This is my effort to fill in some of the blanks of Golarion's timeline. Everything here is a combination of conjecture, connecting the dots, and wild speculation. There may be some spoilers. There will definitely be huge holes, including but not limited to the origin, role, and history of gods, dragons, and giants. Feel free to expand on these or other topics, or do a better job than I did of the material I decided to cover.
Creation:
A primeval Golarion takes shape. Mortal life will not emerge for hundreds of thousands of years.
The aboleth empire rules the seas, comprised primarily of standard aboleths overseen by the “noble caste” of veiled masters. The veiled masters, in turn, obey the whims of even more exotic and powerful aboleth species, the mightiest of which could rival the gods themselves.
A handful of Great Old Ones, free from the constraints that will one day limit many of them, arrive on Golarion. Some spawn the neothelid race to act on their behalf. Other entities from the Dark Tapestry also make contact with the budding planet. These include mi-go and elder things.
The elohim arrive on Golarion, driven by their racial quest to create life and sculpt worlds. They establish a city that will one day be known as the Nameless Spires. They go on to carve out enormous, nation-sized caverns—the Vaults of Orv—deep underground, utilizing their mythic magic to stabilize these miles-deep structures. The elohim are assisted by enslaved pechs and created species such as the rock-eating delvers. The Vaults, now safe from seismic activity, are transformed into massive laboratories for the Vault Builders' varied experiments.
The aboleths, Great Old Ones, Dark Tapestry-dwellers, and elohim invariably come into conflict.
Ancient Past:
War intensifies between the various species. The aboleths and elohim manage to bind a few Great Old Ones, and in time the rest of these god-things depart for other worlds.
Elder things develop shoggoth slaves. The shoggoths eventually rebel against their creators, forcing the elder things to scatter to Golarion’s most isolated regions and enter hibernation, or flee the planet altogether. Some shoggoths are captured by the elohim, who mine the protoplasmic monsters for raw genetic material. They create a vast array of life in the process.
The Orvian Vault of Ilvarandin becomes a hotbed of activity. The elohim fill it with dozens of different species including troglodytes, serpentfolk, humans, and elves. Some of these mortals were created from shoggoth potential, while others had evolved through more natural means and were transplanted to their new subterranean home. The elves were later additions, having been abducted from Golarion’s sister planet of Castrovel.
Age of Serpents:
The elohim depart Golarion, though a few remain behind in their base beneath a crater in Ilvarandin known as Builders’ Mark.
The neothelids largely relocate underground. They settle in the Orvian vault of Denebrum.
Humans, elves, serpentfolk, and other mortal species spread rapidly on the surface. The elves largely sequester themselves to forested regions, while humans—still primitive at this point—exist as hunter-gatherers. The serpentfolk take a more expansionist approach. Far more evolved then humans, serpentfolk establish the first mortal civilization, both upon Golarion’s surface and in the depths of Sekamina.
With the mighty elohim and Great Old Ones no longer a concern, the aboleths are given unprecedented control over Golarion’s future. Like the neothelids, the aboleths also invade the Vaults of their erstwhile enemies. They establish a strong presence in the largest of the Vaults, the Sightless Sea, and in so doing gain access to the coast of Ilvarandin. Witnessing the elohim’s experiments into mortal life, the aboleths decide that they can do a better job, and so by utilizing the template of civilization forged in Ilvarandin’s depths, begin to lay the foundation for what will one day become Azlant.
Age of Legend:
The aboleths’ magic, technology, and breeding programs give rise to modern humans. At their masters’ behest, the humans develop the nascent empire of Azlant.
Serpentfolk have conquered vast swathes of territory. Their empire is frequently at war with the Azlanti.
“Wild” humans—that is, those not hand-bred and controlled by aboleths—develop civilizations of their own. These will one day develop into the nations of Ninshabur and Ancient Osirion, among others. For now, though, they remain isolated and comparatively underdeveloped affairs.
Age of Darkness:
In –5293, the aboleths call down a cataclysm from the sky. Earthfall brings an end to Azlant while also breaking the aboleth empire’s back. The former are wiped from history, while the latter will struggle for millennia to regain their former dominance.
Age of Destiny:
The aboleths continue manipulating mortal races, but are far more subtle than they once were. Their machinations are far-reaching, requiring decades, centuries, or even longer to reach fruition.
The Dominion the Black takes an interest in Golarion. This intergalactic empire is made up mostly of neh-thalggu, with a minority of vespergaunts, mi-go, and similarly alien species. As with the aboleths and elohim before them, the Dominion are masters of genetic manipulation and biomancy.
In –1498 AR, the Dominion brokers a deal with the Four Pharaohs of Ascension, ushering in Osirion’s Second Age. In exchange for 11 potent gifts, the Pharaohs put into motion events that will—knowingly or not—one day allow the Dominion to return to Golarion.
Thanks, I've been kicking around the idea for awhile. I should have probably included notations where I got the bits and pieces of info, or if I just made something up entirely. Maybe I'll revise it later with some additions.
Thanks, I've been kicking around the idea for awhile. I should have probably included notations where I got the bits and pieces of info, or if I just made something up entirely. Maybe I'll revise it later with some additions.
That would be useful for people comparing extrapolations to canon.
I think there's a real need for a good overview like this. Great read, but yes - notations or extrapolations in brackets would be ideal. But I'll be copying this for my players, no question. Well done!
Alrighty, v2: this time with notations in italics. No new information - that will take more time.
Creation:
A primeval Golarion takes shape. Mortal life will not emerge for hundreds of thousands of years.
