Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Current plan is the bonus is equal to your place in the list -10 as a percentage, min 0%. So settlements in the top ten places, not including the three early entrants, will not get a bonus for staying put. The 11th place settlement will get a 1% bonus per week it remains in place, while the last place one will get...probably a 15% bonus? In the case of ties we count all settlements with the same number of people as having a place equal to the first settlement on the list with that number of people. So everyone at 6 would get the same bonus.
This system is in place in the hopes of helping weaker settlements not get completely rooked, while not giving any additional aid to the big dogs who are already sitting pretty. Now there are sufficient variations between the top and bottom settlements that this bonus may not matter for everyone, but the longer you stay put the better off you are.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To add to DeciusBrutus's questions:
Assuming the percentages accumulate from week to week do they just add up (eg. 10% this week + 10% next week etc giving 20% bonus) or is it more like compound interest (1.1^2 = 1.21, ie. 21% bonus.)? Over the course of several weeks that can potentially make a difference.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm probably completely overlooking it, but what is this bonus stuff?
In weeks 2 thru 10 of the land rush the 'score' of each guild will not be determined solely by their number of members. If the guild 'won' a settlement location in a prior week then they get a bonus (as explained above) to hold on to that location.
This was mentioned in the original land rush blog posting, but the details were vague until now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've added columns K and L to the Community Spreadsheet for how think that is interpreted for next week. (I could easily be wrong)
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Goblin Squad Member
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but the longer you stay put the better off you are.
Pardon, by 'stay put' do you mean
1) Stay in the running, i.e. maintain a rank of 33rd or higher each week2) keep your numerical rank in the running
3) keep your current map location
Each of these suggests a subtle difference in strategy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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but the longer you stay put the better off you are.Pardon, by 'stay put' do you mean
1) Stay in the running, i.e. maintain a rank of 33rd or higher each week
2) keep your numerical rank in the running
3) keep your current map locationEach of these suggests a subtle difference in strategy.
The bonus only applies to selecting the same hex the following week. If you are in the rush, but change your hex, you get no bonus.
Which I take it means that if a group passes you, (or a higher ranked group wants your spot) and takes your hex, you do not have any bonus to stay in the running in another spot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The bonus only applies to selecting the same hex the following week. If you are in the rush, but change your hex, you get no bonus.
Which I take it means that if a group passes you, (or a higher ranked group wants your spot) and takes your hex, you do not have any bonus to stay in the running in another spot.
That doesn't feel very stabilising.
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Thanks for the math. Is that percentage a bonus to the numbers this week, or do new members get the multiplier?
Does that percentage accumulate, reset, or overlap?
There's lots of room for emergent behavior based on those rules.
Emergent is one of my favorite words.
New members to get the multiplier. Get everyone you can. Get your cat.
Accumulate as a percentage. I.e. if you are in 20th place for a week and stay put, you get a 10% bonus. If you are stay [put next week, you get a 20% bonus. Etc, etc. Which should also answer Nightdrifter's question.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the math. Is that percentage a bonus to the numbers this week, or do new members get the multiplier?
Does that percentage accumulate, reset, or overlap?
There's lots of room for emergent behavior based on those rules.
Emergent is one of my favorite words.
New members to get the multiplier. Get everyone you can. Get your cat.
Accumulate as a percentage. I.e. if you are in 20th place for a week and stay put, you get a 10% bonus. If you are stay [put next week, you get a 20% bonus. Etc, etc. Which should also answer Nightdrifter's question.
Thanks Lee!
New thread: "Concerning Cats in the Land Rush".
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Goblin Squad Member
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That doesn't feel very stabilising.The bonus only applies to selecting the same hex the following week. If you are in the rush, but change your hex, you get no bonus.
Which I take it means that if a group passes you, (or a higher ranked group wants your spot) and takes your hex, you do not have any bonus to stay in the running in another spot.
It gives the lowest groups a bonus of one free "member" on their count. It shouldn't make things too difficult, or there will be no incentive for new teams to try for a spot. the whole point of this is to generate excitement, interest, and new players for the game. Not to make it easy for the early arrivals to sit back and grow complacent.
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Goblin Squad Member
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yeah, so how important is this whole land rush / guild thing?
Im excited for the game, but haven't joined any guilds. I kinda figured I would just do that once the game starts. Am I going to be at a major disadvantage if I don't join one beforehand?
No real disadvantage. Then again, you would have the gratitude of your guild by helping them with a vote.
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Goblin Squad Member
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yeah, so how important is this whole land rush / guild thing?
Im excited for the game, but haven't joined any guilds. I kinda figured I would just do that once the game starts. Am I going to be at a major disadvantage if I don't join one beforehand?
No. Each of the settlements will eventually need far more people to have any chance of surviving. but at the moment, you may be able to trade your vote for a chance to have a slightly better say in how things go for the community of your choice.
