i see what you are saying about 3pp, im know im guilty of having quite a collection of it i dont use. That being said if you are interested in a product with an eidolon planetouched race, let me know. ;)

I noticed one of those here when the Encounter Table interviewed me. It seemed really powerful. Is it the same one?

Designer

Mystic Lemur wrote:

Most monks get the ability to bypass DR/magic for free. A plain +1 AoMF was a terrible item for monks, and not much better for druids. 6000gp for a +1 to attack and damage? No thanks. The change to allow special properties without an enhancement seems to have been targeted to fix that. The change in price made the amulet more competitive, so the monk has access to his magic weapon later than single weapon users, but earlier than TWFers get both of theirs enchanted. Just the way I see it.

Mark, do you plan to do your class guides for 5e? Or, more generally, do you plan to do any more class guides?

In all honesty, part of the joy of writing a guide is expressing your approval of the blue options and your scathing acerbic wit as you insult the red options, so I feel like in that sense, writing even a guide for Pathfinder, let alone anyone else's system, would be pretty inappropriate for me now.


What if it was a guide to your own material?

Designer

Cheapy wrote:
What if it was a guide to your own material?

You mean like Rogue Eidolon's Guide to the Masquerade Reveler?:

"Seriously, what the heck was the designer thinking when he designed this? I wish I could've been there to—oh wait..."

It would have to be something like SotMR where I had the final say on what changes to commit.


"This must've been the first time the author had alcohol to think this was a good idea!"

I was more thinking like coming up with good ways to fit the themes players want to fill. Suggestions for different archetypical builds. If I ever do a guide, it's going to be for Bards, and it won't be an optimization guide, but it'd be one to help people make well-rounded versions of bards of different archetypical roles. Two-hander bards, support bards, spellcaster bards, sword-n-board bards....

Designer

Cheapy wrote:

"This must've been the first time the author had alcohol to think this was a good idea!"

I was more thinking like coming up with good ways to fit the themes players want to fill. Suggestions for different archetypical builds. If I ever do a guide, it's going to be for Bards, and it won't be an optimization guide, but it'd be one to help people make well-rounded versions of bards of different archetypical roles. Two-hander bards, support bards, spellcaster bards, sword-n-board bards....

Well I've definitely toyed around with some pretty weird Masquerade Revelers. I actually had skeletons of builds that relied heavily on each ability score aside from Wisdom (I mean a Dex build, and a different Con build, and a different Cha build, etc, not one build that was MAD for 5 stats).


Mark Seifter wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
Ahh i see what you are saying about 3pp, im know im guilty of having quite a collection of it i dont use. That being said if you are interested in a product with an eidolon planetouched race, let me know. ;)
I noticed one of those here when the Encounter Table interviewed me. It seemed really powerful. Is it the same one?

nope this product features my babies called the warped.

Contributor

What's the worst job you've ever had?

Designer

christos gurd wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
Ahh i see what you are saying about 3pp, im know im guilty of having quite a collection of it i dont use. That being said if you are interested in a product with an eidolon planetouched race, let me know. ;)
I noticed one of those here when the Encounter Table interviewed me. It seemed really powerful. Is it the same one?
nope this product features my babies called the warped.

Cool. Well, in honesty if I had it, I can't guarantee I'd have time to read it because busy busy. On my off-time I am spending much of it playtesting the alpha versions of my occult classes, but it's going well, and they've reached level 2 so far!

Designer

Alexander Augunas wrote:
What's the worst job you've ever had?

