Gunslinger and Swashbucker?


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Does anyone have any thoughts or theories on what we can expect from the Gunslinger and Swashbuckler, in terms of how they'll play?

Not specifics, of course, but just a rough idea of how the classes will work?

Thanks in advance!


If you actually want specifics, the swashbuckler has been revealed via video right here

Also, earlier in the same video, without specifics, Mike says - unsurprisingly really - that the gunslinger will have a far better chance of keeping hold of guns (better than normal ranged weapons but with a chance of having to shuffle them back into one's deck with every use) than other characters


Do you think they will both be dex-based, or something else?


very much so, with the swashbuckler getting dex-based-melee in certain circumstances, which is nifty


I think (it's on the video, but I'm at work, so can't check) that the Swashbuckler can use dexterity on a melee weapon that has the "finesse" trait.

The gunslinger has a help with combat from distance ability - a bit like Harsk, but I think you shuffle a card into your deck, rather than recharging. (Again details are confirmed in that video)


MightyJim wrote:
I think (it's on the video, but I'm at work, so can't check) that the Swashbuckler can use dexterity on a melee weapon that has the "finesse" trait.

She can also reroll dice if the check has the Swashbuckling trait. Thankfully the Cutlass has both traits, turning it into a much more effective weapon for her than for others.

Scarab Sages

Unless, of course, other characters also have skills that interact with weapons cards that have the finesse trait.


Okay, watched the video over the weekend and I am even more excited. I can't wait till this set comes out.

I am all pre-ordered, ready to go...

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

To clarify on how these characters work:

The Gunslinger uses Dexterity for her gun attacks (obviously). Most guns have a power that will give you an extra dice of damage if you bury the gun, and if you decide NOT to bury the gun, you roll 1d12 and on a 1 (and sometimes also a 2) you have to shuffle the gun into your deck. The Gunslinger also has a power that affects this... she can use any other card in her hand in place of the gun when it would normally be buried or shuffled into her deck.

Example::
Lirianne has the Dragon Pistol and a Powder Horn in her hand. She runs into a monster, and reveals the Dragon Pistol as her weapon. She doesn't feel the need to bury it for an extra dice, so after the combat is resolved, she rolls 1d12. She rolls a 1, so she would have to shuffle the gun into her deck. She can choose to shuffle the Powder Horn into her deck instead, keeping her gun for the next combat she has.

The Swashbuckler has the ability to use her Dexterity for melee weapons with the Finesse trait, but that's not actually specific to only the Swashbuckler... Lem the Bard has the same power (and I would expect the same power on Merisiel).
The Swashbuckler also has a power that lets her re-roll one of the dice on a check that has the Swashbuckling trait, which is super useful, and it means you're only going to want Swashbuckling weapons in her deck, and she also has an item in her demo deck that you can reveal to add the Swashbuckling trait to any check, so you're going to want that in her hand all the time.

All of this said, if any of you are in the DC/Baltimore area, if there's interest, I'd be willing to run some demos over the next month or so, so that you can see the actual mechanics. I also have a bunch of copies of the promo Ranzak character that I would give out to those that participate in the demo.


The new Lem has melee for finesse weapons ? Interesting, and a welcome addition. I think I heard he has the Craft skill too.

We could see the new Valeros in one of the videos, and he was much closer to his original version from ROTR. (his weapon resuffle power feat is a welcome change, but that's all)

BTW, since daggers are ranged weapons, they are not affected by the Finesse power. :(

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Why would you want daggers to be affected by the Finesse power? They're already ranges, so they already use her Dexterity check. Having a Ranged weapon that was also Finesse wouldn't actually do anything rules-wise.

And yes, several characters now have Craft checks. There are several items in the game that recharge using Craft, and the Alchemist makes VERY good use of his Craft check.


