startrek: enterprise


Television

The Exchange

Just looking at enterprise series again. The andorian incident has a Vulcan listening post at the monastary of p'jem. It is listening to the andorians 16ly away so earth 10-11ly away would be in range. It doesnt come up but the vulcans likely listened in on humans, and that puts a spin on first contact. Vulcans were likely there because they detected cochrane's work and the warp flight. They then sent a ship.


That makes sense to me.


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It certainly does put a new spin on the idea. Given that the "Carbon Creek" episode points out that Vulcans had already visited Earth at least once before, the idea they would be keeping an eye on Earth could come from that incident.

And to expound a little more - in hindsight - I don't think Enterprise was as horrible as it was painted out to be. Did it stumble in it's first season? Yes, and badly in many ways. But tell me a newer Star Trek show that didn't - Next Gen and DS9 especially had some real dogs in their first season as well. Watching it now that all the hype and criticism has gone away, I find it to have been more interesting in what it was trying to do - its one of those shows (if the proposed story outlines can be believed) that I really wish had gotten that fifth season.

Apologies for the extra commentary.


I agree.

Grand Lodge

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yellowdingo wrote:
Just looking at enterprise series again. The andorian incident has a Vulcan listening post at the monastary of p'jem. It is listening to the andorians 16ly away so earth 10-11ly away would be in range. It doesnt come up but the vulcans likely listened in on humans, and that puts a spin on first contact. Vulcans were likely there because they detected cochrane's work and the warp flight. They then sent a ship.

Actually the Vulcans had been keeping watch on Earth for decades, but only distant field monitoring. They never would have landed without seeing signs of interstellar capability. (which they mistakenly took Cochrane's ship as being a sign of.) But otherwise, there's no reason to believe that given Cochrane's secretive and paranoid nature, that they were aware of his work before the flight of the Phoenix.

Grand Lodge

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Alex Martin wrote:


And to expound a little more - in hindsight - I don't think Enterprise was as horrible as it was painted out to be.

The problem with Enterprise, was quite frankly... the fans themselves. They wanted the wish fulfillment that TNG, DS9, and Voyager had been giving them for decades. The other problem were the producers themselves. They had gotten themselves so hooked up on foreshadowing the future, that they lost focus on their "present".

Despite that, Enterprise did have some things going for it. After all this time obsessing over Klingons, we actually got the first real looks at Vulcan culture since "Amok Time" and "Yesteryear". and a bit more insight on what it is to be a full blooded Vulcan as opposed to a corner case like Spock.


Enterprise could have been much better... that said after rewatching it recently I realized it was a darn good show. If they had gotten rid of that horrible disaster of a time war and changed the suliban plot line to a romulan plot to turn the various suliban races against the earth in an effort to prevent the rapidly growing popularity of the humans from turning into a full alliance. You would need to remove or alter the spheres and work out something else involving that region of space to make it work better but I think it would have been much better received.


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I think the problems with Enterprise were multiple.

#1 They tried to get away from the family element and focus more on the YA audience as the key audience, with an emphasis on sexuality and mature themes in the commercials. Regardless of what was actually in the show, their statements and advertising (as well as basically blatantly saying it) was to cater more towards the YA audience rather than even appear to be a family oriented show. Ironically DS9 probably had more adult themes in the show itself...but as ST was traditionally seen as somewhat of a family show (at least since TNG years) it still was seen as a family show in a family hour slot.

Killing that was a major blot on them I think.

#2 I think this is the MORE important point. It was boring. I can sit down and watch TNG, TOS, and even Voyager (though Voyager can get pretty challenging to watch at some points) of their first season without saying...I am completely bored with this show. I can't do that with Enterprise. Point blank, it was BORING. That started to change near the end of the first season...and picked up a little in Season 2...but even Season 2 had it's really dull points. I think this is the key which lost viewership. It doesn't matter how good your intentions are...if your show is boring...people simply just won't watch it.

Season 3 got pretty nice...and Season 4 was exceptional, but by the time these seasons rolled out...the damage was already done.

#3 The producers didn't listen. They asked what the fans would want and wanted to watch. They producers wanted a time travel show. The fans didn't (some actually expressed hostility towards the idea). They looked favorably to a show after Voyager's Timeline, they looked favorably to a show prior to TOS, and even favorably towards one that had Kirk's academy years (which also ironically was finally given to them in a different ST universe via the new movies). So after expressing that...what did the producers go with...a show prior to TOS...but hamfisting the exact thing the fans had expressed they didn't want...which was a time travel show or a show dealing with multiple timelines and a timewar. Not really smart to ignore the fans when they state what they want and don't want in answer to your own question.

#4 Trying to do Star Trek without it being Star Trek. That's right, for the first little bit, they just calle dit Enterprise...No Star Trek. It was supposed to be it's own series...and NOT really ST. Way to hose yourselves guys...