Storytime. In my hometown in Maryland, there is a place usually called APL (the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab). Disclaimer: People familiar with the APL, it's not going to be where I had the bad job. Anyway, APL was pretty much a cornucopia of internship positions for all the high schools with intern/mentor programs that had sciency students. No matter what, there were always enough slots in the APL, making it pretty easy to schedule internships in general. So anyway, I wanted a computer science internship—should be easy, right?—in 2002. Unfortunately, due to security reasons (aka being 2002, less than a year after 2001), that year APL was not allowed to give any new internships. Full stop. You can guess what effect that had. The outflux of massive numbers of sciency students clogged up pretty much every usual contact that school internship coordinators even possessed. I wound up with nothing for a few months. Like literally no internship, and I had a double slot of internship to boot. I was feeling pretty bad. I needed to clock in hours eventually. This was kind of unprecedented. Slots just kept filling up faster than our coordinator could find them, and any slot she tried for had gluts of applicants, another of whom was always chosen. Eventually, it was so late in the year that she in desperation, asked if I would take a job at Arbitron, Inc, which she was aware was not even remotely associated with computer science or even any secondary interests. Feeling so terrible for having made it through over an entire quarter without an actual internship, just getting those two slots off, I felt I had no choice but to acquiesce. She thanked me for doing so. By this point, I had already been accepted Early Action to Harvard, MIT, and Caltech (and I listed that fact in my resume for these internships). Finding an internship was really actually harder than that, it seemed.

Anyway, Arbitron basically compiles the ratings for radio programs, like the Nielsen ratings for TV or what-have-you. This was not at all evident from my internship, which was with Tech Support ("That's like computers, right?"). It was evident that these people did not want an intern. At first, they left me in an empty cubicle for hours on end with no task (and I didn't have a laptop or anything—there wasn't even a computer in there). There was no way they were actually letting me do tech support, or even understudy for them in tech support. They had a lot of strange habits, like they all had candy on their desk, which they never ate from their own desk. When they went to visit someone else's desk, whenever the other person looked away, they would grab a whole bunch of that person's candy. I noticed because I peeked my head out and just watched everything out of boredom.

Anyway, there was this one guy who was more in charge than the others (call him S). He always left at around lunchtime every Friday because he was not allowed to drive a car after sundown on the Sabbath (sundown was a long time after lunchtime). Another really jittery guy who was regularly getting up and leaving the building seemed sympathetic to me and was sometimes trying to get S to add me to a task of some sort that involved, y'know, interning and learning stuff. Eventually, S decided to give me something to do. Unfortunately, it was not something like that.

S's task was this. He wanted every printer in the highrise and in the lowrise across the street labeled. Now, to figure out where the printers were, each one had this number that corresponded, in theory, to a number on a map. Now when I say 'a map', what I mean is that there is only one map of the entire building that has these numbers on it (I asked three people to make sure). It's a giant poster map that lives on the first floor of the highrise, like one of those enormous maps that you pull down on a pullstring like the screen for an overhead projector, except there's several maps one behind another, and the print is miniscule. This is the only source of this map for either the highrise or the lowrise. Now, when I say "in theory", sometimes the printer was not where it was supposed to be, in which case I was authorized to ask someone if they knew where it might be now. Also, the printers themselves were not labeled in such a way to indicate which one was which (after all, I'm the one who was labeling them), so I couldn't just comb the buildings for printers or anything like that. Finally, the regular elevator was out, and I was not allowed to use the freight elevator because I wasn't bringing freight.

Add to this that maps and directions are not my strong suit to begin with (I'm proficient with them and can get around, but I'm not particularly strong, as I am in some other areas for which I have a ridiculously good memory), and you can imagine the problem: I had to walk all the way down, potentially from the top of the highrise to the bottom (or to a different building), in between labeling the largest set of printers whose locations I could memorize (or try to draw a little stick map for, but those required a lot of short term memory to use because the place was a warren). And there were a lot of printers.

Anyway, in my time at Arbitron, Inc, labeling printers was the only thing they ever had me do. So that's the worst job I've ever had.

Silver Crusade

HI Mark, I've got a question/comment on animal companions and armor proficiencies

why does an AC have to take all 3 armor proficiencies to get heavy armor
or 2 to get medium. I understand why armor proficiencies stack for classes. At worst an AC should get the Armor proficiencies of his master at best the AC IMO should buy the armor proficiency for the type of armor his master chooses for him. AC's have no choice in what armor their master buys for them then trains them to use.