And this is purely settlements (where you plan to live) these guilds will cease to exist when the game play starts, unless they also choose to carry on. You aren't committing yourself to anything more than "I'd like to see these guys form a settlement"
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Goblin Squad Member
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yeah, so how important is this whole land rush / guild thing?
Im excited for the game, but haven't joined any guilds. I kinda figured I would just do that once the game starts. Am I going to be at a major disadvantage if I don't join one beforehand?
Well, you have just less than 9 weeks to find somewhere you like.
That said It should not be a major disadvantage to go into EE without a settlement. Places will be looking for people for some time to come I predict.
The advantages should not be undersold either. Getting to know your fellow settlers and neighbors can be advantageous. Leadership positions are open and being created constantly. And, I firmly believe this is the best period to do it as we are not distracted by playing the game ( ;
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really think every group should get stabilization bonuses, including the top 10. It just seems like it'd be kind of silly for people to be able to hold their spot for 9 weeks, then suddenly in the last week of the land rush any group above any other group can just steal the spot, and set off some crazy chain reaction of groups displacing other groups. With no consideration at all that those groups were in their spots for 90% of the land rush.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Thanks for the math. Is that percentage a bonus to the numbers this week, or do new members get the multiplier?
Does that percentage accumulate, reset, or overlap?
There's lots of room for emergent behavior based on those rules.
Emergent is one of my favorite words.
New members to get the multiplier. Get everyone you can. Get your cat.
Accumulate as a percentage. I.e. if you are in 20th place for a week and stay put, you get a 10% bonus. If you are stay [put next week, you get a 20% bonus. Etc, etc. Which should also answer Nightdrifter's question.
I was about to talk about the advantage gained from being small early on, but then I realized that in order to get a meaningful bonus you first need to get the site you want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really think every group should get stabilization bonuses, including the top 10. It just seems like it'd be kind of silly for people to be able to hold their spot for 9 weeks, then suddenly in the last week of the land rush any group above any other group can just steal the spot, and set off some crazy chain reaction of groups displacing other groups. With no consideration at all that those groups were in their spots for 90% of the land rush.
Even teams 11 to 15 aren't really getting a bump from it.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I really think every group should get stabilization bonuses, including the top 10. It just seems like it'd be kind of silly for people to be able to hold their spot for 9 weeks, then suddenly in the last week of the land rush any group above any other group can just steal the spot, and set off some crazy chain reaction of groups displacing other groups. With no consideration at all that those groups were in their spots for 90% of the land rush.
As I understand it, you lose the bonus if you change location. That means that they would need to beat the top guild straight-up, without any of the benefits of entrenchment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or the top 10 can just bounce around the letters and make sure the lower groups have no bonus.
Ayup.
Of course, if they retain their bonus% and you bump them, and there's nowhere else to go, they might end up in your preferred hex with a bonus to stay there. Which might be enough to cause some other groups to merge with them either out of humour, spite, or just liking the hex....
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is not likely to be a crazy cascade of displacement. There will probably be clusters where guilds are close to each other in members, close enough that while a guild above them being displaced might cause one of that cluster to be displaced, they are not likely to have the numbers necessary to displace those directly below them, and may end up skipping down several places before having the numbers necessary to bump someone out of their place.
Skittering is more likely to occur than any actual landslide.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or the top 10 can just bounce around the letters and make sure the lower groups have no bonus.Ayup.
Of course, if they retain their bonus% and you bump them, and there's nowhere else to go, they might end up in your preferred hex with a bonus to stay there. Which might be enough to cause some other groups to merge with them either out of humour, spite, or just liking the hex....
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I dont think they get a bonus once they are displaced. I think it was a bonus only if they stay in the same hex... Maybe I read it wrong.
I agree though, nobody is going to do that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If a guild with a bonus looses its hex, would it retain that bonus for purposes of trying to regain that hex? I think this would be fair to the smaller guilds in contention, making it less likely that larger guilds could intentionally displace them except through camping permanently on the spot they used to hold.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is not likely to be a crazy cascade of displacement. There will probably be clusters where guilds are close to each other in members, close enough that while a guild above them being displaced might cause one of that cluster to be displaced, they are not likely to have the numbers necessary to displace those directly below them, and may end up skipping down several places before having the numbers necessary to bump someone out of their place.
Skittering is more likely to occur than any actual landslide.
Actually, almost anyone above 23rd place has enough to displace almost anyone below them. There are only 5 of the top 25 that can't displace the team immediately below them right now (assuming no change in numbers. If any of those five gets one more member, they can.
Really, by far the greatest effect that the bonus has is to keep the bottom 10-15 safe from the person below them, who now needs 2 new people to move up one.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dont think they get a bonus once they are displaced. I think it was a bonus only if they stay in the same hex... Maybe I read it wrong.
