So I just saw the carnivalist rogue archetype mentioned in another thread, and now I want to make one!
I know, boo! Hiss! Rogue etc.
But I really want to give it a shot! Anyone got any decent ideas of how to not make it awful?
Pfs rules please, and I really like the idea of human or half elf with a squirrel familiar, but am open to suggestions!
Thanks so much!
alright i was on my phone before, no i can clarify a little more.
these are great suggestions btw, never thought of those.
I will more than likely play this in PFS. I play with a lot of the same people around here, so if I know they're optimized enough, I'll pull out this fella.
I'm thinking skill monkey and huge comic relief. I'm picturing Squirrel girl . However i'm having a hard time coming up with strategies or build to not just be a complete waste. I need a schtick, whether it's having lil Nutsy (that's the squirrel, Nutsy) dancing around fascinating a bad guy or picking pockets... i need some strats and ideas.
can the squirrel fascinate while I sneak up and steal maneuver a spell component pouch etc? or would fascinate make me to be unable to stealth because I'm singing a song to nutsy? any other great ideas?
When I think Carnivalist Rogue, I think of Disney's Aladdin.
Aladdin's monkey familiar, Abu, obviously has the Pilferer archetype.
When I think Carnivalist Rogue, I think of Disney's Aladdin.
Aladdin's monkey familiar, Abu, obviously has the Pilferer archetype.
that's exactly it, do familiars get feats of their own?
Pilferer is an archetype specifically for familiars, not a feat
Familiars don't normally gain additional feats, as they don't actually advance in HD
Beast Bonded Witch (mentioned earlier) can give their own feats to the familiar though
Carnivalists get a bonus with Handle Animal. It seems a shame to waste it.
Gnome Rogue (scout, carnivalist archetypes)
Feats
1: Arcane Strike
3: Nature Soul
5: Animal Ally (something small - maybe a bird)
7: Improved Familiar (dweomercat cub)
Rogue Talent 8: Sniper's Eye
9: Boon Companion
Rogue Talent 10 (Advanced): Hamstring Strike
You're a second-rate archer with a surprisingly tough squirrel familiar at first. At fifth level your squirrel can ride your eagle into battle; buy some ranks in Ride. At seventh, sorry, it's time to retire the squirrel. At tenth you can pin down enemies with Hamstring Strike on your arrows.
It's not amazingly powerful but it should be amusing to play.
can you have a familiar AND an animal companion in PFS?
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can you have a familiar AND an animal companion in PFS?
You can't have them both be active in the same scenario. So, essentially, no.
Kitsune or Tiefling seem like the best base race (Close to squirrel).
A kitsune with a fox familiar would work well.
Carnivalist/witch should be playable. Prehensile hair (flavoured as tail),
feral speech. A witch is powerful enough that the combination probably won't totally suck. Won't be optimal, mind :-).
Alright I think I have a tentative character build, but have TONS of questions now. Again, I really appreciate all the help so far
A lot of my ideas revolve around how these questions are answered.
I think i am going half elf for the free skill focus (handle animal)
So my stats are tentatively
str 14
dex 14
con 13
int 14
wis 10
cha 12
I still have a floating +2 to give, but where i put it depends on what type of playstyle I am going to go for. So far there are 3-4 ideas floating around.
I will definitely dip into beast bonded witch for 2 levels. Probably get feral speech and ward for more versatility. Plus can use all kinds of wands and scrolls then. This is an argument for +2 to INT. also more skills higher DC for saves etc.
I will probably also use a longspear and a shortbow. depending on which I focus will determine if I would put the +2 into STR or DEX. ( i like the idea of throwing weapons but they just seem too feat/money intensive)
The biggest question is can the "Menace" trick be used to make my squirrel able to Demoralize in combat? if so then i think i might as well move the 13 in CON and move it to CHA for evolved familiar to get skilled for a +8 in intimidate. the thought of a squirrel growling and foaming at the mouth at people to scare them is too hilarious to pass up.
1. what are the rules regarding the squirrel just being on my shoulder or shirt pocket during combat?
2. Diminutive creatures get terrible setbacks for CMB. So despite having improved steal, the little guy isn't going to be stealing anything (which is pretty sad to me). Unless you guys know some crazy rules or ways to fix that?
3. [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/handle-animal] Handle Animal[/url says that handling an animal is a move action, but a free for druids/rangers with ACs. Since Wizard familiar is not called out, I assume it will be a move action to handle animal, therefore a ranged combatant makes sense.]
4. the familiar uses my skill ranks in skill, but does not get the class skill bonus unless it is a class skill in the familiar list, correct? is there a way to make a skill a class skill for them without using a feat?
5. can you get muleback cords on a squirrel, lets make his 3 diminutive strength a little better so he can pick up some crazier stuff!
I was also thinking going the spring attack route possibly or combat expertise- imp. steal etc. if the menace trick works like above, then i think i will try to flank and use aid another with helpful for big bonuses to friends (on top of shaken enemies and other witch buffs)
i hate to do this, but bump!
i would appreciate just a little clarification if anyone could help me out before i finalize this.