My other solution to this minor problem is to make armor proficiencies
tricks for AC's instead of feats.

could I get your input on this.

Silver Crusade

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Mark could you comment on this feat for Swashbucklers
Mobile Combatant (Combat, Panache)
You have mastered the art of moving during combat and can dance between opponents while attacking them as easily as if you and they were both standing still.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +10, and the Amateur Swashbuckler Feat or the panache class feature.

Benefit: As long as you have at least one Panache you can move up to your speed and make a full attack action without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attacks, but not between them, and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed.

If you spend one point of panache, you may move between the attacks you make, though you may still not exceed your movement speed.

Normal: You cannot move before and after an attack, nor can you move and make a full attack action.

So...that looks pretty good to me. It's better than Pounce, but it also has more prerequisites than the things that give Pounce (especially for non-Swashbucklers), and doesn't give either the bonuses or penalties of a charge.

I did not write this feat I found it on a thread about swashbucklers
it is some what similar to the Champion 3rd tier path power Fleet warrior.

Would the Devs consider adding a feat for mobile fighters that gives a bonus to +5 to acrobatics to aviod provoking AOO's while moving or tumbling through a threatened square. The bonus would increase to +10 if you have 10 or more ranks in acrobatics.

Designer

Lou Diamond wrote:

Mark could you comment on this feat for Swashbucklers

Mobile Combatant (Combat, Panache)
You have mastered the art of moving during combat and can dance between opponents while attacking them as easily as if you and they were both standing still.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +10, and the Amateur Swashbuckler Feat or the panache class feature.

Benefit: As long as you have at least one Panache you can move up to your speed and make a full attack action without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attacks, but not between them, and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed.

If you spend one point of panache, you may move between the attacks you make, though you may still not exceed your movement speed.

Normal: You cannot move before and after an attack, nor can you move and make a full attack action.

So...that looks pretty good to me. It's better than Pounce, but it also has more prerequisites than the things that give Pounce (especially for non-Swashbucklers), and doesn't give either the bonuses or penalties of a charge.

I did not write this feat I found it on a thread about swashbucklers
it is some what similar to the Champion 3rd tier path power Fleet warrior.

Would the Devs consider adding a feat for mobile fighters that gives a bonus to +5 to acrobatics to aviod provoking AOO's while moving or tumbling through a threatened square. The bonus would increase to +10 if you have 10 or more ranks in acrobatics.

In general, this is more asking for feedback on some houserule ideas, but I'll go with it this time. The second idea seems sounder than the first though. It's a little too vanilla for me to get excited, but I think off the top of my head it would be a fair addition (if I had it in front of me from a freelancer, I would run math). The first is going to make a peekaboo character like I mentioned on Page 11, where you have to ready an action or you don't get to target the character at all.

Silver Crusade

Mark, this sounds kind of vanilla but what would you think of a large sized dog that does no increase in size as an animal companion. In all respects this is just an upsized dog but what dog person has not dreamed of a large sized canine buddy?

Silver Crusade

Mark, what is your favorite class from the ACG. So far Mine are the Bloodrager, Slayer and Hunter. The Arcanist looks real good too.


Lou Diamond wrote:
Mark, this sounds kind of vanilla but what would you think of a large sized dog that does no increase in size as an animal companion. In all respects this is just an upsized dog but what dog person has not dreamed of a large sized canine buddy?

Heiresses with their Purse Poodles or people who live in apartments. Or anyone who has had a bad encounter with a large dog (me).

Silver Crusade

Tels, you encountered a non-companion dog. Most likely an urban assault
dog.

Shadow Lodge

Any idea how far away we are from getting some FAQ's from the list of candidates? It must be growing pretty big after the Gencon hiatus.