Yes, almost certainly purely theoretical.
They'd lose their bonus on the original spot for moving, but if the only spot left for them was the one left by the larger group, it would be theirs, and as a small guild, they'd get a new bonus in that spot. Then if they suddenly got 20 or 40 people joining, they'd get to apply that bonus to their chance for the following week, possibly retaining the spot when the original group returned. They'd then be too big to get a new bonus, but we don't know if they'd retain that first bump or not. 10 or 15% on 7 people is a whole different animal from 10 or 15% on 50 people.
A slender chance, of course, but the sort of thing that can happen in a flash if people online thinks it's worth a laugh.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If it carries, then I could see a big guild seeding a few to get bottom spot then flooding numbers to secure a top spot + bonus over a top ten already there a few weeks later.
Doesn't work. As soon as they bid for the new (top) spot, the bonus doesn't count for anything. The only way to have a bonus in a top spot is to have it carry over from when you were small if you got there in a fluke.
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Goblin Squad Member
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yeah, so how important is this whole land rush / guild thing?
Im excited for the game, but haven't joined any guilds. I kinda figured I would just do that once the game starts. Am I going to be at a major disadvantage if I don't join one beforehand?
Well, you have just less than 9 weeks to find somewhere you like.
That said It should not be a major disadvantage to go into EE without a settlement. Places will be looking for people for some time to come I predict.
The advantages should not be undersold either. Getting to know your fellow settlers and neighbors can be advantageous. Leadership positions are open and being created constantly. And, I firmly believe this is the best period to do it as we are not distracted by playing the game ( ;
So, what would be a decent guild/settlement for someone with a bit of a more mutable "moral compass"? ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Seventh Veil (website issues this morning, grrr, but intro thread here) is the first True Neutral organisation, open to all moral compasses!
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, what would be a decent guild/settlement for someone with a bit of a more mutable "moral compass"? ;)
What are the mutable elements? Situational ("of I can get away with it.") or specific ("I hate gnomes.", "All clerics should be burned.". …)?
How far from GOOD? How far from LAW? How much variation?(Why not how far from CHAOS, or EVIL? They will probably be more accepting of your differences, but you will have their 'penalties' and not their 'gains'. You can go into the CE settlement and they will accept you, while taking what they can. Ask Andius!)
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, what would be a decent guild/settlement for someone with a bit of a more mutable "moral compass"? ;)
What are the mutable elements? Situational ("of I can get away with it.") or specific ("I hate gnomes.", "All clerics should be burned.". …)?
How far from GOOD? How far from LAW? How much variation?(Why not how far from CHAOS, or EVIL? They will probably be more accepting of your differences, but you will have their 'penalties' and not their 'gains'. You can go into the CE settlement and they will accept you, while taking what they can. Ask Andius!)
Leaning towards evil, but not sure about LE or CE, so maybe NE to balance it out...
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Goblin Squad Member
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According to Caldeathe's Excellent Spreadsheet, there'll be two new folks, Reading Between the Lines and Four Rivers Mercenary Corp, with Green Mountain Militia unable to hold on to Site Q, in addition to Phantasmagoria giving up Site T.
EDIT: It looks as if Golarion Liberators has increased to 8 this morning, but they were only at 7 at midnight, so they'll not have a site if Lee pulled his data on schedule.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Double post, I know, but can someone explain how the %Bonus is calculated? For example, Freevale currently has an effective roster of 17.5 people, which is above Mystical Awakenings 17.3 people.
If Freevale wanted Mystical Awakenings spot, would they get it? Or is it a defensive bonus only?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The bonus is indeed defensive-only. You get it only if you're trying to hold onto what you've already gotten.
Lee's explanation: the first 10 get no bonus, and then after that you get your spot -10 as a percent: #11 = 1%, #12 = 2%, #13 = 3%, etc. Ties get the percentage of the lowest bonus, so if numbers 16, 17, and 18 all have the same votes, each would get 6%.
I expect our first question after posting today will be (if you're reading, Lee) "how does the 'rolling' aspect of the bonus work?" Will we keep track of how much bonus each group has each week (thus adding columns to the spreadsheet), and sum them, or something more formulaic than that?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks to Hammerfall sneaking back up ahead of us this means we will double our bonus from 1% to 2%.
The real question is - will higher ranked settlements that didn't get their first choice and/or dislike their neighbours move.
A top 10 mover will cause more ripples as a rank 15 or 20 settlement and there likely isn't too much of consequence at the bottom.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks to Hammerfall sneaking back up ahead of us this means we will double our bonus from 1% to 2%.
I think you forgot to take out the 3 guilds which are ineligible for the current land rush... you are actually in 9th place (12 - 3 = 9) currently and thus presumably won't get any bonus from this round.