Extrapolated from Inner Sea Timeline in 'The Inner Sea World Guide,' (pg. 33). The "hundreds of thousands of years" is speculation.
The aboleth empire rules the seas, comprised primarily of standard aboleths overseen by the “noble caste” of veiled masters. The veiled masters, in turn, obey the whims of even more exotic and powerful aboleth species, the mightiest of which could rival the gods themselves.
Several sources, namely the Veiled Masters section in 'Occult Mysteries' (pg. 12-13). The part about aboleths of god-like power comes from here.
A handful of Great Old Ones, free from the constraints that will one day limit many of them, arrive on Golarion. Some spawn the neothelid race to act on their behalf. Other entities from the Dark Tapestry also make contact with the budding planet. These include mi-go and elder things.
According to the in-game book Azlanti Neris, as noted in 'Occult Mysteries,' three pre-Azlanti cities contain bound Great Old Ones. From 'Into the Darklands' (pg. 48), neothelids are noted as spawn of ancient gods who themselves worship Outer Gods like Yog-Sothoth. The elder things and mi-go are speculation, though it is known that both races have had contact with Golarion. The extent and time frame are, however, unknown.
The elohim arrive on Golarion, driven by their racial quest to create life and sculpt worlds. They establish a city that will one day be known as the Nameless Spires. They go on to carve out enormous, nation-sized caverns—the Vaults of Orv—deep underground, utilizing their mythic magic to stabilize these miles-deep structures. The elohim are assisted by enslaved pechs and created species such as the rock-eating delvers. The Vaults, now safe from seismic activity, are transformed into massive laboratories for the Vault Builders' varied experiments.
Elohim are a natural fit for the Vault-Builders of Orv, as per their description in 'Bestiary IV' (pg. 86). There's no proof beyond that, however. In 'The Hungry Storm' (pg. 75), it is suggested that the Nameless Spires may have been built by the Vault Builders of Orv or visitors from another world. Part of me thinks it was an elder thing city, though every time it has been mentioned in the past, the Vault Builders are referenced. Pechs were noted as being enslaved by the Vault Builders in 'Into the Darklands' (pg. 19). The delver info is from the delver chapter in 'Misfit Monsters Redeemed' (pg. 10-15).
The aboleths, Great Old Ones, Dark Tapestry-dwellers, and elohim invariably come into conflict.
From 'Into the Darklands' (pg. 48), neothelids are called enemies of both aboleths and the Vault Builders. From that, I assumed that the there was a three-way war between the races.
Ancient Past:
War intensifies between the various species. The aboleths and elohim manage to bind a few Great Old Ones, and in time the rest of these god-things depart for other worlds.
This is entirely speculation. There is no evidence how the Great Old Ones came to be bound in Pre-Azlanti cities. Likewise, it is not known how many Great Old Ones fled Golarion.
Elder things develop shoggoth slaves. The shoggoths eventually rebel against their creators, forcing the elder things to scatter to Golarion’s most isolated regions and enter hibernation, or flee the planet altogether. Some shoggoths are captured by the elohim, who mine the protoplasmic monsters for raw genetic material. They create a vast array of life in the process.
The part about elder things developing shoggoth slaves, and those slaves then rebelling, comes from the HP Lovecraft short story 'At the Mountains of Madness' (among others). Elohim mining shoggoths for genes is pure speculation. In the story 'At the Mountains of Madness,' however, it is revealed that humanity was the result of genetic experiments conducted by elder things.
The Orvian Vault of Ilvarandin becomes a hotbed of activity. The elohim fill it with dozens of different species including troglodytes, serpentfolk, humans, and elves. Some of these mortals were created from shoggoth potential, while others had evolved through more natural means and were transplanted to their new subterranean home. The elves were later additions, having been abducted from Golarion’s sister planet of Castrovel.
Ilvarandin serving as a template for mortal civilizations is pure speculation. In 'Lost Cities of Golarion' (pg. 14-13), Ilvarandin is noted as hosting structures built in the style of various species, including elves, Azlanti, troglodytes, and serpentfolk. When, how, and even if elves actually lived there are unknown. Elves being abducted from Castrovel is speculation. Elves are heavily implied to have originated on Castrovel in 'Distant Worlds' (pg. 10-13).
Age of Serpents:
The elohim depart Golarion, though a few remain behind in their base beneath a crater in Ilvarandin known as Builders’ Mark.
It is unknown when or even if the Vault Builders left Golarion. Them maintaining a base in Ilvarandin is hinted at in 'Lost Cities of Golarion' (pg. 8).
The neothelids largely relocate underground. They settle in the Orvian vault of Denebrum.
It is unknown when this migration occurs. In fact, based on the description of Denebrum in [i]Into the Darklands (pg. 48), it could be interpreted that neothelids always inhabited Denebrum.[/i]
Humans, elves, serpentfolk, and other mortal species spread rapidly on the surface. The elves largely sequester themselves to forested regions, while humans—still primitive at this point—exist as hunter-gatherers. The serpentfolk take a more expansionist approach. Far more evolved then humans, serpentfolk establish the first mortal civilization, both upon Golarion’s surface and in the depths of Sekamina.
This is largely connecting the dots. There's no indication on when humans and elves started developing modern civilizations, or how developed humans were at any given point. Serpentfolk are noted as founding "among the first of Golarion's empires" in the Inner Sea Timeline in 'The Inner Sea World Guide' (pg. 33).
