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Invisible Flying Wizard: Huh... I don't see anything here.Archer fighter closes his eyes and only suffers a 50% miss chance.Of course he needs to target the right square (and although not in the rules, in my own games he would need to target the right spacial cube in 3dimensional space) in order to get that 50% miss chance.
Aside from the 1.5k diamond, which would have to be purchased in advanceYou bring up needing to have purchased an X value diamond in advance... Is there anything in the rules contradicting the option to consume diamonds equal in value to the spell's requirement?
Once reaching a certain level I've always carried large pouches of 100 gold diamonds for use on the numerous spells that use diamonds as a material component. (They make pretty good bribes too.)
That's why I said just merely close one's eyes because once that's done, you can ignore having to choose the right square and settle for the 50% miss chance.
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The problem is to many people think high level martials are "to anime" when what they really mean is "to celtic mythology".Or too Sumerian Mythology, or too Norse Mythology, or too Judeist Mythology, or too Greek Mythology, or too Hindu Mythology...
My heart kind of sank when someone said piercing DR was too wuxia for them. I thought that was about as basic as you can get. Its one thing to shoot sword beams and teleport around the battlefield or deflect lazers from giant mechs while riding on a high speed flying space car thing, and another to be able to jump really well and smash things or shrug off conditions in a game. At least imo...
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Except you know what the problem with that scenerio is? The wizard HAS methods to prepare. The wizard wouldn't be caught off guard. The wizard has access to divination magic, which allows him to know everything about your barbarian before the fight even begins, teleportation magic to pop up right when he deems it most beneficial for him to, and terrain alterning magic that can change the very landscape to fit his needs best. The barbarian is only catching the wizard by suprise if the plot deems it so...
Gathering information and planning an ambush do not require magic. At least two skills explicitly allow information gathering.
So: my barbarian has been gathering information on your wizard, where he lives, what does his daily routine involve, what are his tactics in a fight, etc.
Mind Blank won't impede mundane intelligence gathering, so don't bother tossing it out there.
Except you know what the problem with that scenerio is? The wizard HAS methods to prepare. The wizard wouldn't be caught off guard. The wizard has access to divination magic, which allows him to know everything about your barbarian before the fight even begins, teleportation magic to pop up right when he deems it most beneficial for him to, and terrain alterning magic that can change the very landscape to fit his needs best. The barbarian is only catching the wizard by suprise if the plot deems it so...Gathering information and planning an ambush does not require magic. At least two skills explicitly allow information gathering.
So: my barbarian has been gathering information on your wizard, where he lives, what does his daily routine involve, what are his tactics in a fight, etc.
Mind Blank won't impede mundane intelligence gathering, so don't bother tossing it out there.
No one mentioned the barbarian finding information about the wizard through mundane means. Someone just said that the wizard has a lot of ways to find out and set it up in his advantage. Wizard also has mundane means... plus mind blank maybe. I don't know why there is a barbarian vs. wizard thing even.
I don't get why your arguing the barbarian has ways to find out and why you have to mention the wizard mind blanking against it. No one was talking about that.
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That's why I said just merely close one's eyes because once that's done, you can ignore having to choose the right square and settle for the 50% miss chance.Invisible Flying Wizard: Huh... I don't see anything here.Archer fighter closes his eyes and only suffers a 50% miss chance.Of course he needs to target the right square (and although not in the rules, in my own games he would need to target the right spacial cube in 3dimensional space) in order to get that 50% miss chance.
Aside from the 1.5k diamond, which would have to be purchased in advanceYou bring up needing to have purchased an X value diamond in advance... Is there anything in the rules contradicting the option to consume diamonds equal in value to the spell's requirement?
Once reaching a certain level I've always carried large pouches of 100 gold diamonds for use on the numerous spells that use diamonds as a material component. (They make pretty good bribes too.)
Do you even pathfinder?
A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack. It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance)You're implying that a character can close his eyes and suddenly charge out into space (3dimensional space even) and have a 50% chance of randomly hitting the right target, when even on flat ground there are 8 different directions and a vast number of permutations in terms of where to stop and which direction to swing.
When I close my eyes you no longer invisible to me. I can gain blindness and only suffer a 50% miss chance. You are considered to have total concealment. I think you are forgetting that Invisibility is an Illusion which relies on sight.
