|
This is my first time creating a Pathfinder Society character, and actually the first time in many years I've played any d20 system outside of the D&D computer games (BG, NWN, IWD, etc). So I'm not real familiar with the system or what's possible.
So far I've played three games, and now it's time to either remake or level up my character: Voska the Half-Orc. I wanted to play him as a spellcaster that uses "bad" spells but just because that's what comes naturally to him, not as a result of his own morality. He's a bit selfish and materialistic, but still pretty decent. Chaotic Good alignment.
So I started him off at level 1 as a Sorcerer with the Undead Bloodline (grandpa was a vampire!) but now I'm considering multi-classing him into Oracle to get the Bone Mystery for a further focus on undeath and necromancy, coming at it from both the divine and arcane sides. I like that his stupid levels of Charisma work great for both (even though I know Charisma is objectively the worst stat to invest in) and I don't have to split between two different power stats
My issue is that I'd like to be at least somewhat helpful to a group while still playing a character that I enjoy and works with this idea of a mercenary necromancer. I like the idea of spontaneous casting, because it goes back to him using necromancy because that's just what he does. He didn't study it, train and work to be a necromancer, he just IS one. So he decided to make money with it.
But maybe there's a more efficient way to go about that? Or there's a Prestige Class I should aim for, or something else. Any advice is appreciated.
Something to note is that all PCs in this campaign as assumed to be members of the Pathfinder Society, although the society is very accepting of its members and could care less if you work as a mercenary necromancer in your spare time.
|
If you are going to continue to use both Divine and Arcane magics, you may want to look into the Mystic Theurge Prestige class, as it progresses both arcane and divine spell casting, however without early entry cheese, Sorcerer/Oracle is less then optimum, as despite using CHA for casting purposes for both classes spontaneous casters get higher level spells at higher levels (meaning the requirement for Mystic Theurge is further away.)
|
|
I've been doing some internet research and come across the Soul Warden prestige class. I don't see why it WOULDN'T be legal for PFS play, but I also can't 100% confirm that it IS legal. It seems to be pretty close on to what I'd like to be. A necromancer that fights the undead seems pretty awesome.
I have seen the Mystic Theurge, but when I researched that, it seemed the general response to being a Sorcerer/Oracle Theurge was that you'd be terrible at everything because of the slow spell progression of Oracles and Sorcerers.
Maybe the Soul Warden is an alternate option? It doesn't work with both sides, seeming heavily Divine-based, but it has the flavor I was going for in spades.
|
|
I don't mind buying the resource to get Soul Warden. It seems like the only friendly-necromancer potential out there that I've encountered so far. I've got a few weeks before I can level up again, so there's no rush to run out and buy Undead Slayer's Handbook, and lots of time to figure out what I want to do with Voska.
The nice thing about an Oracle is that they get Command Undead with the Bones Mystery's Undead Servitude Revelation. I'd get it faster than waiting for the rank 2 Sorcerer spell, and I'd get an extra level of Channel to count for my Soul Warden powers, since that Revelation gives me a limited form of Channel.
I could dump the sorcerer class entirely and go full on Oracle -> Soul Warden, but I really like the flavor of the Undead Bloodline.
|
The issue with undead in PFS is you can not keep your minions between sessions. This makes for a headache and a gold ache. Onyx will eat at your gold.
Have you read:
ShakaUVM's Methods to Necromantic success
Even tho it is for a wizard you can still ideas from it.
Lastly I would say you would want to be Osirion faction. As they typically do not frown upon the use of necromancy. If you go Osirion faction I highly recommend Playing all 3 Destiny of the Sands. the Boon is freaking sweet. Not to mention part 3 uses 3 tiers of Mythic and that is always fun.
|
|
Soul Warden is PFS legal, but would be better if you did not multiclass Oracle and Sorcerer, additionally, you have to provide the resource to use the PrC. You could do a Sorcerer/Soul Warden, it may seem divine focused, but the PrC works for arcane or divine spellcasters.
I agree. Multiclassing Sorcerer/Oracle will put you way behind your peers with spells per day and spells known.
I have a Fey Sorcerer in PFS (single class) and it's been kind of tough managing resources so far (5th level). I can't imagine being behind even more.
|
|
I'm not sure what you mean, Tomos.
If I was Sorcerer 2, I'd have 5 Cantrips and 4 level-1 Arcane Spells per day.
If I was Oracle 2, I'd have 5 Orisons and 4 level-1 Divine Spells per day.
