how do I hold my class ability?


Rules Questions


this is two separate questions, and both of them are the same question

a) I wish to use bardic performance with a flute in battle. Presumably I'm playing on a flute in the middle of combat (even if it's a no-action maintain effect). If I want to swing a sword or cast spells as well, then I had best be able to keep at least one hand free. The only one-handed wind instrument I can think of is the harmonica.

a1) Do harmonicas exist on Golarion?
a2) Can anyone else think of a one-handed wind instrument? One that I can stash in a hand while casting spells (ie, it can't be strapped to my face), and doesn't require me to use a glove of storing to switch my weapon for my flute twice a round. You'd still have some trouble switching from melee to ranged to spell...but you could attach a weapon cord to a shortsword on your other arm, and still be able to 'draw' it as a move action if you needed it.

Oh! The trumpet works. I keep thinking there's a Perform (brass) skill...even a modern trumpet you could stick in place with a locked gauntlet, and still strap a buckler onto the arm.

b) I wish to wave a banner around, either with Flagbearer or the cavalier banner ability. I have seen pictures of the nifty samurai armor flag gadget, but I have never seen rules for such in PF. So, presumably I need a hand to carry something long with a flag attached to it, such as a lance or a really long trumpet (like that one prestige class picture).

b1) Are there rules for attaching a flag to the back of your armor?
b2) Is there such a thing as a flag holster for a horse? So you could, for instance use a two-handed weapon on horseback and your flag would be waving around.

c) what's the best one-handed ranged weapon? simple, martial, exotic
d) if I've got a weapon-corded weapon dangling from my wrist, can I draw and throw a javelin with that hand?

4 questions...ish


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

I was going to say a bugle is a one-handed instrument, but you figured that out too.

The Flagbearer archetype specifically calls out requiring a hand, so the samurai flag won't function for it. "You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus."

b2: There are things that attach to a stirrup that allow the butt of the flagstaff to be supported so that you only need one hand to hold it.

With my DM hat on, no you can't throw a javelin with a hand that's encumbered by a weapon dangling from a cord, but there's no RAW for that.


Quote:
Weapon cords are 2-foot-long leather straps that attach your weapon to your wrist. If you drop your weapon or are disarmed, you can recover it as a move action*, and it never moves any further away from you than an adjacent square. However, you cannot switch to a different weapon without first untying the cord (a full-round action) or cutting it (a move action or an attack, hardness 0, 0 hp). Unlike a locked gauntlet, you can still use a hand with a weapon cord, though a dangling weapon may interfere with finer actions.

The bold text precludes tossing javelins with a weapon dangling from the throwing hand.

As for performing during combat, that's when my bard breaks into song (or whistles, or dances, or taunts with scathing insults) if he needs his hands free. Most bard abilities don't actually require a Perform check, so there's nothing stopping one from using a different performance method for those abilities.


See if you can convince your DM to let you put the flute on a leather cord and clench it between your teeth. Mundane necklaces don't take up a magic slot.


You could just sing (unless you want to toot your own horn).


Most Bardic Performances do not require a specific perform skill and thus do not require an instrument. Only Countersong and Distraction require a specific skill and only Countersong may require an instrument (Distraction has no instrument based perform skills).

Thus, you should have an instrument for when you need to use Countersong but do not need to use it otherwise. Frankly, I suggest instrument-less perform skill such as Sing (Countersong) so you won't need an instrument for combat purposes.

Grand Lodge

Ipslore the Red wrote:
See if you can convince your DM to let you put the flute on a leather cord and clench it between your teeth. Mundane necklaces don't take up a magic slot.

a flute requires two hands in addition to your mouth.


Gauss wrote:

Most Bardic Performances do not require a specific perform skill and thus do not require an instrument. Only Countersong and Distraction require a specific skill and only Countersong may require an instrument (Distraction has no instrument based perform skills).

Thus, you should have an instrument for when you need to use Countersong but do not need to use it otherwise. Frankly, I suggest instrument-less perform skill such as Sing (Countersong) so you won't need an instrument for combat purposes.

This. A bard can function perfectly well (Distraction and Countersong ain't much) with zero ranks in perform.


Get a super durable or even adamant or mithral flute, improvised weapon and catch off guard and beat them a flute like illusion of gaia.


Just as an addendum, this feels a lot like the 3.5 version of Bardic Performance where, to use a Bard's main class feature, he could do nothing else and was basically useless.

Example of a Bard doing nothing: The Gamers: Dorkness Rising Cue the time up to 32:10 (start of battle). 32:50 is where the 3.5 Bard is useless. Do you really want to be this useless? :)

Sczarni

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The O.P. wrote:
a2) Can anyone else think of a one-handed wind instrument?