Lou Diamond wrote:

Tels, you encountered a non-companion dog. Most likely an urban assault

dog.

Nah, someone on my path to school had a St. Bernard that was... well, it was blood f+#%ing huge! I have never seen a larger dog in my life, and this bastard broke free and chased me on my bike.

I like dogs a lot, but a dog that stands nearly 4 ft. at the shoulder? Nah, there is a line the one should just not cross. Although, I understand why he had such a dog. That dog was large enough to ward off even Alaskan bears.


Hello, and back for more insight,

Does an improvised weapon have to be used as an improvised weapon before it can be used to make an AoO?

For example, a halfling in a bar is drinking from his mug and the gnome next to him tries to cast a spell on the halfling. Can the Halfling use the mug to make an AoO?

Designer

Lou Diamond wrote:
Mark, this sounds kind of vanilla but what would you think of a large sized dog that does no increase in size as an animal companion. In all respects this is just an upsized dog but what dog person has not dreamed of a large sized canine buddy?

I guess it's more that there are no breeds of size Large dogs in our world, so it would need to be a new breed. At that point, it may even be genetically inviable with normal dogs and be a separate species of some kind. Either way, rather than homebrew all new stats, it might be a good plan to just use the stats for the 7th level Large wolf animal companion.

Designer

Lou Diamond wrote:
Mark, what is your favorite class from the ACG. So far Mine are the Bloodrager, Slayer and Hunter. The Arcanist looks real good too.

I really like over half of them, and I love the subtle ways the hunter was improved throughout the playtest, but right now, I'm really liking the brawler due to my playtest of the alpha versions of the Occult Adventures classes (the non-occult classes are all ACG). The shaman (another playtest party member) I feel comes into its own at a higher level than we've reached so far. If your spirit doesn't grant a great spell or spirit power at level 1, you're kind of high and dry for a while.

Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Avatar-1 wrote:
Any idea how far away we are from getting some FAQ's from the list of candidates? It must be growing pretty big after the Gencon hiatus.

I have a plan or two up my sleeve, but as always, this requires additional resources that are more valuable and in demand right now than I am. There is no amount of trade of my time that can replace those resources, even at a reduced rate, so it's out of my hands. I will have to ask you to trust that I am continually trying to get FAQs, and that I have not given up on them or wavered on my stance upon being hired. As a former engineer and scientist, I know sometimes it is hard to trust without verifiable evidence, but I'll have to ask that of you for now.

Designer

N N 959 wrote:

Hello, and back for more insight,

Does an improvised weapon have to be used as an improvised weapon before it can be used to make an AoO?

For example, a halfling in a bar is drinking from his mug and the gnome next to him tries to cast a spell on the halfling. Can the Halfling use the mug to make an AoO?

For one thing, unless the halfling won initiative, he is probably flat-footed and can't make AoOs. But let's assume he has Uncanny Dodge or Combat Reflexes. In this case, my ruling is that you need to be holding the object as an improvised weapon to threaten. So he needn't have attacked first, but the halfling needs to have spent a free action to adjust his grip. Same as if you want to bash someone next to you with the blunt end of your longspear as an improvised quarterstaff—you don't automatically threaten that spot and the longer reach simultaneously. You decide on your turn by spending a free action.

Now, that means if he's a paranoid sort, the halfling's player can absolutely explain to the GM that they are always holding mundane items in a way to use them as improvised weapons, rather than for their normal use,

Halfling: "After every swig of ale, I always twist the mug in my hand and hold it raised so it's ready to clobber someone. I never leave myself vulnerable."
GM: "Sure. People in the bar start to notice you're doing that. Some of them look around to try to figure out if there's some sort of threat you see, and others eye you suspiciously, figuring you're itching to start a fight."

Also, some items are basically light and thin enough that GMs probably wouldn't let them count as improvised weapons at all. Wands are a good example. It would be like using a tiny twig as a bludgeoning weapon.


