I only ask this because the books says you can only train a magical beast if its intelligence is 2 or lower(basically 2 or 1). What if you were to use a spell or poison that affects intelligence on a magical beast,see what the average time for the creature to die,(or just meta-game and look it up in the bestiaries) cast a dispel magic or neutalize poison spell on the creature and then begin training it? If done fast enough, or with continued ability damage, you could keep its intelligence low and have a war trained magical beast. Then use enchantment spells to force it to be friendly, so it's still trained, but its score eventually heals to full, so you have a smart, (brainwashed) mount.
That is a horrifically evil thing to do. I just... I can't...
Still, I think it might work. You'd have to make sure it's int never got above 2 during the training though.
I think it Might work but if it ever regains its int it will not love you for it. Imagine someone causing brain damage on you in order to teach you to roll over and play dead?
I would allow it but like every Evil scheme it would come back and bite you at some time or another.
I only ask this because the books says you can only train a magical beast if its intelligence is 2 or lower(basically 2 or 1). What if you were to use a spell or poison that affects intelligence on a magical beast,see what the average time for the creature to die,(or just meta-game and look it up in the bestiaries) cast a dispel magic or neutalize poison spell on the creature and then begin training it? If done fast enough, or with continued ability damage, you could keep its intelligence low and have a war trained magical beast. Then use enchantment spells to force it to be friendly, so it's still trained, but its score eventually heals to full, so you have a smart, (brainwashed) mount.
What would this accomplish that having a friendly Int 3 beast doesn't?
I know I'm a terrible person. Besides, I did say that to make it love you, you brainwash it with enchantment spells. The person that does this will only be out to do this to better his position or standing while simutaneously getting an amazing creature to be his mount, while still being smart. Brainwashed, but smart.
@Pupsocket: A friendly beast would have the chance of turning it's back on you the moment you do something it doesn't like. Just cause something is stupid doesn't mean it doesn't recognize evil. Plus this way, you could war train a multiped that couldn't normally be trained, and if it's intelligence started really high, still have someone for conversation.
I am a highly evil person. I'm not the type to kill my party, but I come up with stuff that even the gods would smite me for, given the chance. Of course, a few of those gods would also see me as someone who they could take notes from or give a congratulatory magical item or power increase. The world is my plaything, and I don't want to break the whole thing. Just a little bit here and there so it works better.
Well there's the Monstrous Mount feats from Animal Archive, Knights of the Inner Sea, and Inner Sea Combat books. Those let you legitimately take magical beasts for mounts/companions.
There's also the Collar of the True Companion. Anything that's not an animal(I.E. a magical beast) who wears it for more than a week becomes feebleminded till it's taken off. If you want to get down right nasty you could Inscribe the collar as a Magical Tattoo. Then the target could never get it off without an Erase spell or physically scrapping/burning the tattoo off.
I think it works by RAW, but as a GM I would say it is evil, and if the monster was free for even a short time you might be in a lot of trouble, unless you can defeat it.
PS: It was an interesting idea though.
Is there anything preventing you from doing this to an outsider? A humanoid?
You can do some evil things with this.
Well, for outsiders, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, etc, you might as well stick with enchantment spells. You get a new cohort while running the risk that if you ever don't get the spell renewed or permancied onto the creature that it would eventually have the chance to get back at you. Always seen enchanters with potential for more evil than necromancers, since they can brainwash living creatures, and with the right metamagic,(it's in the ultimate magic, can't remember its name) you can have enchantment spells effect undead. Almost a trump card over necros, cause either you have his minions kill them or capture them so you can brainwash him and have a new minion. Who can then continue to make more undead for you ever growing army of living and dead zombies.
Is there anything preventing you from doing this to an outsider? A humanoid?
You can do some evil things with this.
There are no rules saying you can train outsiders and humans.
About the not being able to train outsiders/humans, the only rule I could find for training magical beasts was this:
Low Intelligence Non-Animals You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do.
Seems like it would apply to anything with 2 or 1 Intelligence.
That being said, BulletKnight has a point about there not being much of a reason to at all. Just figured it was worth mentioning.
That is absolutely horrifying and evil. I love it. It's great for an evil character.
It is a most evil thing to do, however:
Feeblemind to begin the training, then Heal to restore their mind. Assuming you can cast the Feeblemind without the target knowing it was you, you could be the hero to them by being the one recognized as restoring them to normal. That won't change their basic nature, so unless the magical beast is lawful, it still might kill everyone nearby (including you).
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1) Intelligence damage don't lower a creature intelligence score. It only applies a modifier to its skills.
You need intelligence drain.
Hard to find something that do it.
2) After doing that you are interacting with a brain damage exemplar of its race, not a animal intelligence creature. He will lose a lot of skills and be unable to speak or compered languages, even those he would normally know.
3) It is for handling animals, but I would apply this modifier to your attempt to train the creature: "If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2".
As it is a brain damaged exemplar of a creature that normally operate with a higher level of intelligence I would treat it as way less cunning that a normal animal with the same level of intelligence. The normal instincts of an animal allow it to manage his abilities with great efficiency. A creature that normally use reasoning to determine its actions will have troubles if its brain is damaged to the point that it will have a animal level of intelligence.
I agree with Diego Rossi. You need something that deals intelligence drain, not damage. A human with 10 intelligence damage, still has whatever original intelligence is, but also has a penalty to it. It does not give him X-10 int. So, this doesn't work with things that cause damage.
If you can find a way to cause int drain then it will work, but as Diego pointed out, you now have a magical beast with the actual intelligence of a regular animal. Loss of skills, communication, and perhaps even control of it's su or sp abilities (up to the GM).
I only ask this because the books says you can only train a magical beast if its intelligence is 2 or lower(basically 2 or 1). What if you were to use a spell or poison that affects intelligence on a magical beast,see what the average time for the creature to die,(or just meta-game and look it up in the bestiaries) cast a dispel magic or neutalize poison spell on the creature and then begin training it? If done fast enough, or with continued ability damage, you could keep its intelligence low and have a war trained magical beast. Then use enchantment spells to force it to be friendly, so it's still trained, but its score eventually heals to full, so you have a smart, (brainwashed) mount.
This reminds me of the guy who would kidnap people, pour acid into their brains, and then have a brand new living sex zombie.