Blinded: The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty
to Armor Class, loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and
takes a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based
skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All
checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading
and Perception checks based on sight) automatically
fail.
All opponents are considered to have total concealment
(50% miss chance) against the blinded character.
Blind creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to
move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check
fall prone. Characters who remain blinded for a long time
grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.
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True, but I am looking at what the BARBARIAN himself can do, by virtue of his class, not his money. Because if go down that path, a rogue with rediculous money could be tier 1...
Any class making clever usage of WBL can be tier 1.
That is the entire point of my position. By the time casters get all those neat spells, other classes have no excuse not to invest in their own magic.
It seems fairly easy to pace an adventure to accommodate teleport or horseback travel, in the situations where they are functionally identical. In the situations where they are not, such as not having a clear destination to teleport to, it seems it would be simpler to obtain horses than to obtain teleport.The time I most see teleport mess with the design is when it directly affects the encounter. Your conjurer/summoner decides to DD most of the party past your battalion of soldiers, right next to the BBEG, then do some serious damage. Extra points if its built on your BBEG not being hit. Having narrative isn't necessarily a bad thing though.
Oh! And one time I had a GM that may not have been a fan of me for my ability to teleport, because we had to have no roll mishaps occur to force me onto the railroad. I think he may have been adjusting the clock on our mission every time I skipped past the walking through the forest for weeks gig too, but that's another story.
A floating clock is just part of the game. Effort matters more. No DM in their right mind would say "oh...no one has teleport? You can't get there today, you all lose, the world dies." So why would they say "Oh, you have teleport? Campaign over, you win."
I guess I've never had an issue with teleport or DD ruining an encounter though. There's been some good use of it in my games, but it generally involves moving a fighter into full attack position, or getting the entire party into the crimelord's mansion for some murderizing. But then, I expect to both challenge and provide 'time to shine' for every player, regardless of their abilities. Sometimes that means your teleportation is the only thing that saves the day. Sometimes that means the bad guy doesn't care about the long term health hazards of lead paint, and you can't port in.
With how I run my campaigns, if the PCs needed Teleport and didn't have it, while it would not be "game over" it would definitely have "consequences". "Oh... you wanted to hike to the Ziggurat of Ancient Gods, rather than Teleport? (Not inside of course, Unhallow is a thing) Well Ok." (Adds more Cultists and Pseudonatural creatures). Simply put at high levels, the PCs should be expected to have these kinds of resources. And when the villains are sitting on 9th level spells, the PCs better damn well hope they have way to cope, because I'm not rewriting the final BBEG.
Like I explain to my players, the kinds of punches I throw as a DM varies by level.
Level 1-3: I'm hitting with Sock'em Boppers wrapped in pillows. Why? Because the game is most "swingy" at this level where an errant critical means dead PC.
Level 4-7: Just Sock'em Boppers now.
Level 8-13: Boxing Gloves. The punches should be much more painful now, even if a PC dies at this point they should be able to recover.
Level 14-19: Regular punches. Poor planning or resource management can lead quickly a TPK knockout punch at this stage.
Level 20: "Now this *is* a knife." BBEG. Players are expected to handle something truly challenging where TPK is not only a possibility but a likely one.
So ya... not having teleport when I'm throwing regular punches, could very well lead to a TPK.
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The problem is you have to swing into the right square. Otherwise you're just randomly choosing a square to swing into. That's a 1/8 chance IF you know the enemy is within 5 feet of you.
Nope.
If you are flying and invisible all I have to do is pull out my bow and suffer a 50% miss chance. I don't have to target a square when I am blind.
All I have to do in melee is make sure you are with in range, the player, can see if that's possible and move his mini up to your character and just suffer that 50% miss chance.
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I don't get why your arguing the barbarian has ways to find out and why you have to mention the wizard mind blanking against it. No one was talking about that.
You want to use the wizards divination magic to justify an ambush. Divination magic is nice, but not the only solution. Mundane skills can provide similar functionality, with the absolute defense mechanisms that can be used to ward against magical information gathering.
If you can plan an ambush and use it to justify catching a martial character unprepared, the martial character can do the same. Divination is faster, mundane skills are much more difficult to defend against.
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The problem is you have to swing into the right square. Otherwise you're just randomly choosing a square to swing into. That's a 1/8 chance IF you know the enemy is within 5 feet of you.Nope.
