Akyrak

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Organized Play Member. 29 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters.


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Sczarni

Thanks, Archimedes! Those are some great ideas. I'm definitely going to be picking up Concentrated Splash, and looking for ways to keep my splash weapons viable into mid-levels.

Sczarni

I like the idea of Splash Weapon Mastery and using flasks as my off-weapon until I get something better to shoot people with. I already have Point-Blank and Precise Shot, which do help.

But now I'm looking into it and it seems that there will be a lot of issues keeping flasks in-hand, since they take so long to draw. Hopefully my DM will let me slide on that somehow, since even Quick Draw specifically forbids its use with alchemical weapons for some weird reason.

Sczarni

I don't have to stick to the +1 Crossbow, it just happens to be the only magical ranged weapon we've found so far. I was given it in a dream by a swarm of magical demon-wasps, so it also has a poison effect. It isn't BAD, but it only does 1d8 damage, and I'm not great at hitting high-AC enemies with it.

Sczarni

avr wrote:
Throwing alchemical weapons - acid is the cheapest - could be more effective since you get to add your Int mod to their damage.

Oh, wow, I actually never noticed that Alchemist class ability. Even a simple Acid flask is suddenly 1d6+4 direct and 5 splash damage. That's not bad at all, especially when you can choose between Acid, Fire and Cold damage pretty easily. If I combine them with a Hybridization Flask, I think that goes up to one attack dealing 2d6+8 direct damage with 10 splash. So definitely a possibility for backup to regular bombs.

Sczarni

I'm playing in a campaign module as a level 5 Gnomish Alchemist. I took the Chirugeon and Wasteland Blighter Archetypes, along with Healing Bombs and the Healing Hands Feat, in order to act as the party's demi-healer. But mostly we do fine with potions and wands, so my healing powers are handy but not 100% essential. Which means that usually I contribute damage to the group in the form of bombs. And they do great! It's awesome!

But even as a Gnome with the Favored Class Bonus, I can only throw 9 bombs a day as a level 5 Alchemist, and we usually have multiple combats between each rest period. These combats also tend to be small affairs, with 1-3 enemies, and usually it's just not the perfect situation for tossing bombs. Sometimes I just need to snipe.

What are some good options to boost my non-bomb damage? My stats are aimed at casting and bomb-throwing, with Dex and Intelligence being my best, and Strength being the worst (it's a 9). I do have a decent AC (19 before buffs) and the highest HP of the party (48). If I can get a recently-looted Mithril Shirt reshaped to fit a Small creature instead of a Medium creature, it'll be even better.

My +1 Crossbow is doing ok for damage, but I'm just not great at using it, since my Feats are being eaten up by bombing and healing. Any suggestions on a low-investment way to do semi-useful damage as an Alchemist when either out of bombs, or trying to conserve them?

I do have Targeted Bomb Admixture for single target damage, but that still uses up my limited bomb supply for the day.

Sczarni

I'm hoping to eventually find a way to heal people by stabbing them with syringes full of Cure. Maybe I could eventually load darts full of CLW into a crossbow and shoot people full of health from range?

A mad doctor can dream...

One of the other players has decided to be a Hunter, so there's another semi-healer in the group. We should be fine!

Are Alchemists mostly a Ranged class? I feel like by dumping so many Discoveries, Feats, and other things on making myself into a healer, I might be a kinda crappy Alchemist... that's my big worry. I still want to be able to buff my friends and deal some decent (ranged) damage while also healing them as needed.

Sczarni

I've done a bunch of Google research, and read threads here, on Reddit, and on some other forums. It seems like the general consensus is that an Alchemist CAN act as a party healer in Pathfinder, mostly thanks to the Wasteland Blightbreaker + Chirurgeon Archetype combo and the Healing Bombs Discovery. There's some extra boosts in the form of Spontaneous Healing + Healing Touch Discoveries, too. A Wand of CLW is pretty boss, too.

'm playing in a game using the Strange Aeons, and the DM is kinda new. So he's wary of me getting TOO crazy with material from all sorts of random books. I think he'd prefer if I was just an Oracle or something, but... I've done Oracles and Clerics. I don't really enjoy them.

What I DO enjoy is the idea of throwing bombs at people to heal them, and fixing their wounds by stabbing a syringe of health into their face.

Does this sort of Alchemist seem viable to keep a party of fairly newbie players alive? Or should I bite the bullet and play something more mundane and more suited for healing?

Sczarni

I'm thinking mostly for PFS, which tends to be kinda strict with rules, but yeah... the Feat itself is extremely vague. I guess Death and Repose work pretty well for a Bones Oracle.

