Regardless! I think he can still do Myx fine. Maybe.
Regardless! I think he can still do Myx fine. Maybe.
oh god yes
"Hi there, I'm a friend of your cousin. You know what you need.... A Dance number"
and we're off.
Something like that yes, Grey.
and so a whole new season of "Damnit Barry!" begins
Not a bad start to things, glad they resolved the main issue in 1 episode but clearly we have rippels.
Exciting end though
Mirror Master and Dr. Alchemy
Yep. We are just getting started with Screwing with Time by Barry Allen.
Though I think we should give Thawne some credit too.
You know it must be nice for the writers to have an actual reset button on the show's relationship.
"The couple has gotten too close, what do we do?"
"Barry Time travels and screws things up"
"Brilliant"
Yeah Grey, well it's pretty much the default MO for this show: How can we make it so that the thing people love doesn't become stale? I know! Make Barry go back in time and screw it up!"
Thawne popped up a lot earlier than the finale last season. I think they gave some timey whimey reason why he didn't blink out of existence yet, but I am too lazy to look it up.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Thawne popped up a lot earlier than the finale last season. I think they gave some timey whimey reason why he didn't blink out of existence yet, but I am too lazy to look it up.
I thought that Thawne popping up in Season 2 was an earlier version of him. Could be wrong though.
Thawne popping up was due to the fact he was coming from a time BEFORE he killed Barry's mom.
Also what Thawne might have done is just allow the cracks to show thanks to killing Barry's mom after he and Barry fought. Instead of the whole "Barry watches from the closet." Which might mean he needs to go back in time AGAIN to stop Thawne but only SO much. She still will die but this time he'll get his life back.
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I have a lot of questions about the way things have turned out that I'm not sure I can liken to actual plot or just really convenient 'plot science'.
If the Reverse Flash had to go and become Harrison Wells to get back to his own time (a la the plot of season 1) how did he travel in time in the flashpoint universe in order to save the day and kill Barry's mom?
When he did kill Barry's mom did he immediately head off to do that all again?
Is it a 'distance in time' thing like the sickness that hits the characters on legends of tomorrow that made Thawne/Wells have to 'season 1'?
Is the thing that skewed Barry's life in the 'regular' universe that three months that Thawne was locked up during Flashpoint?
Will all of this stuff be answered? Am I thinking about it too much?
Does Barry still have a wisdom of 5?
...The answer to that last one is likely yes.
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Set,
Wrong guy.
Rkotitan,
The answer the last one is an emphatic yes.
But to answer the first one - Barry was the one that brought him to Flashpoint. Therefore he was already there when Barry started to feel the effects of it.
No one knows about the third question since it's unclear just WHAT caused it, if anything.
The other two are as follows: Maybe and Maybe Not.
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Well, that was interesting....
I saw another trailer showing they'll be bringing back John Wesley Ship back as Jay Garrick. Here's hoping the elder statesman of the speed force can talk some 'Don't f@%! with time" sense into Barry.
Now I just need to be patient and wait for Grodd.
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I don't know if it'd still be the Flash I love if Barry figured out he can be an idiot. I'm starting to wonder if the writers are smarter than I think, and his low wisdom is a character weakness intentionally.
That said, when I saw another f@&$king speedster as a villain in the first episode, I got concerned.
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Mean,
I think the idea was to make the Speedster villain more of a Wally West problem than a Flash problem.
Which is what I think Doctor Alchemy will be. Especially if he's got the Stone.
Aber,
I think it was intentionally short so people wouldn't complain about the lack of conflict. Plus you know, how long can you keep Thawne in that anyway?
I think it was intentionally short so people wouldn't complain about the lack of conflict. Plus you know, how long can you keep Thawne in that anyway?
What do you mean confict? Do you mean between the shows?
That's my theory anyway. Here they got to do a Flashpoint alternate reality.... without seriously screwing up the continuity of Arrow and LoT. Combined universe is fun and all, but you can't rely on every die-hard arrow fan automatically being a Flash fan too ;)
I've spent a while this summer wondering how they would juggle that issue... I'm pretty pleased with how they did it.
Phantom,
I meant more like conflict in terms of "Barry's life is great." "Barry doesn't need to save the world." "Barry and Iris are together and happy." They changed that to add that element. You know, on top of the whole Doctor Alchemy and others coming along.
As for how it impacts Arrow and/or LoT, I hadn't really thought of it much in terms of I hoped it would undo what happened to Laurel but otherwise I expected the team to be pretty much be new anyway.
yeah... I don't think they did a very good job with that. Things weren't great in the new world... Some things were great, some things were bad...
but really nothing at all was 'Please murder my momma' bad.
I can understand trying to help everyone... but that's a heck of a choice to make.