With the mighty elohim and Great Old Ones no longer a concern, the aboleths are given unprecedented control over Golarion’s future. Like the neothelids, the aboleths also invade the Vaults of their erstwhile enemies. They establish a strong presence in the largest of the Vaults, the Sightless Sea, and in so doing gain access to the coast of Ilvarandin. Witnessing the elohim’s experiments into mortal life, the aboleths decide that they can do a better job, and so by utilizing the template of civilization forged in Ilvarandin’s depths, begin to lay the foundation for what will one day become Azlant.
Speculation as to when, why, and how aboleths came to control territory in the ocean, and how thorough that control was. Aboleths do eventually colonize the Sightless Sea of Orv, as noted in 'Into the Darklands' (pg. 53), among various other sources. It is unknown what spurred the aboleths to develop the human civilization of Azlant, if the elohim/Vault Builders were at all involved, and if the Ovrian Vault of Ilvarandin played a role. The Sightless Sea is connected to Ilvarandin via its western coast.
Age of Legend:
The aboleths’ magic, technology, and breeding programs give rise to modern humans. At their masters’ behest, the humans develop the nascent empire of Azlant.
This is fairly well-established cannon.
Serpentfolk have conquered vast swathes of territory. Their empire is frequently at war with the Azlanti.
As noted throughout the Serpent's Skull Adventure Path, as well as the Inner Sea Timeline in 'The Inner Sea World Guide,' (pg. 33)
“Wild” humans—that is, those not hand-bred and controlled by aboleths—develop civilizations of their own. These will one day develop into the nations of Ninshabur and Ancient Osirion, among others. For now, though, they remain isolated and comparatively underdeveloped affairs.
Although humanity's first great empire is known to be Azlant, other human ethnicities also existed. Very little is known about Ninshabur. Osirion was formally founded in -3470 AR. Prior to its founding by Azghaad, Osirion was host to warring tribes (Lost Kingdoms of Golarion' (pg. 15).
Age of Darkness:
In –5293, the aboleths call down a cataclysm from the sky. Earthfall brings an end to Azlant while also breaking the aboleth empire’s back. The former are wiped from history, while the latter will struggle for millennia to regain their former dominance.
More fairly-well established canon. However, I speculated about the aboleths continuing to reestablish their previous level of power. That may be noted as canon somewhere, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. Maybe the aboleths are content to exist behind the scenes now, and have no intention of actively and brazenly dominating the world.
Age of Destiny:
The aboleths continue manipulating mortal races, but are far more subtle than they once were. Their machinations are far-reaching, requiring decades, centuries, or even longer to reach fruition.
According to the Veiled Masters section of 'Occult Mysteries' (pg. 12-13), the aboleths are still most certainly pulling humanity's strings. The extent of their manipulations are unknown.
The Dominion the Black takes an interest in Golarion. This intergalactic empire is made up mostly of neh-thalggu, with a minority of vespergaunts, mi-go, and similarly alien species. As with the aboleths and elohim before them, the Dominion are masters of genetic manipulation and biomancy.
The true nature of the Dominion is currently unknown, though they are identified as being primarily neh-thalggu in 'Occult Mysteries' (pg. 30). Veserpgaunts are known to be represented among the Dominion (Doom Comes to Dustpawn, pg. 12). I'm speculating about mi-go. In 'The Dragon's Demand,' the Dominion is noted as having bred the monstrous yangethe (pg. 63). It is unknown how capable they are of genetic manipulation and biomancy, though in their entry in 'Bestiary III' (pg. 197), neh-thalggu are said to travel outer space in "immense living ships."
In –1498 AR, the Dominion brokers a deal with the Four Pharaohs of Ascension, ushering in Osirion’s Second Age. In exchange for 11 potent gifts, the Pharaohs put into motion events that will—knowingly or not—one day allow the Dominion to return to Golarion.
'Entombed With the Pharaohs' (pg. 14) is one of many sources confirming that the Four Pharaohs of Ascension were given 11 gifts by the Dominion of the Black, and that this was the catalyst for Osirion's Second Age. It is unknown what the Pharaohs promised in return, or what plans the Dominion has for Golarion's future.
Apostae and Aucturn arrive from the depths of space, becoming the tenth and eleventh planets in Golarion's solar system, respectively. Apostae is an artificial construct, a massive world-ship from parts unknown.
In 'The Asylum Stone' (pg. 48), there exists a magical window designed by the Runelord Karzoug that allowed him to view all the planets in Golarion's solar system - except for Apostae and Aucturn. Therefore I'm speculating that both planets are relatively new additions, and must have appeared after Thassilon's fall. Apostae is identified as an immense starship in 'Distant Worlds' (pg. 44-47).
Aucturn is a planet-sized life form from the depths of the Dark Tapestry, home to a vast array of alien horrors. The Dominion of the Black has a city there called the Citadel of the Black. The Dominion will, in time, establish contact with cultists throughout Golarion's solar system. Occasionally they will transport these cultists to their Citadel to serve them, both as actual servants and experimental stock.
This all comes from 'Distant Worlds' (pg. 48-49). It is strongly implied that Aucturn is alive. Aucturn has been linked to both the Dark Tapestry and the Dominion of the Black by scholars. The Citadel of the Black is populated by Old Cultists that were offered refuge there by the city's mysterious master, Carsai the King. It is hinted that Carsai may not worship the Great Old Ones/Outer Gods himself, and may in fact be a puppet of the Dominion. Why the Dominion would populate a city with Old Cultists is speculation.
For this one, I'm not going to speculate at all. These is just some interesting details.
Age of Enthronement:
1606 AR: The Eyes of the Ancients form on the gas giant planet Bretheda. These three cyclones are tens of thousands of miles wide, form a perfect equilateral triangle, and have raged continually since their birth. Exactly 3,000 years later, the god Aroden perishes.