The ships evidently need Craft to repair as well, so it's good to know the skill is quite widespread, rather than almost forcing a party to pick a certain character


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Zoltán Mészáros wrote:
We could see the new Valeros in one of the videos, and he was much closer to his original version from ROTR. (his weapon resuffle power feat is a welcome change, but that's all)

You can also see in the video, Valeros also has some differences in his skills. His Dexterity has dropped from d8 to d6. He's gained the skill Fortitude: Constitution +1, his Intelligence dropped from d6 to d4, his Wisdom rose from d4 to d6, his Charisma rose from d6 to d8, and his Diplomacy dropped from +2 to +1.

Coupled with his ability to get his shuffle upgrade on his character card instead of waiting till his role card makes him pretty different. I'd expect his roles to be much more different from his RotR roles than I'd expect his character card to be different. I'd say they did a good job making him still feel like Valeros but at the same time feeling different. He's still recharging weapons instead of discarding them, he's got d10 Strength and +3 Melee. He's basically your old friend Valeros but you can have some new experiences with him.


cartmanbeck wrote:
Why would you want daggers to be affected by the Finesse power? They're already ranges, so they already use her Dexterity check. Having a Ranged weapon that was also Finesse wouldn't actually do anything rules-wise.

a : Because DEX +2 is better than DEX :)

b : Because it would fit well with the flavor

Hawkmoon

I think most of those modifications on Valeros are minor differences. except the Weapon recharge and maybe the Constitution. Its not really changes his playstyle, as much as it seems for Lem.

I agree that most likely his roles will be much more different, but at this point I' not that interested in him. He maybe even stronger than the RotR version, but I don't think he is any more interesting to play with. (I had this problem with the original version too : big power, but lacking in the fun department)


Zoltán Mészáros wrote:

Hawkmoon

I think most of those modifications on Valeros are minor differences. except the Weapon recharge and maybe the Constitution. Its not really changes his playstyle, as much as it seems for Lem.

I agree that most likely his roles will be much more different, but at this point I' not that interested in him. He maybe even stronger than the RotR version, but I don't think he is any more interesting to play with. (I had this problem with the original version too : big power, but lacking in the fun department)

Ah. See, I think your last sentence is important. You didn't like Valeros in RotR. (And there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think every person is intended to like every character.) I'm not surpised you don't like him in S&S. I think if they changed him too much, people that did like him RotR would be upset that their favorite character was now something they didn't like. They want him to still feel like RotR Valeros, but at the same time have some differences.

If you are looking for a Melee type character that you (based on your personal preferences) might find more fun, then it looks like the Magus and the Warpriest are likely to be Melee types from what I can understand about Pathfinder classes. But a lot of people (myself included) liked RotR Valeros. I don't much like Lini or Kyra. I know others (perhaps even you) do like them very much.

And who knows, maybe after you see his role card you will be interested in playing him. Just like S&S Lini might interest me.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Zoltán Mészáros wrote:

Hawkmoon

I think most of those modifications on Valeros are minor differences. except the Weapon recharge and maybe the Constitution. Its not really changes his playstyle, as much as it seems for Lem.

I agree that most likely his roles will be much more different, but at this point I' not that interested in him. He maybe even stronger than the RotR version, but I don't think he is any more interesting to play with. (I had this problem with the original version too : big power, but lacking in the fun department)

Ah. See, I think your last sentence is important. You didn't like Valeros in RotR. (And there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think every person is intended to like every character.) I'm not surpised you don't like him in S&S. I think if they changed him too much, people that did like him RotR would be upset that their favorite character was now something they didn't like. They want him to still feel like RotR Valeros, but at the same time have some differences.

I think what Hawkmoon has said is spot-on. Chad has said here on the forums that it was a design goal to make playing each character a different experience, and if you don't like the way a certain character plays, try playing a different character. Given that, it would make sense for different versions of Valeros to have the same "feel", while maybe having some mechanical tweaks. If you don't like the old Valeros, not liking the new one seems to be a feature rather than a bug. :)


Hawk, you are only partly right. I1m not a big fan of the orginal Lem either, bt I'm looking forward to his S&S version and it seems to me much more different.

My three less favorite characters from RotR are Sajan, Valeros and Lem in this order. but sometimes I play them too. :)

Regardless, I1m pretty sure that I ill play all characters I can get, including the Class Deck (with a 3rd Valeros) :)

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