Sczarni

The War Blessing Feat says it requires a Domain or Mystery, so it seems it's designed to be a thing Oracles can get... but I have no idea which Blessings an Oracle Mystery qualifies you for.

"Choose two warpriest blessings when you take this feat. Each of these blessings must be tied to a domain granted by your deity or to one of the two domains that represent your spiritual inclination and abilities."

I assume the "one of the two domains that represent your spiritual inclination and abilities" line is referring to Oracles. Nowhere in the Mystery descriptions do I find any references to which Domains are related to each Mystery. What Blessings can a Bones Oracle or Life Oracle pick from?

Obviously I'd say Death for Bones and Healing for Life, but the Feat specifically says "one of the two domains" so.. there should be a second, right? How do you figure that out? Is the second half of Bones... Darkness? Destruction? Evil? Magic? Do Life Oracles choose from Healing and... Good? Protection?

Sczarni

I just registered on the Warhorn site, do I need to email you anything in advance, like PFS number or character info?

Sczarni

Well, it's a summoning spell, so I think it just pops into existence, like Nature's Ally.
Anyway, the double claw attack seems way better than either of the other options. Not sure why I'd ever tell it to do anything but Claw x2.

Thanks for correcting my hit-die math. I was rounding down, but I shouldn't have shaved off the 0.5 HD, it seems.

Sczarni

My first PFS character, a Bones Oracle / Undead Sorcerer just leveled up, giving me access to the Raise the Dead revelation. Now I can raise a skeleton or zombie with 3HD (my Oracle level is 3). That's pretty cool, except I have no idea how to calculate a 3HD skeleton or zombie.

I've searched the forums and found that there doesn't seem to be a consensus on if you just take the generic "Human Skeleton" or "Human Zombie" template and keep adding hit dice to it, or if you can summon any zombie/skeleton that has that many hit dice.. or if you apply the zombie/skeleton template to a regular monster with that many hit dice. The first choice (just buffing the regular Human Skeleton) seemed to be the simplest.

So I went at it. I'm running off internet resources, since I had no idea that I'd need the Bestiary just to use my Oracle Revelation. It's on my to-buy list, but I haven't gotten it yet.

According to what I've read here on the forums and gotten from the System Reference Document, each a 3HD skeleton should look like this:

Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +0
DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+2 armor, +2 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 12 (3d8)
Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +3
DR 5/bludgeoning; Immune cold, undead traits
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee broken scimitar +2 (1d6), claw –1 (1d4+1) or 2 claws +4 (1d4+2)
STATISTICS
Str 15, Dex 14, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats: Improved Initiative

I took the basic 1 HD skeleton, added +2 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will and +8HP. Does that look correct? I think each HD adds 0.75 BAB, +0.33 For, +0.33 Ref, +0.5 Will and +4HP.

Sczarni

Honestly, if I was GMing, I'd let those abilities stack. You're channeling negative energy for both. It seems weird for one PC to be able to channel a dozen different ways and have none of them work together. Most of my RPG experience is from more cinematic systems, so I'm inclined to say that if something sounds reasonable, it should probably work unless it causes significant balance issues.

The Soul Warden question is odder, because Undead Servitude is a negative channel and Channel Damage is a positive channel. It's disappointing, but going from a negative energy necromancer to a positive energy undead-smiter does seem like it should be less effective than going from positive to positive.

Sczarni

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Wouldn't Soul Warden Channeling fall under the "unless an ability specifically says it stacks with similar abilities" clause? Since it says that.

"Soul warden levels stack with levels in any class that grants channel energy for the purpose of determining the number of damage dice his channel energy ability deals to undead (if any)."

My issue is that it can be read as either saying that *any* form of Channel Energy counts, or it can be read as saying only forms of Channel Energy that deal damage dice to undead count.

As a side question, somewhat related, it seems that the Soul Warden is designed to simply add abilities onto your existing casting class. Your spell progression is listed as "+1 level of spellcasting class" instead of anything unique. Would that mean that Soul Wardens continue to raise their concentration checks, casting DCs and other features as if they were improving their base casting class?

Which leads to asking: do Soul Warden levels help increase the total hit dice of undead that can be controlled with a Bone Oracle's Undead Servitude? It's capped by "Caster Level", after all.

Sczarni

The Undead Servitude Revelation is specifically called a Channel Energy power.

"Undead Servitude (Su): You gain Command Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel negative energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier, but only to use Command Undead. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Improved Channeling, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Alignment Channel."

It's a limited, specific form of Channelling, but so is the Soul Warden ability to Channel Positive for damage. The Command Undead power specifically requires a "Channel Negative Energy class feature" too.