'Distant Worlds,' page 42.
Years Leading up to 4606 AR: The mysterious mothmen, harbingers of fate and ill omen, become increasingly active. Mothmen sightings and incidents occur with great frequency in Taldor, Andoran, and Ustalav.
'Mystery Monsters Revisited,' page 32.
Age of Lost Omens:
4606 AR:Aroden, the Last Azlanti, perishes. Prophecy fails, though not just on Golarion - prophets throughout the solar system are driven mad, even on planets where Aroden was unknown. The failure of prophecy coincides with Aroden's death, though whether one caused the other is unknown.
The date of Aroden's death is established cannon. From 'Frozen Stars,' page 73, it is noted that the planet Triaxus also had to contend with the failure of prophecy. From this I assume that prohpecy has failed throughout the solar system, and perhaps even beyond.
Mothmen sightings drop off dramatically after Aroden's death.
Savage Kellid tribes begin worshiping Great Old Ones and Outer Gods in the region that will one day become Ustalav. These unholy beliefs found purchase among the Kellids for two reasons. First, Ustalav - and particularly Versex County - has always been susceptible to strange, alien powers. Second, the Kellid people's religion was already a complex and baffling form of polytheism, wherein all manner of god, angel, demon, and even imaginary being found worship.
It is unknown when the Kellids of Ustalav turned towards the Old Cults; it may have been in the Age of Enthronement or even earlier in the Age of Destiny. The reasons for engaging in such blasphemous practices are also unknown. The worship did indeed take place, however, as indicated by the many Kellid Old Cult shrines and ruins throughout Versex and Vieland Counties ('Rule of Fear,' pg. 28, 32). This is further confirmed in 'Carrion Hill' (pg. 3, 31). I am assuming that, prior to adopting Old Cult practices, the Kellids followed a religion similar to that of Sarkoris as described in 'Lost Kingdoms' (pg. 46-48).
Shub-Niggurath and Yog-Sothoth are particularly popular deities among the Kellids. The capital of this nation of madness was the city that will eventually become Carrion Hill. Here, the tribal leaders interbred with their alien gods, resulting in the birth of monsters known as Spawn of Yog-Sothoth.
Shub-Niggurath is listed as being popular in the region around Lake Encarthan ('Wake of the Watcher,' pg. 66). Whether or not she was also favored by the ancient Kellids is unknown. That Carrion Hill was the Kellid Old Cultists' capital is noted in 'Carrion Hill' (pg. 3), along with information concerning the Spawn of Yog-Sothoth.
As the madness, decadence, and evil of the Old Cults spread, some Kellids turned on their wicked brethren, attempting to save themselves and their kin. Alas, their efforts would be too little and too late.
I found hints of this mini-rebellion in 'Rule of Fear.' It is said that Kellid outcasts were drawn to Versex County where they performed rites that other Kellids considered taboo (pg. 28). This suggests to me that even the laissez-faire attitude of the Sarkorian religion found the Old Cults repugnant. Further, some scholars describe the "rise, worship, and fearful abandonment of a whole pantheon of strange gods" (pg. 32), suggesting that perhaps the Kellid people did not initially realize the danger of their new beliefs, and may have tried disavowing themselves of the Old Gods at some point. I say that this rebellion failed, because the Old Cults are still going strong when...
2397 AR: Varisians push east into Ustalav, led by priests and champions of Desna. The goddess has sent visions to these people, urging them to slay the Kellid Old Cultists and tear down their monuments. The Varisians are ultimately victorious. The surviving Kellids are driven north, back into Sarkoris, and the Varisians found the city of Carrion Hill on the site of their foe's former capital to guard against future Old Cult activity.
This all comes from 'Carrion Hill' (pg. 3, 31).
Age of Lost Omens:
That is not dead which can eternal lie. Although the Kellids of old were defeated, their descendents still occupy parts of Ustalav, and knowingly or not, carry the taint of the Old Cults in their veins.
'Rule of Fear' (pg. 55) identifies the Ghalmont bloodline, a family descended from the Twisted Tongue Kellid tribe. The Ghalmonts are haunted by ancestral nightmares.
Ancient menhirs and bloodstained alters still stand, awaiting the day when they are empowered once more to channel the power of the Old Gods.
The Kellid ruins are found with greatest regularity in Vieland and Versex Counties ('Rule of Fear,' pg. 30, 32). In one possible scenario noted in 'Shadows of Gallowspire' (pg. 61), Kellid monoliths in the city of Thrushmoor hum to life. Their piping music drives listeners to madness and monstrous transformation as the very fabric of reality seems to unravel.
Hidden away in dark corners, bound yet eternally patient, the alien horrors of the past await the day of their freedom.
The adventure 'Carrion Hill' focuses on the release of a Spawn of Yog-Sothoth in the titular city.
No mention of the Cyclops empire and ancient Vudra?
Probably not from me. Giants/cyclopes, dragons, gods, Vudra, Tian Xia - these are all great topics with their own mysterious timelines worthy of exploration. For me though, my passion lies with Lovecraftian weirdness. If someone else has ideas/conspiracy theories/wild conjecture, please by all means chime in.
Cannot remember details, but there was an Old One dragged on Golarion surface, in his comet, by aboleth's meteor.