The voovoozela? You know, the super annoying soccer horn? Get an Adamantine one and club people with it. 2-hand that bad boy for 1.5x STR and 3:1 Power Attack damage when one of those hooligan fans cheering for the other team gets in your grill.


oh one handed instrument...
cowbell? snaping fingers? I'm actually pretty curious if you could get away with stuff like those


Wind instruments I guess can be played onehanded:
- Panpipes
- horn

Besides: Gauss and Zhayne are right you do not have to play all the time. But I understand if you want to.
How about armor spikes for attacking? Leaves both hands free for playing and casting.


ngc7293 wrote:
You could just sing (unless you want to toot your own horn).

Singing or oratory is almost always the best choice for how to do a performance in battle, since it leaves hands free. Other than flavor (which can be important, of course) or having a magic instrument that buffs your performances, there's not much reason to ever pick an instrument-based performance for a combat bard.


Thanks for all the cool suggestions. I was trying to make an animal speaker bard that acts a bit like Lem, the iconic bard (who just so happens to be toting around a big flute).

Bardic performance actually has no range (you just have to hear it), so a non-loud performance (such as comedy) would have limited range. A trumpet or horn would actually work great.

I have no idea what sort of soccer player would have their courage be inspired by anyone playing a vuvuzela.

So, basically, I could leave a hand to an instrument (or a flag), and that arm could also be using a buckler. If I tied the flag to a lance, then if I needed to switch to a close melee weapon, I could switch hands with the lance (which is improbably a free action), and draw a sword as a move.

Panpipes are specifically called out as existing in Pathfinder (there are magic versions of same), and it doesn't feel weird to summon a swarm of rats with them (unlike a harmonica, which I guess would summon hobo rats).

So now my last question is this: how do you switch between a melee weapon and a ranged weapon where

a) the melee weapon is good (ie, not a spiked gauntlet or an adamantine trumpet or similar)
b) without dropping the melee weapon on the ground
c) without carrying two things in the off hand (you've got one hand already on an instrument or flag)
d) without a glove of storing

Could you drop your melee weapon, and use Handle Animal to have your mount catch it in their teeth (using the Fetch trick)? Dropping is a free action, but what sort of action is it for a mount to catch a dropping object?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

My bard often has an unseen servant with standing orders to pick up any weapon dropped and bring it to the bard.


You and I might be into different comedians if your impression of comedians is "non-loud".

All joking aside, depending on what level you're starting at and what level you think you're going to get to, I would note that sing and wind cover non-overlapping skills and are quite effective via versatile performance. For flavor, you could sing in smaller quarters, where everyone can hear you anyway, and whip out a horn if you want to be heard far and wide.


I have a collection of folk flutes from around the world, and there are two different styles: transverse flutes that you hold out to the side (like the modern concert flutes) and end blown flutes that you hold down in front of you (more like a modern clarinet). You can play any end-blown flute with one hand, but you'll have only about 6-8 notes available because you can only work the upper holes and the thumb. (I have two different end-blown flutes that have fewer then 5 holes naturally: a pentatonic scale and a Chinese meditation flute.) This same trick also works with recorders, penny whistles, and some end-blown reed instruments like the zurna, duduk, and clarinet.

Pan pipes are easily played one-handed, as are certain styles of ocarinas and "bird whistles" (a tiny high-pitched ocarina with about 3 notes).

The best source of information I've found for folk and historical instruments of all kinds is Lark in the Morning.

The Exchange

Don't forget kazoos!

Although, honestly, if you're playing a kazoo, the monsters may choose to target you exclusively.


You could do the symbols between your knees, but I'm sure there would be a stealth penalty...


There is a style of headgear that you can mount a harmonica that will hold it in place in front of your mouth. Its seen in one man band performances so that the performer has his hands free while still using it.

I'm going to echo the others and say even if you specialize in wind or brass nothing stops you from just singing a ditty for combat.


If you're willing to sink a feat into Exotic Weapon Proficiency, you could solve your wind instrument and banner problems with a Totem Spear.

You can make Performance (Wind Instrument) checks with it, you get a +2 competence bonus to Acrobatics checks, it deals Piercing or Slashing damage, and I'm pretty sure you can attach a banner to it.


Attach two banners to a really long rain stick?


Oh, wait, I know this one!

(Pinkie Pie playing accordion, harmonica, banjo, and tuba all at once.)


One more suggestion: If you carry either a banner or a flute in to battle make it a sturdy one and take the improvised defence trait. That way you get a shield bonus for doing so.

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