I was assuming that as soon as the gnome began casting, init was rolled and the halfling won, but naturally doesn't know the gnome is going to cast a spell until the gnome takes his turn.

1. So it's a free action to take anything your holding/using/wielding to then wield it as an improvised weapon?

2. After bashing the gnome and stopping the gnome from simply chilling his sarsaparilla (whoops!)....the halfling decides it's best to relocate. He moves closer to the bard who is playing a lute and the halfling notices a phat coin purse on the bard's belt. The halfling attempts to swipe the coin purse. Init is rolled, and the halfling wins again. But the bard has Combat Relfexes.

Can the bard smash the halfling with his lute as the halfling attempts to Steal the coin purse?

Using your response above, it seems the answer is yes, but I want to make sure i understand your response correctly.

3. The gnome, quite upset, pulls a dagger and follows the halfling. The gnome moves so he's opposite the bard (so flanking with the bard) and strikes...

Does the gnome get a flanking bonus because the bard can potentially hit the halfling with the lute and thus threatens the halfling with an improvised weapon?

Does the gnome get a flanking bonus if the gnome waits until after the bard smashes the halfling with the lute?

3. Does a wizard with a shield, but no other weapon, still threaten the squares next to her since she can use the shield to make a shield bash, even though she's got no proficiency martial proficiency?

4. Does it matter if she's donning the shield as a shield (and suffering non-proficiency penalties) or just holding it?

Again the responses are appreciated (even though are not immediately applicable to any on going game).

Designer

N N 959 wrote:

I was assuming that as soon as the gnome began casting, init was rolled and the halfling won, but naturally doesn't know the gnome is going to cast a spell until the gnome takes his turn.

1. So it's a free action to take anything your holding/using/wielding to then wield it as an improvised weapon?

2. After bashing the gnome and stopping the gnome from simply chilling his sarsaparilla (whoops!)....the halfling decides it's best to relocate. He moves closer to the bard who is playing a lute and the halfling notices a phat coin purse on the bard's belt. The halfling attempts to swipe the coin purse. Init is rolled, and the halfling wins again. But the bard has Combat Relfexes.

Can the bard smash the halfling with his lute as the halfling attempts to Steal the coin purse?

Using your response above, it seems the answer is yes, but I want to make sure i understand this correct.

3. The gnome, quite upset, pulls a dagger and follows the halfling. The gnome moves so he's opposite the bard (so flanking with the bard) and strikes...

Does the gnome get a flanking bonus because the bard can potentially hit him with the lute and thus threatens the halfling with an improvised weapon?

Does the gnome get a flanking bonus if the gnome waits until after the bard smashes the halfling with the lute?

3. Does a wizard with a shield, but no other weapon, still threaten the squares next to her since she can use the shield to make a shield bash, even though she's got no proficiency martial proficiency?

4. Does it matter if she's donning the shield as a shield (and suffering non-proficiency penalties) or just holding it?

Again the responses are appreciated (even though are not immediately applicable to any on going game).

1) I'd probably call it a free action, like changing grips. That is entirely an improvised ruling, though. The CRB itself is silent, and making it the same action as drawing a weapon (move or part of a move) isn't crazy either.

2) The bard is playing the lute, not holding it like a club and ready to smash with it, so no AoO.

3) No flank yet until the bard changes grips.

3 the second time & 4) If the wizard is holding the shield in his hand, not donned for the AC, there's probably no reason not to say he's always holding it like an improvised weapon, but really at that point why not a club? If he has donned it, he can still make a nonproficient shield bash, so sure, he threatens. Nonproficient (as a weapon) spiked heavy shield with one hand free is my weapon of choice for a tanky support cleric (two-handed reach weapon when you have some Str to play with and want to control more than tank).


Okay, I think I'm understanding your perspective a little clearer, but still confused by a couple of items.