#5 Ignoring the trends and ideas of the present. They were still caught up in the 80s while doing a show over a decade and a half later. The 80s were over...deal with it. They were still trying to replicate ST:TNG instead of looking at what was current and what the rest of TV and media was doing.

To tell the truth, even with 3,4, and 5 up there...I think they may have done okay...but the biggest problems were #1 and #2. #1 in that they lost some of the key audiences to begin with (though that also could combine in part with #4 as well in combo with #1), though that wasn't the nail in the coffin. They still had the numbers to stay on TV with.

It was #2 that was really the disaster. Even if you don't care for TNG season 1, you can see how it improved drastically. Enterprise never had that drastic improvement in the first season...and even though the second season was an improvement, it wasn't to the degree that TNG or Voyager were. It really was that the show was kind of a bore that really killed it...

In my opinion.

Addendum: As an aside, in regards to another Sci-Fi series, Stargate Universe also suffered a similar thing. I could watch a dark show like they wanted, with darker aspects...but the whole thing was soooooooo boring for the first half of season one, and then it was still boring...just not as much as the first half. To this day, I cannot watch SG:U without fast forwarding through most of season 1. I think that's a standard on TV though...if you make it so that people are bored with the show...the probably won't watch it...irregardless of whether they want to support the show's theme/idea/plan.

Which is basically to say...it doesn't matter how much someone wants to support your idea/theme/productions, if they find the show boring, eventually they'll stop watching.

The Exchange

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Episode nineteen 'acquisition': we find the origins of Vulcan love slave as a group of ferengi board the enterprise (having incapacitated the crew) in search of 'booty'. During the looting, a ferengi encounters a seductive Vulcan who asks to be rescued from the evil humans who keep her as a love slave. she strokes his unsuspecting lobes to seal the deal.


I blame two things:

One, adding a unnecessary time war plotline, as previously mentioned. I don't think anyone really wanted that.

Second, I think at this point the show really needed a completely new writing and producing team. After 3 series most of which lasted quite a long time, I think most of the creative energy had been spent by enterprise (if not Voyager)


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ST: Enterprise makes a lot more sense once you recognize that the Vulcans are basically one of humanity's worst enemies at the outset; they're simply polite about it. The 'redemption' of Vulcan into a worthy ally is one of the underlying themes.


Interesting. I will have to rewatch it with that in mind.


They should have went with an exploration and meeting of the core Federation races and end with the founding of the Federation.

The Exchange

Vod Canockers wrote:
They should have went with an exploration and meeting of the core Federation races and end with the founding of the Federation.

I thought it should have been the seven years post cocrane's warp flight...as human governments fight with cochrane to secure control of his tech. Starfleet is obviously a U.S. Centric regime. They likely had 'operatives' inside cochrane's group. Politics, spies, betrayal, all sorts of awesome.


One of the big things people WANTED to be covered, but wasn't, was the Federation/Romulan War.

The Exchange

GreyWolfLord wrote:
One of the big things people WANTED to be covered, but wasn't, was the Federation/Romulan War.

That is supposed to be the dominant period storyline...


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Lots of interesting points, and I don't disagree with most of them. Some things to add from my opinion:

-The time war wasn't something I totally hated. From a writing standpoint, I think it gave the writers an excuse to vary from canon minutiae (of which Star Trek is infamous) by hand-waiving it as part of the "time-war."

My real issue with it was that it seemed like an excuse to try and make the viewer "like" Archer way more than was necessary. Every Captain in Star Trek series starts off kind of vague and they develop as the series does. I really didn't like Picard or Sisko when the series started - there are important episodes that help develop the characters. But with Enterprise, the time-war seemed an excuse to elevate Archer as "historically awesome" before we even got the show rolling. I liked Scott Bakula (the actor), but at first I just felt like Archer was just over-played in terms of plots and story.

-I am kind of torn by the Federation/Romulan war idea. On the one hand, the episodes that did involve the Romulans and their chameleon ship were interesting and well-done. To have seen a political plot-line about the War build up would have been interesting. There was supposed to be a sub-plot (in the proposed 5th season) involving T'Pol where we find out her father was actually a Romulan spy, which would have added an interesting twist as well.

That being said, the Federation/Romulan war falls into one of those thing Star Trek things that has so much canon mystique that leaving it vague makes it more interesting. If the series had started doing a whole season about it, it could have been either well-done or gotten heavily panned if it didn't meet fan expectations.

Scarab Sages

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What would have been neat with the Earth/Romulan War would have been to see the start of it at the end of one season, have most of the war fought between seasons and a few shows dedicated to the ending of the war at the beginning of the next season.

Yes, I am correct when I said Earth/Romulan War.


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Charles Scholz wrote:
Yes, I am correct when I said Earth/Romulan War.

Yes- that's right. It's another of those details I would have been curious to see how they handled.

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