If you are flying and invisible all I have to do is pull out my bow and suffer a 50% miss chance. I don't have to target a square when I am blind.
All I have to do in melee is make sure you are with in range, the player, can see if that's possible and move his mini up to your character and just suffer that 50% miss chance.
Depending on feat selection, you can drop it down to a 20% miss chance with a reroll. You can also negate the penalties vs incoming ranged attacks.
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The problem is you have to swing into the right square. Otherwise you're just randomly choosing a square to swing into. That's a 1/8 chance IF you know the enemy is within 5 feet of you.
EDIT:
Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight, he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can't attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).
A quick perception check can tell me which square you occupy. Since I will be relying on my perception to cover sound then it's no problem. You don't get the benefit from Invisibility since I have my eyes closed so it's a simply my Perception vs your Stealth. You still occupy a square even if you are flying.
If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
How? After casting they will obviously use their move action to well, MOVE. You can ready an action but that's a big waste since they'll know.
Wait wait let me guess.
They also cast all their spells using Silent Spell.
Well if the Paragon Surge fits... You'll note that not needed though as detailed above. Though it is possible.
If I get a spell off (or two with quicken) you have already lost.If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
This is also extremely true.
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This is also extremely true.If I get a spell off (or two with quicken) you have already lost.If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
It also make the assumption you have initiative and that your spells are actually going to resolve the encounter. Neither is certain.
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If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
No, you don't. You can make some guesses about where you think I am if you hear me casting, or you can try and guess the origin of the spell, but those guesses are easily thrown off by a 5 foot step, and it's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check.
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No, you don't. You can make some guesses about where you think I am if you hear me casting, or you can try and guess the origin of the spell, but those guesses are easily thrown off by a 5 foot step, and it's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check.If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
Your spells are not invisible. I don't have to guess their point of origin.
I ready an action to disrupt your spell and let fly when you start casting.
I don't get why your arguing the barbarian has ways to find out and why you have to mention the wizard mind blanking against it. No one was talking about that.You want to use the wizards divination magic to justify an ambush. Divination magic is nice, but not the only solution. Mundane skills can provide similar functionality, with the absolute defense mechanisms that can be used to ward against magical information gathering.
If you can plan an ambush and use it to justify catching a martial character unprepared, the martial character can do the same. Divination is faster, mundane skills are much more difficult to defend against.
Not at all...
Do you know what "gathering Information" means for mundane purposes? It is you going around, asking questions, and snooping around. That is actually pretty easy to defend against. Additionally, remember, most wizards are well nown for being recluses and high level wizards are VERY well known for having towers that require magic to enter in the first place (like that wizard, Eziah, who has his tower ON THE FREAKING SUN). The barbarian isn't catching the wizard by suprise by any means short of the plot saying he is.
The problem is you have to swing into the right square. Otherwise you're just randomly choosing a square to swing into. That's a 1/8 chance IF you know the enemy is within 5 feet of you.Nope.
If you are flying and invisible all I have to do is pull out my bow and suffer a 50% miss chance. I don't have to target a square when I am blind.
All I have to do in melee is make sure you are with in range, the player, can see if that's possible and move his mini up to your character and just suffer that 50% miss chance.
......
You may have been fortunate enough to find a GM that lets you do this. From my reading of the rules and game play, this doesn't work. You don't get to hit if you are not even pointed in the right direction.
With how I run my campaigns, if the PCs needed Teleport and didn't have it, while it would not be "game...
Requiring something as specific as 'teleport' opposed to 'the ability to move vast distances quickly' is poor design.
As far as kiddie gloves go, I like to make the point early in the campaign, level 1-2 or so, that I will kill their character, for no better reason than the dice going that way, or them biting off more than they could chew.
But campaigns overall? Designed around the actual players you have. I don't require teleport specifically any more than I require a longsword. You might need to travel far and fast, and you might need to hit something, but I'll let the players figure out how they're going to do it.
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A floating clock is just part of the game. Effort matters more. No DM in their right mind would say "oh...no one has teleport? You can't get there today, you all lose, the world dies."
I kind of do. In my game, characters with a 20-ft. speed actually get places in only 2/3 the time as people with a 30-ft. speed, which means they might miss some stuff. A timer means no 15-minute workdays sometimes (which you "casters aren't OP" people are always harping on about), and it also means that abilities like "swift tracker" actually have some purpose for existing other than pure flavor text.
