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I'm sticking with one of the theories I've held from close to the start.
This is like that Jet Li movie "The One". Zoom/Jay/Hunter is traveling to various parallel universes and stealing the speed of his counterparts to become stronger.
Except Earth-1 (to his perspective Earth 3/4/5/Whatever) is unusual (from his perspective) and doesn't have a Jay Garrick Flash, it has a Barry Allen Flash...and he still wants his speed (or NEEDS his speed to survive for whatever reason).
This would also explain why he needs/needed Wells' help to steal Barry's speed when (apparently at least) he needed no help stealing the speed from any of his other victims.
@Sundakan: "This would also explain why..."
Not saying you're wrong, but this should only be true if the mechanism for stealing Barry's speed is somehow different from the mechanism of stealing anyone else's speed. Barry's connection to the Speed Force is different from that of other speedsters?
Different speedsters have different origins, of course, but the simplest thing is to regard those as different triggers for gaining access to the Speed Force, and that once access is achieved, the energy works the same for everyone (but still varying from person to person in what they've learned to do with the energy, and possibly in how much energy they're able to tap.)
On an unrelated note: I now firmly believe Flash and Supergirl are not in the same universe (there's still speculation about that on the 'net) and that Flash will travel to Earth-CBS by accident while trying to return to Earth-2 via some method that doesn't require an open dimensional breach. That allows the showrunners to go either way for a return engagement: either Flash & Co are unable to recreate the exact conditions of that accident and never return to Earth-CBS (probable) or they learn more about how to map the multiverse and open up the possibility of more reliable travel (less likely, except perhaps to Earth-2.)
I'm waiting for the Cosmic Treadmill, built using that particular piece of exercise equipment that's been gathering dust at STAR Labs for a while now...but I would guess Cisco's metahuman ability and/or goggles will also factor in.
I was thinking more along the lines of maybe different speedsters tap into a different "frequency" of the Speed Force, just like the universes vibrate slightly differently.
So perhaps the different frequencies are naturally "incompatible"? But otherwise can be freely exchanged between different speedsters who happen to hit the same note.
I was thinking more along the lines of maybe different speedsters tap into a different "frequency" of the Speed Force, just like the universes vibrate slightly differently.
So perhaps the different frequencies are naturally "incompatible"? But otherwise can be freely exchanged between different speedsters who happen to hit the same note.
Okay, yeah, I'll buy that.
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The fun thing about comic book science: Everything even halfway well-thought sounds reasonable, even if it's very, very silly. =)
For the March 28th event, Barry's going to her Earth; no opportunity for Diggle to comment. If they do a follow-up, perhaps she'll visit Earth-CW and he can be awestruck.
Then again, he's already seen Firestorm and the Hawks fly without the benefit of powered armor, so would Supergirl really be all that different? (Sure the Hawks have wings, but those wings can't provide near enough lift for human flight, and I don't think I've heard any mention of gravity-defying Nth metal so far.)
Well consider her power level compared to anything from the arrowverse. She can almost effortlessly destroy anyone there.That depends entirely on how much of an ersatz Batman the writers want to make Ollie.
True... Considering how they nerf her a bit... I could see Barry and/or Zoom giving her a run for her money too.
Besides 'kryptonians are too powerful to be in the same universe as mortal heroes' doesn't hold much water for me since that's the EXACT same argument I've heard about the actual comics.
It works there... it can work here.
Not even counting Rip Hunters pro-Superman comments.
Well so much for my Wally West Earth-2/Zoom.
I'm just wondering what made Earth-2 Barry become a CSI. Earth-1 Barry was driven to find his mother's real killer. Barry-2's mom is still alive and well. So why is he there? Why not a more upwardly mobile job in chemistry, or some other scientific field, since Barry is obviously skilled in more than one discipline (as we can see from his observations on Wally's engineering project.)
Also, something that bugged me from the prior episode. I realize Barry and Cisco were caught up with all the doppelganger nonsense, but shouldn't they have had at least some small reaction to the words "Mayor Snart?"
I'm just wondering what made Earth-2 Barry become a CSI. Earth-1 Barry was driven to find his mother's real killer. Barry-2's mom is still alive and well. So why is he there? Why not a more upwardly mobile job in chemistry, or some other scientific field, since Barry is obviously skilled in more than one discipline (as we can see from his observations on Wally's engineering project.)
Also, something that bugged me from the prior episode. I realize Barry and Cisco were caught up with all the doppelganger nonsense, but shouldn't they have had at least some small reaction to the words "Mayor Snart?"
Well, originally Comic Earth-1 Barry became police scientist without the need for Mom being murdered...
Also being mayor doesnt' mean Snart was a good guy... if anything it may have been refreshing to see a crook still a crook :P
I dunno, as far as for why Earth 2 Barry would be a CSI, lots of people make choices in profession based as much on interest as they do monetary reasons.
My comment wasn't meant to imply that Snart-2 is a good guy. I just think that with all their concern over the doppelgangers they know, you'd think they would show some alarm at having the entire city under Snart's direct supervision.
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This version of Vixen can fly.