As Sorcerer 1 / Oracle 1, I have 4 Cantrips, 4 Orisons, 4 level 1 Arcane Spells and 4 level 1 Divine Spells per day.
It'll mean that I'm advancing 1 level slower in my primary class (haven't decided which one will be primary yet) but I still get access to the other side of magic at a basic level, and I get the class benefit of the secondary class, both of which are really nice.
At the moment, I'm thinking I may end up going Sorcerer 1 / Oracle 4 / Soul Warden X, since I think I have to wait until Level 5 to meet the big requirement for Soul Warden: 5 ranks of Knowledge (Religion).
I actually hadn't thought of that at all, Fruian. That's quite a point. I might focus more on destroying undead than animating them. Does that mean all kinds of summon monster spells are generally less good, since they don't hang around between sessions and keep draining your gold every week?
|
|
Whups, I got distracted and somehow mashed together my "Known" and "Per Day" lists.
But still, I don't see how Sorcerer 1 / Oracle 1 leaves me with overall less spells (either uses or known) than going all into one. The big issue seems to be delaying my access to level 2 spells by one character level. That's still bad, but is it THAT bad?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The big issue seems to be delaying my access to level 2 spells by one character level. That's still bad, but is it THAT bad?
YES
From experience, even being 1 class level behind prepared casters like Wizard/Cleric/Druid is rough until at least 8th level. It feels like you're constantly playing catch-up and struggling to keep your spells relevant.
Taking yourself even further behind would be a nightmare.
Fromper is absolutely right.
I agree and disagree with Tomos and Fromper, multiclassing can harm a caster (delayed access etc), but on the other hand don't let them overstate the implications of a one level dip. (EDIT: I dont mean you guys are overstating it, I meant more for the OP not to read overstatement into it!)
Sure a single level dip may be seen as losing out on a level of your primary class for only the 1st level abilities of another class, but there is the following to consider for you;
1) Able to use wands from a different spell list
2) Flavourful for your case
3) In PFS there is no guarantee you will be the same level as the rest of your party ANYWAY. You could be a full no dip wizard and still be a level behind everyone else in your group. Conversely you could also be a level ahead in which case your dip is negated ;)
I am however biased, I'm a fan of dipping (although in my case usually for flavour and some "neat" though not super effective abilities, as opposed to those who dip for optimisation purposes) so take my advice with a pinch of salt.
|
|
At the moment, my plan is to keep Sorcerer as a "dip" level giving me access to the Undead Bloodline Arcana (mind-affecting spells work vs humanoid undead) and a small number of Arcane spells. I'll invest in Oracle up to 1/4, when I can go full-on into Soul Warden.
If I'm correct, because the Soul Warden powers are treated "as previous caster class" then my Soul Warden spells will be considered Divine and I should be able to wear armor and use weapons with only a penalty to my Sorcerer powers (which would be level 1 and fairly safe to accept a penalty on). Hopefully that'll allow me to pick up some armor and weapons and wade on in to smash some undead heads with a big, honking mace.
Does this sound like it'll work?
|
|
I agree and disagree with Tomos and Fromper, multiclassing can harm a caster (delayed access etc), but on the other hand don't let them overstate the implications of a one level dip. (EDIT: I dont mean you guys are overstating it, I meant more for the OP not to read overstatement into it!)
Sure a single level dip may be seen as losing out on a level of your primary class for only the 1st level abilities of another class, but there is the following to consider for you;
1) Able to use wands from a different spell list
2) Flavourful for your case
3) In PFS there is no guarantee you will be the same level as the rest of your party ANYWAY. You could be a full no dip wizard and still be a level behind everyone else in your group. Conversely you could also be a level ahead in which case your dip is negated ;)
I am however biased, I'm a fan of dipping (although in my case usually for flavour and some "neat" though not super effective abilities, as opposed to those who dip for optimisation purposes) so take my advice with a pinch of salt.
You're totally right about all of this.
I think that it can be fun, but my experience is urging me to give fair warning about the difficulty of leveling up full-progression spontaneous casters.
Maybe a healthy UMD score can provide some of the utility the OP wants and represent the character's desire to use 'bad spells'?
UMD (Use Magic Device). It's a skill. Commonly used by non-magic users to activate wands. Requires a DC20 UMD check w/a natural 1 and failure resulting in locking the wand for your use for a day.
At the moment, my plan is to keep Sorcerer as a "dip" level giving me access to the Undead Bloodline Arcana (mind-affecting spells work vs humanoid undead) and a small number of Arcane spells. I'll invest in Oracle up to 1/4, when I can go full-on into Soul Warden.