And speaking about ideas/conspiracies:
The whole aboleth plan, to punish Azlant with a meteor bugs me - it is sad, that it ultimately backfired on them, causing a good piece of collateral damage, that affected their Second Empire. But this damage was caused by greatly weakened meteor (two Azlant gods gave their lives - one to put a moon on meteor's way, second to take away radiation and other nasty stuff from shards, after meteor went through). Imagine what it could have done, if not the sacrifice of Azlant Gods. And I have a feeling, this variant certainly does not include "no damage" option for aboleths. Considering the fact, that even a weakened meteor caused it. So, did they just miscalculate the outcome? Or were they so proud of themselves, that they didn't even thought about such "accidental suicide" variant? Or maybe there was somebody else, who tried to orchestrate the ultimate downfall of aboleths?
Cannot remember details, but there was an Old One dragged on Golarion surface, in his comet, by aboleth's meteor.
That'd by Xhamen-Dor, Great Old One of infestations and fungus. I've been trying to figure out where that meteor landed, but after asking on the Ask James Jacobs thread, all I learned was that it was not in Tian Xia. I figured Xhamen-Dor might've been the source of the mind-controlling mythic fungus on the island of Goroyasa (off the coast of the Valashmai Jungle), but nope. I guess the meteor could have landed in the Inner Sea region, but I think we would have heard something about it by now. Thus I'm guessing Xhamen-Dor landed somewhere in southern Garund, Casmaron, Arcadia, or even Sarusan.
Ashkar wrote:
And speaking about ideas/conspiracies:
The whole aboleth plan, to punish Azlant with a meteor bugs me - it is sad, that it ultimately backfired on them, causing a good piece of collateral damage, that affected their Second Empire. But this damage was caused by greatly weakened meteor (two Azlant gods gave their lives - one to put a moon on meteor's way, second to take away radiation and other nasty stuff from shards, after meteor went through). Imagine what it could have done, if not the sacrifice of Azlant Gods. And I have a feeling, this variant certainly does not include "no damage" option for aboleths. Considering the fact, that even a weakened meteor caused it. So, did they just miscalculate the outcome? Or were they so proud of themselves, that they didn't even thought about such "accidental suicide" variant? Or maybe there was somebody else, who tried to orchestrate the ultimate downfall of aboleths?
I don't think this is addressed anywhere officially, but I do remember reading on the messageboards somewhere that the aboleths really seriously underestimated the payload they called down during Earthfall. Still, even if that's the case, it seems pretty weird that they miscalculated as much as they did. Like you said, if it wasn't for the sacrifice of Acavna (the Azlanti moon goddess), Earthfall would have been even worse. It could well have wiped out the aboleths entirely. For a race of immortal geniuses, you'd think they wouldn't have screwed up quite so massively. I never thought about it that way, but yeah, I could definitely see there being some anti-aboleth conspiracy at work, using their own hubris and super-magic against them.
Speaking about anti-aboleth conspiracy further - it's worth to notice, that aboleths did save some azlantians, by transforming them in gillmen. It is stated, that they wanted slaves for keeping their underwater cities. But after the whole operation was done, aboleths simply abandon them, because "aren't anymore interested in their creation". Very strange move. Why then even bother with this, if after you finish, you aren't going to use the result? And why use azlantians? Why not find some more primitive race, that can be warped to be more obedient, than this guys? And all thing is happening around the time of Earthfall.
At the end, we have two factions of aboleths. One that triggers Earthfall to "punish Azlant", but with potential to wipe even all of them in collateral damage, and they are ignorant of this at least. And the second, that tries to "save" a part of azlanti people for slaves, but after whole operation, just abandons them, because they're no more interested.
One can say "it's alien logic, what do yo want from it?", but seriously - at one moment, aboleths are going with a doomsday plan. At second, they're saving their chosen targets from it, to be slaves. And at the end, after wasting resources on the previous, and having damage from first, what do they do? Use a new race of slaves, that worships them, till the end of times? Nope. They just swim away.
So, I think there really was something going on in aboleth society-goverment. And something, that wanted to cause maximum damage to them.
Glad people liked it. That was really the bulk of what I wanted to say, though I'm thinking of doing a Gulf of Abendego/Lirgen one and maybe a Ghol-Gan/Cyclops/Serpentfolk one.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ashkar wrote:
Cannot remember details, but there was an Old One dragged on Golarion surface, in his comet, by aboleth's meteor.
And speaking about ideas/conspiracies:
The whole aboleth plan, to punish Azlant with a meteor bugs me - it is sad, that it ultimately backfired on them, causing a good piece of collateral damage, that affected their Second Empire. But this damage was caused by greatly weakened meteor (two Azlant gods gave their lives - one to put a moon on meteor's way, second to take away radiation and other nasty stuff from shards, after meteor went through). Imagine what it could have done, if not the sacrifice of Azlant Gods. And I have a feeling, this variant certainly does not include "no damage" option for aboleths. Considering the fact, that even a weakened meteor caused it. So, did they just miscalculate the outcome? Or were they so proud of themselves, that they didn't even thought about such "accidental suicide" variant? Or maybe there was somebody else, who tried to orchestrate the ultimate downfall of aboleths?
Even super genius villains make a occasional mistake, or occasionally find out t hat they haven't accounted for all possibilities. It's when plans blow up that stories are made.
Some idiot Azlanti decides that diamond dust should go into all the expensive cleric and wizard spells. From that day forward, spellcasters have had to find a way to grind the ultra-hard gems into powder. And so, the dragon-powered diamond mill industry was born.
It's actually not too difficult. Diamonds are hard, but not strong, and shatter/crush fairly easily. They are also freaking amazing conductors. Their level is over 9000!
I frankly love your take on the Vault of Ilvarandin and how it became the template for Aboleth Society design for Azlant. Solves a slightly lingering void in my mind.