Phantom,
With regards to that, while there wasn't an explanation (YET!) I think it's probably due to the fact Barry accidentally stole Wally's speed. That's at least my explanation. Whether or not it proves true...probably come later in the season.
I do get people didn't like letting Thawne win, but I don't think the time stream (especially when you consider the impact Barry will have a on the future) could allow a non-Barry Flash to work inside until it was done with him.
That's at least my closest idea/theory.
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Kal,
Yeah but he wasn't dead...so there's that.
So tonight's episode, what did people think?
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Hmmm....
I wonder if one of those four husks will turn out to have been from Caitlin Snow....
I just want to hear Julian say "Wait until my father hears about this!". Otherwise, he's perfectly snarky and douchie, but with a hint of being a really good guy who wants to do his job.
Loved me some more Jay Garrick! He was really pulling off the mentor moment. I was waiting for him to call Barry "Junior". Here's hoping they'll give us some more of him.
I'm still not sold on Clariss. He was always a Jay Garrick villain.
Glad Barry finally did a bit of the old man-up and admit your mistakes. Although it did seem everyone got over their baggage really quickly, maybe too quickly....
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So, on a side note, it seems to me that John Diggle won't be returning to Arrow. Otherwise they'd have to explain to 'Arrow-but-not-Flash' fans why Diggle has a son instead of a daughter...
Also FWIW, even the 1st Season Flash timeline wasn't the original one, it was the timeline altered by Reverse Flash after he killed Barry's mother and then accelerated Flash's development by several years so he could gather the speedforce energy to go home. No clue at all what that timeline was like, though the pre-1st Season Flash was presumably more mature than current Barry.
So, on a side note, it seems to me that John Diggle won't be returning to Arrow. Otherwise they'd have to explain to 'Arrow-but-not-Flash' fans why Diggle has a son instead of a daughter...
Also FWIW, even the 1st Season Flash timeline wasn't the original one, it was the timeline altered by Reverse Flash after he killed Barry's mother and then accelerated Flash's development by several years so he could gather the speedforce energy to go home. No clue at all what that timeline was like, though the pre-1st Season Flash was presumably more mature than current Barry.
John Diggle was on the first episode; he's still Oliver's friend just not sidekick. He was also in the CW fight show thing, and I doubt they would put him in that if he was gone from the show.
Given that we are getting a 4 way crossover soon, I think they might just be working on the assumption that folks should watch all 4 shows.
Having had time to digest this, I'm in a complaint mode.
IF Jay had been monitoring Barry like he said WHY THE HELL DID HE LET HIM DO IT THE FIRST TIME?!! I mean seriously. If it's that bad a thing and Jay seems to indicate that, I'd like to know how he let the FIRST Flashpoint happen in the first place. That really bugs me.
Stuff that doesn't bug me: So now Diggle has a son. Just means that now we'll have Conner Hawke some time down the road. Like when we saw the future in 2056 or whatever.
Alchemy being able to change people. Dude, it's ALCHEMY! How many times have we, Pathfinder peoples, talked about how you change one thing into another.
As for one of the husks being Caitlin, part of me hopes so in the sense it would be a further alteration of her character thanks to Flashpoint, the other is just the fact perhaps her Mom did this to her.
I'm also semi-thinking/believing that Julian MIGHT be Doctor Alchemy. But I could be wrong. I do think though this:
Alchemy is preparing this Earth for the Reign of the Speedsters. Let's not forget we have Godspeed and Savitar coming.
Having had time to digest this, I'm in a complaint mode.
IF Jay had been monitoring Barry like he said WHY THE HELL DID HE LET HIM DO IT THE FIRST TIME?!! I mean seriously. If it's that bad a thing and Jay seems to indicate that, I'd like to know how he let the FIRST Flashpoint happen in the first place. That really bugs me.
Joys of Time Travel...Jay wasn't monitoring Barry until after Flashpoint, at which point the timeline was change and Jay had now always been monitoring him (headspin).
To be fair, even in the pre-Flashpoint timeline, Jay was a prisoner of Zoom for quite a while, so any monitoring would have started after that, unless Flashpoint significantly changed Zoom's history as well.
It still doesn't seem to add up since even pre-Flashpoint, there was still like...10 hours between the time Jay left and the time Barry did the deed.
But you're right about one thing, headspin thanks to Timey-Whimey.
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Well, that and Jay had to learn everything that had happened from Harry. I imagine that took some time after they'd returned to Earth-2.
So, I get the impression Jay learned of all that Barry went through *during* Barry's 3 month holiday in the Flashpoint Timeline, not in the scant hours between Jay's recovering and Barry dashing back to save his mom.