1. So given in your response for #1, then a fighter who uses a ranged weapon, like a bow, can switch her grip at the end of her round and be prepared to make an AoO if one presents itself? And likewise, switch grip back to use the bow normally at the start of her turn, correct?

2. So in #2) even though the bard has Combat Reflexes you're ruling that he's not armed so he doesn't get the AoO to begin with?

3. And this would be true for someone holding a torch or using crowbar as well? That they don't get to use the torch as a club until its their turn and they elect to do so?

Naturally I would expect a player to respond the similar to the halfling,

"At the end of every round, I grip the torch like it's a weapon."

4. So would it be fair/simpler to agree that in a dungeon, everything can be considered to be gripped like a weapon except for when it's being used as a tool, as you are suggesting with the wizard and the shield? And in a social situation, nothing is being gripped like a weapon?

5. If someone was in a social situation and was gripping their mug like a weapon, would that be obvious? Need a skill check to notice? Could a player use a skill to disguise it?

Again, thanks.

Designer

N N 959 wrote:

Okay, I think I'm understanding your perspective a little clearer, but still confused by a couple of items.

1. So given in your response for #1, then a fighter who uses a ranged weapon, like a bow, can switch her grip at the end of her round and be prepared to make an AoO if one presents itself? And likewise, switch grip back to use the bow normally at the start of her turn, correct?

2. So in #2) even though the bard has Combat Reflexes you're ruling that he's not armed so he doesn't get the AoO to begin with?

3. And this would be true for someone holding a torch or using crowbar as well? That they don't get to use the torch as a club until its their turn and they elect to do so?

Naturally I would expect a player to respond the similar to the halfling,

"At the end of every round, I grip the torch like it's a weapon."

4. So would it be fair/simpler to agree that in a dungeon, everything can be considered to be gripped like a weapon except for when it's being used as a tool, as you are suggesting with the wizard and the shield? And in a social situation, nothing is being gripped like a weapon?

5. If someone was in a social situation and was gripping their mug like a weapon, would that be obvious? Need a skill check to notice? Could a player use a skill to disguise it?

Again, thanks.

1) Sure, I'm cool with that. They couldn't then use Snap Shot though, for example.

2) Right.

3) Yes.

4) That would be my general assumption. Dungeons are out to kill you. If you were, for some reason, holding something in your hand in a dungeon that you weren't using in some other way, I'd always assume you had it at the ready to smack someone, particularly if you have Uncanny Dodge or Combat Reflexes, which further indication a predisposition to reflexively react.

5) I would say it would be obvious as long as the brandished improvised weapon was in plain sight. So you could use Sleight of Hand to hide it entirely—a successful Sleight of Hand could equally mean you have a hold of a small sap just under your cloak and ready for a knockout or an improvised metal spoon in just such a menacing position.

Of course, these all delve pretty heavily into GM judgment calls, but I feel that this set of calls would be a fair way to resolve things.


Mark, I was reading this FAQ

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qda

If a wizard can go from wielding to non-wielding back to wielding, wouldn't that mandate that changing you're grip on any item your holding is a free action?

Designer

N N 959 wrote:

Mark, I was reading this FAQ

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qda

If a wizard can go from wielding to non-wielding back to wielding, wouldn't that mandate that changing your grip on any item your holding is a free action?

That general rule is why I said free action. There are other examples of grip change (other than how many hands on it) that are move actions, though, like dorn-dergars.


Mark Seifter wrote:
N N 959 wrote:

Mark, I was reading this FAQ

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qda

If a wizard can go from wielding to non-wielding back to wielding, wouldn't that mandate that changing your grip on any item your holding is a free action?

That general rule is why I said free action. There are other examples of grip change (other than how many hands on it) that are move actions, though, like dorn-dergars.

Right, if the item specifically says doings something like changing its reach is a move-action, that would take precedent. But RAW is that it is otherwise a free action to wield and/or unwield, per that FAQ.