It also provides some of the ammo for why the Aboleths act oddly during Earthfall, one group realizes that they have really just copied someone else and their God Complex Egos decide that is unacceptable and need to be rectified in the most complete way, a global extinction event.
They had some offworld gate ability to avoid partaking in the extinction event personally. But by also destroying a significant portion of their own empire or even eradicating most of their own race, they remove competition to their faction's dominance after the cataclysm.
Okay, I have a ton of new stuff from just two sources. Two sources that I didn't look at for my original timeline: the Beyond the Inner Sea section from 'The Inner Sea World Guide' and the veiled master entry in 'Inner Sea Bestiary.' I'm a real dolt for not referencing the veiled master entry, but the Nameless Spire bit of info was easy to miss. Anyway, I'll look at both below. Shockingly, these sources actually sort of back up my theories. And without cherry picking!
The Inner Sea World Guide (pg. 207):
The Nameless Spires are said to "...predate Thassilon, Azlant, and even the coming of aboleths to Golarion." This is super important for a few reasons. First, it tells me that whatever built the Nameless Spires was most likely the first intelligent lifeform on Golarion. If they were the Vault Builders, and the Vault Builders were in fact the elohim, that would mean that elohim could very well have created most life on Golarion. However, while I'm like 99% sure the Vault Builders were elohim, I'm only about 51% sure they built the Nameless Spires.
If the Vault Builders/elohim didn't do it, than who did? The only other candidate I have are elder things. The strongest bit of support for this comes not from a Pathfinder book, but from HP Lovecraft's 'At The Mountains of Madness.' There, the protagonists visit a ruined elder thing city in Antarctica, wherein they learn that life on Earth was the result of elder thing experiments. Given Paizo's affinity for Lovecraft, you can see why I would name elder things as possible candidates for the Nameless Spire's builders.
But then it hit me.
Why does it have to be elohim or elder things? What if these two races built the Nameless Spires together? These two species share tons of similarities. They are both neutral (elder things lawful neutral, elohim true neutral), utterly alien in appearance, supremely intelligent, and highly advanced in the fields of science and life creation. What if elohim are actually highly advanced, ascended elder things?
Inner Sea Bestiary (pg. 57):
Before even getting to the veiled master entry, I want to touch on the fact that the Nameless Spires are said to have been built before the coming of the aboleths. "Coming" can mean several things, but taken literally, it would imply that aboleths came to Golarion from someplace else. They didn't evolve there, were not created there by an outside force, etc. It's an important distinction, and would mean they must have a home world or home plane of existence.
Now, as for the Inner Sea Bestiary, we learn a ton of stuff in just a single page. I'll look at each bit individually.
The first paragraph tells us aboleths dwelt in Golarion's oceans before humanity and even before most gods took an interest in the planet. The humanity thing we already know, but it's interesting to read that most - but not all - modern gods were not yet active on Golarion in those ancient days. I don't really want to theorize about gods, as that's a whole 'nother subject, but still, noteworthy.
The next part is far cooler. We learn that "In ancient times, elder forces and eldritch entities knew of the world." If these weren't gods in the proper (modern?) sense, what were they? The use of words like elder and eldritch suggests to me that they were Great Old Ones. As further proof, it's already been established that Great Old Ones existed on Golarion at some point in the ancient past. And while I'm pretty sure that is what's being discussed here, another possibility could be elohim - or perhaps some combination of elohim, Great Old Ones, and who knows what else.
The next relevant bit regards Azlant. Specifically, that the aboleths' "...hidden gifts and subtle coaxings" were a driving factor behind humanity's rise. This establishes them as a subtle, behind-the-scenes force. They aren't about grabbing the world by the throat and utterly dominating it, even back when that was well within their reach. No, they like to take their time, pull the strings, lay the groundwork, and watch the magic happen.
Later, we find out that aboleths began by punishing the humans of Azlant in minor ways for their perceived hubris. It was only after these failed attempts that they resolved to just scrap the whole experiment with Earthfall. This tells me that aboleths, though masterminds and geniuses, are just as capable of making miscalculations and errors as anyone else. They thought they had humanity under their tentacle-thumbs, thought that they could just gently cajole their pets back on the right track, and were mistaken. Then, they made another, far larger mistake with Earthfall.
Or was Earthfall actually a mistake? Was the devastation actually just as terrible as the aboleths had intended? Because the paragraph closes by nothing that, after Azlant was wiped from the map, "... the veiled masters retreated to the depths as well, content for now that the devastation above would serve as a lesson that would never be forgotten." That sure doesn't sound like a mistake to me.
And of course, the end of the veiled master entry informs us that the veiled masters are preparing to teach a new lesson to the humanoid races. Because life on Golarion tends to suck for the little guys.
And lastly, on an unrelated note:
Dominion of the Black:
In my Dominion of the Black post, I mentioned I thought mi-go may belong to the group. Looking back, that may not have been my idea. I'm going to credit that idea to aetherwisp from this thread. If you read the thread, you'll find that a certain Mike Shel makes a very ambiguous statement at the end, suggesting aetherwisp may be on to something. And guess who's writing Valley of the Brain Collectors (promised to at last pull back the curtain on the Dominion)? Yeah, freakin' Mike Shel.
To further drive home a possible mi-go connection: in an interview with James Jacobs by Robert Brookes, James concludes by noting that "That said... there are more brain-collecting monsters than neh-thalggu out there..."
In a surprise twist, the Vault Builders (and Vault Keepers) are NOT the elohim.
As per Emerald Spire.
...
Sheds a tear
...
Freaking really?! Of all my stupid theories, that stupid theory was the one I was most sure of. Any chance you could private message me the truth? Or post it here? I'd be much obliged.