3- A familiar is intelligent, you don't have to use Handle Animal at all.
4- correct, it uses your ranks but its own attribute modifier, and doesn't get the class skill bonus unless it actually has it as a class skill
5-Yes, Animal Archive gives a squirrel a shoulders slot, which is what Muleback Cords uses
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If you want your squirrel to be scary, use beast bond to have it take Taunt .
Man suddenly I can see a build involving a familiar on your shoulder and you using Shatter Defenses as a viable rogue build.
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First, familiars, unlike animal companions, do not require handle animal. They are intelligent and are not animals but magical beasts.
Second, pfs does not allow multiple companions (of any sort) on the same character during an adventure. You may be a multiclassing druid, witch, summoner but only one of those three companions is showing up for the adventure. (And yes, I am just echoing what Pauljthome said).
If you want your squirrel to be scary, use beast bond to have it take Taunt .
Man suddenly I can see a build involving a familiar on your shoulder and you using Shatter Defenses as a viable rogue build.
oh wow, this changes everything.
First, familiars, unlike animal companions, do not require handle animal. They are intelligent and are not animals but magical beasts.
so handle animal and "tricks" aren't as useful as I thought for this class. It's just to use those bardic performances.
that shatter defenses build is super solid. too bad it won't occur until late in the pfs career.
a combination of evil eye and demoralize seems like an awesome debuff. any idea where i should put my +2? I have it sitting in STR right now just for better chances to hit and dmg, since that's what rogues generally lack in. but should it be in dex for better AC or INT for better chance to use witch stuff?
need 4 levels of beast bond witch
need 4 levels of beast bond witch
why's that?
also as far as demoralize is concerned: do enemies get the bonus to saves after the first intimidate?
I would recommend the valet archetype for your familiar and then load up on teamwork feats as your familiar will share them. It is feat intensive, but paired opportunists, feint partner, improved feint partner, and an improved familiar with a high charisma and bluff as a trained skill can be fun. Your familiar does the feinting for you.
Your familiar won't get normal feats, but maybe if you take improved familiar your dm will let you customize the starting feats. Combat expertise, gang up, outflank, and precise strike works well too.
need 4 levels of beast bond witchwhy's that?
Nevermind -- I had incorrectly thought that the feat transfer ability was gained at level 4.
I just thought of something, can the familiar i get from being carnivalist be the same one i use as my witch familiar?
or will i have to have 2 familiars (and only play with one bc of PFS rules)? or does my first familiar "upgrade" to my witch familiar too?
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The levels for the two familiar class features should stack. So 1 familiar, not 2.
Eric hit on the major flaw with the Carnivalist Archetype. You split your sneak attack dice with your familiar, but most of the familiars are Tiny, so they can't flank. That's a major hit to a class that's already on the weaker side damage wise. Damage isn't everything, and the squirrel demoralizing npcs is a funny image.
Another solution, if you want to make use of a sneak attack strategy, is to use Evolved familiar to give the squirrel's bite (edit: a 5 foot) reach. I did this on my Witch's arctic fox in Reign of Winter (picture the Aliens' second set of teeth). Mainly I used the familiar to provide flanking and aid another, but combined with the Valet Archetype (amazing just for the teamwork feats, ridiculously amazing when crafting is allowed) and Precise Strike and Outflank, you could offset a lot of the loss from having the sneak attack dice split. There's no reason you couldn't still have the squirrel demoralize, but it would also be biting for multiple d6 a round.
I think there is a feat to give a familiar an evolution point like an eidolon. Take that and give the squirrel.reachbon bite.
I know he's not going to be optimized AT ALL, just wanting to play a comedic character that isn't a drain to the party. I'd like to find at least some meaningful way to contribute besides being a skill monkey.
So basically my stats are same as above with the +2 going to STR for 16 str and 13 in cha instead of con.
squirrel familiar with the infiltrator archetype to make bluff a class skill
Lv 1: feat evolved familiar: skilled: +8 to bluff
lv 2: beast bonded witch multiclass, get evil eye or feral speech hex
lv 3: witch lv 2. get the other hex, gain "animal" patron (rp reasons sighhh) take Taunt feat for my famliar
lv 4+ take rogue levels and go for the shattered defense tree?
as for spells, my save DCs won't be that great so I'm thinking more of buffs/utility spells like blend , unseen servant, enlarge person, shield companion ...maybe chill touch?
I figure between the squirrel demoralizing and my hex, I will be a decent debuffer that can provide reach flanks and occasional hits. any more advice I should consider? any items or spells I may have overlooked that's really worth considering?
Are you going to make your squirrel wear a little uniform? Really this archetype makes me think of organ. Grinders with the little monkies.
Are you going to make your squirrel wear a little uniform? Really this archetype makes me think of organ. Grinders with the little monkies.
of course, that's exactly what i'm going for!