Hey Mark,

I just found the Kapenia Dancer (magus archetype) and love the flavour of it! However, as many people on the boards have pointed out the armour proficiency changes don't really make sense.

They lose light armour proficiency from the start and gain Canny Defense (a la the duelist prestige class) from level 1, but nothing changes the medium and heavy armour additions at 7 and 13th level.

Additionally, the Kensai (another magus archetype) has identical changes to armour proficiencies and ALSO gains Canny Defense at level 1 but DOES get replacements for medium and heavy armour proficiencies by the way of Iaijutsu and Iaijutsu Focus abilities. If fact, both archetypes are quite similar in a lot of ways (e.g. focusing on one weapon and having Diminished Spellcasting).

I feel the oversight of medium and heavy armour proficiencies with the Kapenia Dancer makes it both weaker than it should be and quite confusing. I have tried to search for an errata or FAQ answer but can't find one (eventhough one post does say it has been answered).

TL;DR Do you think giving the Kapenia Dancer the Iaijutsu and Iaijutsu Focus abilities from the Kensai in exchange for medium and light armour proficiencies would be not overpowered for home games?

What are your thoughts on the Kapenia Dancer as whole? Do you think something might have been missed when it made to print to account for the armour issues?

Designer

Mythraine wrote:

Hey Mark,

I just found the Kapenia Dancer (magus archetype) and love the flavour of it! However, as many people on the boards have pointed out the armour proficiency changes don't really make sense.

They lose light armour proficiency from the start and gain Canny Defense (a la the duelist prestige class) from level 1, but nothing changes the medium and heavy armour additions at 7 and 13th level.

Additionally, the Kensai (another magus archetype) has identical changes to armour proficiencies and ALSO gains Canny Defense at level 1 but DOES get replacements for medium and heavy armour proficiencies by the way of Iaijutsu and Iaijutsu Focus abilities. If fact, both archetypes are quite similar in a lot of ways (e.g. focusing on one weapon and having Diminished Spellcasting).

I feel the oversight of medium and heavy armour proficiencies with the Kapenia Dancer makes it both weaker than it should be and quite confusing. I have tried to search for an errata or FAQ answer but can't find one (eventhough one post does say it has been answered).

TL;DR Do you think giving the Kapenia Dancer the Iaijutsu and Iaijutsu Focus abilities from the Kensai in exchange for medium and light armour proficiencies would be not overpowered for home games?

What are your thoughts on the Kapenia Dancer as whole? Do you think something might have been missed when it made to print to account for the armour issues?

I agree that it's likely that just the fact that those other abilities antisynergize with the first was missed. I don't know if it makes the KD weaker, per se, since you don't technically need light proficiency to have medium if you gain it as a bonus feat, so you could wear like mithral breastplate or celestial chain or something, but clearly it doesn't fit the theme, and thus it's gaining power in a place where the player doesn't want it to gain power. In a home game, I would probably offer the player her choice of two of those unique kapenia dancer arcana as the replacements instead of the kensai abilities. I would also probably make the ability damage on a critical be a penalty instead of damage to avoid unsatisfying fights involving Int damage on 1-2 Int creatures.


Hey, Mark! while I understand you can't mention anything specific, I wonder if you could answer a couple questions about Pathfinder Unchained.

1- One of my biggest grips with 3.X/PF is how little mobility martial characters have. Most of them can't move 10ft without losing most of their effectiveness. What are the plans, if any, to address this issue?

2- Martial characters, ironically, have very little martial flexibility, as they usually have to hyper-specialize and spend an unreasonable amount of resources just to be passable at doing something other than full attacking. Can we expect to see different tactics becoming more viable without the need for extra long feat chains?

3- In fact, is there anything that addresses feat chains and feat taxes? Or will we still need to fulfill pointless/boring/underwhelming prerequisites that the player doesn't want/will never use?

4- Are there plans to make the game less... Uh... "Rocket-taggy"

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