I frankly love your take on the Vault of Ilvarandin and how it became the template for Aboleth Society design for Azlant. Solves a slightly lingering void in my mind.
It also provides some of the ammo for why the Aboleths act oddly during Earthfall, one group realizes that they have really just copied someone else and their God Complex Egos decide that is unacceptable and need to be rectified in the most complete way, a global extinction event.
They had some offworld gate ability to avoid partaking in the extinction event personally. But by also destroying a significant portion of their own empire or even eradicating most of their own race, they remove competition to their faction's dominance after the cataclysm.
Thanks. Unfortunately, recent news (sheds another tear) could very well require rethinking the whole Ilvarandin theory. Since I won't have Emerald Spire for a few weeks, all I can say is that Ilvarandin has always stuck out in my mind. Why would such an ancient Vault contain a vast, nation-sized city built in so many unique architectural styles? I could only arrive at two possibilities.
1): It was built all those countless millennia ago, as-is. Someone or something took the time to create a vast and varied ant farm, in all those different styles, from scratch. Utilizing preservative magic like that later mastered by Ancient Thassilon, the buildings have stood more-or-less intact ever since.
2): The Vault was originally empty, and over time, someone or something transported various races into its depths. The races, having nothing better to do, decided to go ahead and... build a giant underground city over a long period of time. And despite including powerful mages like the Thassilonians... never bothered trying to escape, or record their endeavor. Or maybe a bunch of cultures willingly traveled there to, for some reason... expand on the megalopolis? Yeah, I really can't even make a coherent theory here. While that doesn't mean my first theory is correct, it does mean we just don't have enough info on Ilvarandin's history.
Now as to the aboleths, I asked James Jacobs a question about them here. Based on his answers and non-answers, here are a few more theories/points.
James wouldn't answer whether or not the aboleths were a homogenous, world-spanning empire. He's keeping that information vague. However, in a past post he did confirm that there are no rogue veiled masters. All veiled masters answer to the aboleth rulers, whatever those happen to be.
However, there has been at least one semi-rogue standard aboleth, and that tells me there are more of them. James stayed vague on this subject as well, but said that this particular plot point was building towards something. I have a feeling that no aboleth could ever be considered benevolent, but based on all this, I think it's possible there were aboleth factions opposed to Earthfall. They would be in the minority, and in direct violation of the veiled masters, but they may well have existed. And may exist still.
Maybe these rogues helped ensure Earthfall was cataclysmic enough to weaken the veiled masters' tyrannical grip on the aboleth race. Maybe they warned the Thassilonian Runelords of the coming apocalypse (though I think it's established that the Runelords came about this info through magical divinations). Maybe they secretly egged on the Azlanti people, urging them to throw off the aboleth yolk.
Again, I just highly doubt anything an aboleth would ever do could be deemed benevolent. But that doesn't mean they all have the same goals.
Alrighty, thanks to Jester David's info, I forsee a rewrite of part of my theories page. Obviously I'll need to get, read, and digest Emerald Spire first. Stay tuned I guess...
I don't think this is addressed anywhere officially, but I do remember reading on the messageboards somewhere that the aboleths really seriously underestimated the payload they called down during Earthfall. Still, even if that's the case, it seems pretty weird that they miscalculated as much as they did. Like you said, if it wasn't for the...
Aboleth are regularly referred to as having plans that are far reaching; well beyond the ken of mortal men. Perhaps they knew exactly what they were doing and it is only mortal conjecture that they had made a mistake?
Like Ripley said "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." Only the Aboleth were too entrenched/devoted to leave.
i.e. they had only one option to rid themselves of the plague but were far-seeing enough to know that their time would come again and it was worth the risk... for if they hadn't they may have suffered an even worse fate?
But it's possible that earthfall might have been a miscalculation and still be considered a success. We don't know for certain that they were aware of the inherent properties of the stone they brought down when they snared it. They smashed a more of their own empire than they wanted, but still delivered the lesson they intended. And they aren't exactly known for their empathy, and they are extremely long-lived and patient, so they might have seen it as an "oh well, we'll rebuild. We have time... we always have time."
Two gods also gave their lives to blunt the impact of Starfall, while they couldn't stop it, they might have been able to redirect some of the devastation towards aboleth holdings. Sort of a middle finger as they were going down.
There may indeed have been conflict among aboleth factions, if not among the veiled masters. Whatever the plans of the shadowy "masters' masters" -- including Earthfall -- it's reasonable to assume that not all aboleths may have known of, or agreed with, those plans. So the existence of "rogue aboleths" that opposed Earthfall isn't surprising, even if there are no "rogue veiled masters"; I think we can safely assume that the veiled masters know more about the "master plan" than their subordinates. We have little information about the "aboleths of godlike power," or the relation between the alghollthu and Great Old Ones; one might suspect that the aboleth lords are Great Old Ones or even Outer Gods themselves, but the fact that Great Old Ones were bound in pre-Azlanti cities complicates matters. This thread hasn't even touched on the idea that there are conflicts and wars among the Outer Gods just as there are among the contemporary gods -- which might explain the bound Great Old Ones and suggest that neothelids, alghollthu, Vault Builders, and even the Dominion of the Black newcomers all worship Outer Gods (perhaps the war between them is religious in nature?) -- but attempting to explore those implications opens up a whole new tentacular can of worms.
Generic Villain wrote:
...the aboleths really seriously underestimated the payload they called down during Earthfall. Still, even if that's the case, it seems pretty weird that they miscalculated as much as they did. Like you said, if it wasn't for the sacrifice of Acavna (the Azlanti moon goddess), Earthfall would have been even worse. It could well have wiped out the aboleths entirely. For a race of immortal geniuses, you'd think they wouldn't have screwed up quite so massively.