Sczarni

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I'm working on an undead-slaying caster character headed for the Soul Warden prestige class. I just hit level 4 in PFS, so I'm almost ready to take my first level of Soul Warden. One more rank of Knowledge (Religion) will qualify me.

My question is how the different forms of Channeling that I'll have will stack and combine.

From being a Bones Oracle with the Undead Servitude Revelation, I get the ability to Channel Negative Energy (Charisma Mod +3) times per day. This ability is only to use the Command Undead feat, but it does count as a Channel and can be modified with Feats that improve the Channel ability.

From being a Soul Warden, I'll get the ability to Channel Positive Energy (Charisma Mod +3) times per day. I can only use that to damage undead, but again, it counts as a regular Channel and can be improved or modified by Feats.

The big questions are:

1) Do I now have two different abilities? I can Channel Negative X times per day, and also Channel Positive X times per day? Or do I only get X Channels and have to decide if it's negative or positive each time I use it?

2) When using the Soul Warden Positive Channel, do my levels in Bone Oracle (4 of them) add to my damage? The Soul Warden text says that "Soul warden levels stack with levels in any class that grants channel energy for the purpose of determining the number of damage dice his channel energy ability deals to undead (if any)." And I DO get Channel Energy from being a Bone Oracle, it's just a different type and for a specific reason. I still have it. So I should be able to count those 4 levels of Oracle towards my damage dice for Channel Positive?

Man, I love me some Pathfinder but there's just so many rules questions! Especially when I'm playing PFS and I can't always rely on what I think is the "intent" of the rules. Each DM is different. Darn individuality.

Sczarni

I figure that if Handle Animal doesn't work on plant companions, then Treesingers aren't just weak, they're basically unplayable. They'd have no way at all to control or use their companions. Why even include it as an option to have a plant companion if it's not functional?

But, people being technical about wording has been something I'm fairly used to. I guess I'll just make the Treesinger and see how things go. I might post this question in the PFS forum, it just seemed more Rulesy.

Sczarni

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I've done some basic searching and not come up with a good answer for this: can Treesingers train their plant companions? Teach them extra tricks (beyond the Bonus Tricks) or train them to a general purpose? Push them, etc?

It seems the intent is for Treesingers to treat their plant companions as if they were animals, but the matter of using Handle Animal on your plant companion is never mentioned that I can see. Without it, how do you control or influence your companion at all? With.. Knowledge (Nature) or Survival or something?

The Treesinger is such a great, flavorful idea... but it seems like there are a LOT of questions involved in their rules that just never got answered in the limited space given to them. A Treesinger FAQ would be amazing.

This question is specifically for Pathfinder Society play, but it's a rules question. The Treesinger archetype is legal for PFS, that's not the issue. So anything like "Ask your DM" or "House rules" aren't helpful because I'd like to play this character with a variety of groups.

Sczarni

It did fill up, but I've waitlisted for the event.

Sczarni

I would like to participate, but I've never done online PFS before. I'm familiar enough with Google Hangouts, and I have a Roll20 account that I've never used. So I'm fairly new to both the online tools and PFS in general. Is that a problem?

Sczarni

At this point it really looks like I'm just keeping the Sorcerer class to get a benefit to my necromancy: the Undead Bloodline Arcana power. I get some nice minor bonuses like Eschew Materials, some low-level Arcane Spells and extra class skills, but mostly the Bloodline Arcana is just really fun.

Sczarni

At the moment, I'm reading over some Oracle guides to get a good idea on that. Since I haven't leveled the original character yet, I can rebuild him from scratch before applying the XP. Right now I'm aiming at a combat-capable Oracle with a focus on anti-Undead and general combat spells. Thanks, Sorcerer 1, for Disrupt Undead, Mage Armor and Cause Fear!

For now, I've gone with 14/12/12/10/8/17 and applied my Half-Orc +2 bonus to Charisma for a final score of 19 Charisma. From my first three scenarios, I've got about 1.5K gold that I can use to arm and armor up, but as far as I know, Mage Armor doesn't stack with anything because it's the same kind of bonus as regular armor. So less concerned, at least initially, about dumping gold there because I can use Mage Armor for a while. I've got 4 Arcane spells per day right now, which is nice.

I'm thinking that I'll buy the best weapon I can get my hands on, using my Half-Orc familiarity with greataxes and falchions to my advantage. So probably a Masterwork greataxe, and a set of normal leather, with a buckler. Nice to have some backup protection for when I can't get Mage Armor up, or run out of Arcane spells.

All the advice so far has been really great. Do I seem to be on track with a decent build?

Sczarni

What's a UMD score?