Of course, in my game, there are houserules so that, if there's no wizard handy, the rogue or fighter can still influence results far away on a reasonably fast time scale. As a class feature, the fighter can get a super-fast hippogriff (or whatever) bonded mount that improves as he levels, for example. He might have military outposts on other continents. The rogue reaches the point where he has "friends of friends" all over the world he can call on for favors at a moment's notice.
With how I run my campaigns, if the PCs needed Teleport and didn't have it, while it would not be "game...Requiring something as specific as 'teleport' opposed to 'the ability to move vast distances quickly' is poor design.
As far as kiddie gloves go, I like to make the point early in the campaign, level 1-2 or so, that I will kill their character, for no better reason than the dice going that way, or them biting off more than they could chew.
But campaigns overall? Designed around the actual players you have. I don't require teleport specifically any more than I require a longsword. You might need to travel far and fast, and you might need to hit something, but I'll let the players figure out how they're going to do it.
Sure it can be something other Teleport that can cover those kind of distances, provided of course it can do it similarly quickly. If there is such a thing, that would be acceptable, the point being at high levels you can be required to get places far away quickly and you better have the means to do it. And make no mistake levels 1-2 I will absolutely kill PCs, but I ensure that the encounters at those levels have as low likelihood of PC death as the CR will allow, which being levels 1-2 is still a pretty high chance. My campaigns final bosses and overarching plot is determined before characters are rolled. If teleport is required to deal with Mathias, the Shepard of Sanctioned Supremacy, then teleport the campaign shall require.
Pretty much this. Ruby from RWBY is not a high level martial. She's like level 10-12, tops. And there is absolutely no way to come...
I am currently playing in PF a sorc, diplomancer bard, and.a spell-less pally. In 3.5 I have a ranger. My sorc is a utility caster, battlefield control, with a couple choice blasting spells.
So, you say you play Martials in 3.5, what sort?
In your PF games, where you play spellcasters I assume? How many of those hyper optimized one trick pony spellcasters you show the build of do you play?
In the games you DM, how many Martials are played? How about those hyper optimized one trick pony spellcasters?
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Then I haven't cast and you don't know which square you are attacking.It also make the assumption you have initiative and that your spells are actually going to resolve the encounter. Neither is certain.This is also extremely true.If I get a spell off (or two with quicken) you have already lost.If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
Refer to the post immediately above yours.
Martials in 3.5? Lets see:
Alex Stratos - Rogue 5/Combat Trapsmith 3 (This is the character that I had to reroll to a Druid.)
Sarion Eschel - Crusader 10/Warblade 5 (Taking advantage of the "other classes are 1/2 Initiator level", so the class levels are alternated. Thicket of Blades using, ally boosting, never dying, party face).
Noraus Darkdelve - Scout 3/Rogue 16/Shadowdancer 1 (King of Stealth, tons of Sneak Attack and Skirmish dice thanks to Swift Ambusher, was able to trigger Skirmish and full attack with a barrage of arrows. Face/Knowledges/Spot and Listen along with stealth made him a scary skill master.
If we add "Gishes", then I had several 16+ BAB / 9th level spell builds, including a Chrono Legionnaire Psion/Anarchic Initiate/Slayer and a Ruby Knight Vindicator Cleric/Church Inquisitor/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator/Contemplative/Divine Oracle (So glad I have the sheet handy XD). I'm also rolling my Duskblades, Psychic Warriors and Factotums under this heading.
In my PF games, the closest thing to Martial that I have played thus far is my Vivisectionist Beastmorph Alchemist Isaiah, who is the leader of the group despite very Chaotic Neutral. (Which means loves to screw with people in this case.)
Casters in PF mostly. Conjurer Wizard, Lunar Oracle, and a Gravewalker Witch. Currently looking to play a Sadist Lifeleech Soulthief Vitalist as soon as one of the other GMs runs a campaign (presently I'm about to start an E6 Pathfinder, so this may be a bit.)
You wish it were that simple.If I get a spell off (or two with quicken) you have already lost.If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
I can probably do it in a single Swift Action to be perfectly honest.
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I can probably do it in a single Swift Action to be perfectly honest.You wish it were that simple.If I get a spell off (or two with quicken) you have already lost.If your casting, I know which square to attack into.
You have to choose one square to try. You don't get hocus pocus random 50/50 odds.
Only if you disallow saving throws, hit points and common sense.