And on that note, I had hoped Cisco would get indignant with Barry like he did, but I was hoping for a more pained response from Barry. Something along the lines of "Cisco, I had to beg RF to go back and *MURDER MY MOTHER* to try and fix all this, and it's still broken! Do you really think I wouldn't save your brother if I could?" If only because I think Grant has some acting chops and could have really nailed such a scene.
Jay monitoring Barry doesn't necessarily translate into having omniscient view of all of his actions.
Drah,
Okay well put in that perspective I guess I can see that. It just seemed...weird to do that the second time Barry tries to fix stuff.
Dal also helps with his explanation. That might have taken some time to adjust stuff for Jay.
As for that last point, Dal, I thought he did good enough especially since I think that even Cisco understood what fixing the timeline meant to Barry. At least I'm pretty sure he understood. I mean having your mom murdered again, and not fixing it...that's pretty huge.
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So, on a side note, it seems to me that John Diggle won't be returning to Arrow. Otherwise they'd have to explain to 'Arrow-but-not-Flash' fans why Diggle has a son instead of a daughter...
Also FWIW, even the 1st Season Flash timeline wasn't the original one, it was the timeline altered by Reverse Flash after he killed Barry's mother and then accelerated Flash's development by several years so he could gather the speedforce energy to go home. No clue at all what that timeline was like, though the pre-1st Season Flash was presumably more mature than current Barry.
Indeed. I often forget this fact. I recall one tidbit was that due to Thrawne's manipulations (while disguised as Wells) the particle accelerator explosion occurred years ahead of schedule from what Eobard originally remembered.
Kal,
I like Barry and Iris together. It helps keep him grounded.
Also I was reading some comments on another messageboard about this episode. They brought up a good point; IF Eobard hadn't killed Barry's mom, wouldn't he still have become the Flash because it was 'destined' to happen anyway? Unless I'm missing something...
So anyways. Jesse Quick next time! :)
Kal,
I like Barry and Iris together. It helps keep him grounded.
Also I was reading some comments on another messageboard about this episode. They brought up a good point; IF Eobard hadn't killed Barry's mom, wouldn't he still have become the Flash because it was 'destined' to happen anyway? Unless I'm missing something...
So anyways. Jesse Quick next time! :)
His destiny included EoBard killing Barry's mother. Destiny isn't always a linear process when time travel is involved. Just like on "Assignment Earth", the crew of the Enterprise were destined to interfere with Gary Seven's mission.
Gary who?!
Also I guess we all have different ideas about destiny perhaps...
Gary who?!
Also I guess we all have different ideas about destiny perhaps...
Gary Seven - Original Trek referance. Kirk and crew use time travel to witness one of the Apollo missionsfor historical reasons and discover a mystery alien meddling with it.
His destiny included EoBard killing Barry's mother. Destiny isn't always a linear process when time travel is involved. Just like on "Assignment Earth", the crew of the Enterprise were destined to interfere with Gary Seven's mission.Kal,
I like Barry and Iris together. It helps keep him grounded.
Also I was reading some comments on another messageboard about this episode. They brought up a good point; IF Eobard hadn't killed Barry's mom, wouldn't he still have become the Flash because it was 'destined' to happen anyway? Unless I'm missing something...
So anyways. Jesse Quick next time! :)
except it didn't really happen that way. Eobard going back to kill mom COULD have been him closing the temporal loop and making his own origin... but it also affected his own past. He had adventures with original barry who had gained his powers when original wells blew up the accelerator 'some time later'. Changing the past screwed up his own timeline, changed when barry got his powers, changed Well's history and the date of the explosion...
It wasn't really a case of just being his own grandpa. He spent years trying to manipulate the timeline BACK into a 'close enough' shape to make sure he existed.
Also still waiting for Eddy dying actually having a ramification >.<
THAT'S something that should have been fixed in Flashpoint.
See Phantom gets it.
Also I dunno why Eddie didn't show up other than apparently he might have changed jobs. I guess.
Maybe we're going to get Cobalt Blue? After all, in that version Eddie/Malcolm Thawne was a criminal from a long-time crime family.
Spiral,
Maybe yes but that would imply that Alchemy has Eddie's remains. I don't think a member of Central City PD being dug up would go unnoticed.
Gary Seven - Original Trek referance. Kirk and crew use time travel to witness one of the Apollo missionsfor historical reasons and discover a mystery alien meddling with it.Gary who?!
Also I guess we all have different ideas about destiny perhaps...
Their mission was to find out how Earth survived the era of orbital nuclear warheads... which did not occur in our real world history.
The Apollo 11 Mission was simultaneously being worked over by the Men In Black, and the 11th Doctor.
So you're saying we have time travelers to thank for the current state of affairs Drah?