Sczarni

At the moment, my plan is to keep Sorcerer as a "dip" level giving me access to the Undead Bloodline Arcana (mind-affecting spells work vs humanoid undead) and a small number of Arcane spells. I'll invest in Oracle up to 1/4, when I can go full-on into Soul Warden.

If I'm correct, because the Soul Warden powers are treated "as previous caster class" then my Soul Warden spells will be considered Divine and I should be able to wear armor and use weapons with only a penalty to my Sorcerer powers (which would be level 1 and fairly safe to accept a penalty on). Hopefully that'll allow me to pick up some armor and weapons and wade on in to smash some undead heads with a big, honking mace.

Does this sound like it'll work?

Sczarni

Whups, I got distracted and somehow mashed together my "Known" and "Per Day" lists.

But still, I don't see how Sorcerer 1 / Oracle 1 leaves me with overall less spells (either uses or known) than going all into one. The big issue seems to be delaying my access to level 2 spells by one character level. That's still bad, but is it THAT bad?

Sczarni

I'm not sure what you mean, Tomos.

If I was Sorcerer 2, I'd have 5 Cantrips and 4 level-1 Arcane Spells per day.
If I was Oracle 2, I'd have 5 Orisons and 4 level-1 Divine Spells per day.
As Sorcerer 1 / Oracle 1, I have 4 Cantrips, 4 Orisons, 4 level 1 Arcane Spells and 4 level 1 Divine Spells per day.

It'll mean that I'm advancing 1 level slower in my primary class (haven't decided which one will be primary yet) but I still get access to the other side of magic at a basic level, and I get the class benefit of the secondary class, both of which are really nice.

At the moment, I'm thinking I may end up going Sorcerer 1 / Oracle 4 / Soul Warden X, since I think I have to wait until Level 5 to meet the big requirement for Soul Warden: 5 ranks of Knowledge (Religion).

I actually hadn't thought of that at all, Fruian. That's quite a point. I might focus more on destroying undead than animating them. Does that mean all kinds of summon monster spells are generally less good, since they don't hang around between sessions and keep draining your gold every week?

Sczarni

I don't mind buying the resource to get Soul Warden. It seems like the only friendly-necromancer potential out there that I've encountered so far. I've got a few weeks before I can level up again, so there's no rush to run out and buy Undead Slayer's Handbook, and lots of time to figure out what I want to do with Voska.

The nice thing about an Oracle is that they get Command Undead with the Bones Mystery's Undead Servitude Revelation. I'd get it faster than waiting for the rank 2 Sorcerer spell, and I'd get an extra level of Channel to count for my Soul Warden powers, since that Revelation gives me a limited form of Channel.

I could dump the sorcerer class entirely and go full on Oracle -> Soul Warden, but I really like the flavor of the Undead Bloodline.

Sczarni

I've been doing some internet research and come across the Soul Warden prestige class. I don't see why it WOULDN'T be legal for PFS play, but I also can't 100% confirm that it IS legal. It seems to be pretty close on to what I'd like to be. A necromancer that fights the undead seems pretty awesome.

I have seen the Mystic Theurge, but when I researched that, it seemed the general response to being a Sorcerer/Oracle Theurge was that you'd be terrible at everything because of the slow spell progression of Oracles and Sorcerers.

Maybe the Soul Warden is an alternate option? It doesn't work with both sides, seeming heavily Divine-based, but it has the flavor I was going for in spades.

Sczarni

This is my first time creating a Pathfinder Society character, and actually the first time in many years I've played any d20 system outside of the D&D computer games (BG, NWN, IWD, etc). So I'm not real familiar with the system or what's possible.

So far I've played three games, and now it's time to either remake or level up my character: Voska the Half-Orc. I wanted to play him as a spellcaster that uses "bad" spells but just because that's what comes naturally to him, not as a result of his own morality. He's a bit selfish and materialistic, but still pretty decent. Chaotic Good alignment.

So I started him off at level 1 as a Sorcerer with the Undead Bloodline (grandpa was a vampire!) but now I'm considering multi-classing him into Oracle to get the Bone Mystery for a further focus on undeath and necromancy, coming at it from both the divine and arcane sides. I like that his stupid levels of Charisma work great for both (even though I know Charisma is objectively the worst stat to invest in) and I don't have to split between two different power stats

My issue is that I'd like to be at least somewhat helpful to a group while still playing a character that I enjoy and works with this idea of a mercenary necromancer. I like the idea of spontaneous casting, because it goes back to him using necromancy because that's just what he does. He didn't study it, train and work to be a necromancer, he just IS one. So he decided to make money with it.

But maybe there's a more efficient way to go about that? Or there's a Prestige Class I should aim for, or something else. Any advice is appreciated.