If I'm correct, because the Soul Warden powers are treated "as previous caster class" then my Soul Warden spells will be considered Divine and I should be able to wear armor and use weapons with only a penalty to my Sorcerer powers (which would be level 1 and fairly safe to accept a penalty on). Hopefully that'll allow me to pick up some armor and weapons and wade on in to smash some undead heads with a big, honking mace.
Does this sound like it'll work?
Your plan is fine and looks pretty solid, though as others have said it does sorta feel a little painful to loose those caster levels early, but as you advance in your career the dip gets less painful and the benefits will show themselves.
For your sorcerer spells known, consider spells like True Strike and Feather Fall as your arcane spells, they will have no spell failure associated with them in armor.
To add to Hawkitans point about armor. You can go as high as a Mithril Chain Shirt for a +4AC with only a 10% spell failure chance (1 in 10 aint too bad tbf).
Of course you may want to go with a heavier armor, I don't know what your Dex is like, which is the big benefit of chain shirt obviously. (very high allowable dex to AC)
|
|
At the moment, I'm reading over some Oracle guides to get a good idea on that. Since I haven't leveled the original character yet, I can rebuild him from scratch before applying the XP. Right now I'm aiming at a combat-capable Oracle with a focus on anti-Undead and general combat spells. Thanks, Sorcerer 1, for Disrupt Undead, Mage Armor and Cause Fear!
For now, I've gone with 14/12/12/10/8/17 and applied my Half-Orc +2 bonus to Charisma for a final score of 19 Charisma. From my first three scenarios, I've got about 1.5K gold that I can use to arm and armor up, but as far as I know, Mage Armor doesn't stack with anything because it's the same kind of bonus as regular armor. So less concerned, at least initially, about dumping gold there because I can use Mage Armor for a while. I've got 4 Arcane spells per day right now, which is nice.
I'm thinking that I'll buy the best weapon I can get my hands on, using my Half-Orc familiarity with greataxes and falchions to my advantage. So probably a Masterwork greataxe, and a set of normal leather, with a buckler. Nice to have some backup protection for when I can't get Mage Armor up, or run out of Arcane spells.
All the advice so far has been really great. Do I seem to be on track with a decent build?
|
Right now I'm aiming at a combat-capable Oracle with a focus on anti-Undead and general combat spells.
Doing that right now! (see profile)
Also I'd also say spend those prestidge points! Don't pick Mage Armor as a spell - instead get a wand.
As far as my oracle went, 6 points went towards weapons and armor (mithril dagger, agile breast plate, Darkwood longspear, but that has since been replaced) and another 2 went towards a wand of cure light wounds. Spending those points really helps gearing up in those early levels - you can save up for a raise dead later.
|
|
What's a UMD score?
Sorry about that. Gullyble cleared it up; UMD = Use Magic Device
I think putting skill ranks into Use Magic Device will help you get closer to your original character concept without sacrificing your ability to be effective. You won't 'fall behind' other casters this way.I think that taking two spontaneous caster classes like Sorcerer and Oracle together will eventually become a frustration for you.
If you really look over the Use Magic Device skill, you can see how a Charisma-based caster will have a pretty easy time getting the most out of it: they get huge Charisma bonuses that boost the skill and make it more reliable.
I suggest that you pick Sorcerer as your class and buy scrolls of the Cleric/Oracle spells that you really want to be able to use.
It's easier to do it this way than the reverse, as a lot of Cleric/Oracle spells are utility and buff spells that work just fine off of a scroll or wand.
|
|
This is my first time creating a Pathfinder Society character, and actually the first time in many years I've played any d20 system outside of the D&D computer games (BG, NWN, IWD, etc). So I'm not real familiar with the system or what's possible.
Play a dwarf fighter or a halfling rogue with Core Rulebook feats. Use a 15(dex),14(con),12,12,12,12 pre-racial stat array for the halfling and a 15(str),14,14,14,12(wis),07(cha) array for the dwarf.
Either are versatile, RP-flavorful iconic characters who can more or less coast on their innate merits without overly subjecting you-the-player to too much mechanical knowledge requirements.
Give the halfling Two Weapon Fighting at 1st level, and the dwarf Shield Focus. If anyone suggests to you that those choices are suboptimal, nod your head and tell them you'll think about it.
Ignore anybody telling you to make any kind of spellcaster as your first PFS character (let alone one in which you're essentially marching into the game system itself cold). -- A good way to gradually dabble in spellcasting is via the rogue's Use Magic Device skill.
Memorize the Withdraw action rules.