That does seem pretty weird, doesn't it? Consider, though, the possibility that Eox (already known to manipulate celestial objects...see Agmazar the Star Titan) may have had a hand in altering the asteroid's trajectory. It's far from impossible that the plans for Earthfall were known to them. After all, we already know that malebranche dwell on every planet in the solar system. Farafello is the most likely candidate to inhabit Eox; was he in contact with Alichino, Jester Prince of the Cage, whispering in the bone sages' ears in a bid to weaken Golarion? Supporting this theory is the fact that Draghignazzo and Scarmiglione -- presumably the malebranche of the now-destroyed Damiar and Iovo -- are said to sleep among a "completed conquest," insinuating that massive destruction on such a scale as Earthfall might well be part of an infernal plot. And the Eoxians -- possibly the ones responsible for the cataclysm that destroyed the Twins in the first place -- seem like just the sociopathic technomages to call when you want an astral weapon to go horribly awry. (And this doesn't even take into account the possibility that the Eoxians may, as Distant Worlds suggests, have developed godlike beings of their own that exerted influence on events.)
As for the Vault Builders, well, this thread is already riddled with spoilers. But the true nature of the Vault Builders raises further questions. Are xiomorns completely unrelated to elohim, or might they have been ancient enemies -- or allies? The interests of xiomorns and elohim seem to align astonishingly well. What's more, the xiomorns can create Vaults in which to perform all manner of geological experiments, but they can't create life...which the elohim can. In other words, the Vault Builders may not be elohim, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that (as Generic Villain proposes) the elohim, whether or not they ever worked with the xiomorns, created most humanoid life on Golarion.
Elder things and elohim also have a more-than-passing resemblance, even if it turns out to be superficial. We simply don't know much yet about the role of elder things on Golarion, other than their connection to shoggoths. But one does wonder if the elder things were the very first creations of the elohim, crafted in their creators' own image, who went on to build the Nameless Spire independently of the Vault Builders -- and inherited their progenitors' taste for creating new forms of life.
I stand behind my theory regarding the mi-go. Come Valley of the Brain Collectors, we'll see if I am proven right.
P.S.: The reasoning behind the use of diamond dust as expensive spell components deserves its own thread.
A minor act of thread resurrection to note something about this:
Generic Villain wrote:
This one's a doozy...
Spoiler:
Apostae and Aucturn arrive from the depths of space, becoming the tenth and eleventh planets in Golarion's solar system, respectively. Apostae is an artificial construct, a massive world-ship from parts unknown.
In 'The Asylum Stone' (pg. 48), there exists a magical window designed by the Runelord Karzoug that allowed him to view all the planets in Golarion's solar system - except for Apostae and Aucturn. Therefore I'm speculating that both planets are relatively new additions, and must have appeared after Thassilon's fall. Apostae is identified as an immense starship in 'Distant Worlds' (pg. 44-47).
In Slave Trenches of Hakotep:
Spoiler:
"This artifact [Amber Chronograph] dates to a more recent period known to Osirionologists as the Age of the Black Sphinx, and is thus about 1,000 years younger than the Slave Trenches.
Closer inspection of the base of the Amber Chronograph may provide an additional clue, for here, the hieroglyphs represent the 11 planets of Golarion's solar system, recognisable with a successful DC 15 Knowledge (arcana) or Knowledge (nature) check. The motion of these planetary orbits seems strangely synchronised with the patterns of numbers on the wall above, suggesting that the countdown clocks may well be counting down an unknown number of units of time before some strange planetary or astronomical conjunction occurs."
From this, we can ascertain that by 1,000 years after the Slave Trenches were constructed (so -1549 AR), Aucturn and Apostae were both in/a part of the solar system of Golarion, since it's very clear that there are 11 planets. It's not an exact measurement, but it does give a clear notation of the window of time we have. Basically, somewhere after Earthfall (since Karzoug would probably have updated his scrying window otherwise) but before -1549 AR, Apostae and Aucturn arrived.
Their arrival also slotted perfectly in-sync with the rest of the celestial bodies in the solar system and started up the whole countdown/doomsday thing (and the 11 are linked to Sekrepheres - when did the Egyptian deities arrive and leave Osirion, again?), but that's a different topic.
Purely speculation here, but:
Spoiler:
"-4363 AR: Rain of Stars. A massive alien spaceship crashes on Golarion."
Courtesy of the Numeria book. Now, since the people on said ship were IIRC running away from something/someone, I think we could also conclude, within reasonable doubt and understanding that it is speculation, that Apostae, Aucturn, or both had not yet arrived. I doubt that the crew would have attempted to flee anywhere near Golarion if they'd seen a giant living planet and a giant worldship parked at the edge of the solar system.
That would trim it down to about a three thousand year window. Maybe somebody else can take it further from there.
The
Age of Enthronement was humanity’s time of triumph,
so the Ancient Osirian gods retreated to their divine
strongholds in the Great Beyond; though they continued
to guide and protect Osirion from afar, they turned their
attention to a land on a distant world—the Old Kingdom
of Kemet.
Pulling in some Wikipedia:
Spoiler:
~3150BC is when Ancient Egypt unified under the first Pharoah. The Old Kingdom specifically is dated 2686BC). Using the Rasputin Must Die Earth to Golarion Time Conversion of 2795 years puts -4700AD:
Earth AD + 2795 = Golarion AR (per Rasp Must Die)
-2686 + 2795 = 109 AR