Yeah, fly like an eagle. Run like a cheetah, track like a bloodhound, charge like a rhino, hear like an owl, climb like a spider, blend into the background like a chameleon (in the animated appearance, anyway), and pound luggage like a gorilla. (Eventually she'll get clever and start tapping into the strength of an elephant, or a blue whale, or give someone a mantis shrimp punch...)
What an awesomely versatile character.
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This version of Vixen can fly.Yeah, fly like an eagle. Run like a cheetah, track like a bloodhound, charge like a rhino, hear like an owl, climb like a spider, blend into the background like a chameleon (in the animated appearance, anyway), and pound luggage like a gorilla. (Eventually she'll get clever and start tapping into the strength of an elephant, or a blue whale, or give someone a mantis shrimp punch...)
What an awesomely versatile character.
Indeed, I always liked Vixen (and Animal Man), and consider her to be a vastly underused character. She had an excellent guest starring role in a (Wally)Flash vs Grodd story back in the day.
This version of Vixen can fly.Yeah, fly like an eagle. Run like a cheetah, track like a bloodhound, charge like a rhino, hear like an owl, climb like a spider, blend into the background like a chameleon (in the animated appearance, anyway), and pound luggage like a gorilla. (Eventually she'll get clever and start tapping into the strength of an elephant, or a blue whale, or give someone a mantis shrimp punch...)
What an awesomely versatile character.
She did Elephant this episode (and in the cartoon shorts).
Also, she can't channel any animal, only "African" ones.
Was that stated? She actually said "The spirit of any animal" in both series'.
Regardless, she needs to start reading up on her insects. She's been channeling the power of kangaroos and whatnot to leap around when she should be going for the legs of a flea or grasshopper.
Also, she can't channel any animal, only "African" ones.Was that stated? She actually said "The spirit of any animal" in both series'.
Regardless, she needs to start reading up on her insects. She's been channeling the power of kangaroos and whatnot to leap around when she should be going for the legs of a flea or grasshopper.
I'm not sure that's a good idea... A giant flea would have its legs broken before it could jump... :P
But, yeah... If Vixen can use insect abilities, she'll be pretty overpowered. I personally like the idea of her being limited to African vertebrates... It's still a lot of powers, but has some limitations... Flash pretty much proves that these writers aren't very good at making believable challenges for powerful characters .
By the by, does anyone know why there's such a huge delay between episodes? They just got back from break, there shouldn't be a month gap already.
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Bahhh... I've heard the same thing from the writers of the comics. Flash is one of the least fun characters to write, because literally EVERY fight would be over in half a second.
Run in... punch 300 times... leave.
Same with superman. Most writers completely ignore the superspeed in a fight just to make it somewhat interesting....
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.Bahhh... I've heard the same thing from the writers of the comics. Flash is one of the least fun characters to write, because literally EVERY fight would be over in half a second.
Run in... punch 300 times... leave.
Same with superman. Most writers completely ignore the superspeed in a fight just to make it somewhat interesting....
I'm not really much of a DC fan, but they do tend to overpower their heroes. And please for god's sake don't anyone try to counter that with Batman....he's the most overpowered character in all of comics....hell all of fiction. He has the ultimate power of being THE most ridiculous Mary Sue...ever. Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way would blush to read some of the BS that Batman pulls off.
Look all I know is a) I was wrong about Zoom = Wally West Earth 2 (or even Earth 3)
Secondly, I'm still convinced the Jay that was killed was a Clone.
Thirdly, the masked man is the ACTUAL Jay Garrick.
Fourthly, yes Zoom = Hunter Zolomon...maybe.
.Bahhh... I've heard the same thing from the writers of the comics. Flash is one of the least fun characters to write, because literally EVERY fight would be over in half a second.
Run in... punch 300 times... leave.
Same with superman. Most writers completely ignore the superspeed in a fight just to make it somewhat interesting....
Indeed... But Superman at least has the benefit of facing challenges and opponents who are equally (or at least, nearly) as powerful. Or they are like Lex, against whom Superman powers are often of no help (and not because of lazy kryptonite insert).
Flash's enemies are... a guy with a boomerang, a guy with a freeze gun, a guy with a flamethrower... And so on... ¬¬'
Having a powerful character is not a problem, the problem is having a character who is far more powerful than everyone else... At least if you expect your combat scenes to have any tension.
Now... There are some opponents that could at least put a fight with the Flash , like the guy that turns into gas and the ones that are invulnerable or close to that...
But the writers far more often than not, take the lazy route and just make Flash act like an idiot. What I like about the TV series is the characters, they are very interesting and fun to watch (save for a few exceptions). The action scenes are pretty bad.
Action is decent. I just watch the show to see if they ever get Barry to hit Light Speed by himself...
Look all I know is a) I was wrong about Zoom = Wally West Earth 2 (or even Earth 3)
Secondly, I'm still convinced the Jay that was killed was a Clone.
Thirdly, the masked man is the ACTUAL Jay Garrick.
Fourthly, yes Zoom = Hunter Zolomon...maybe.
I'm reminded of a Twisted Toyfair Theater, where Kang the conquerer keeps going back in time to stop an old woman getting hit by a car... an d fails so he tries again.
three versions of Kang standing around arguing the best way to help her, when the fourth (earliest) version of Kang is killed instead.
The other three just look at the corpse with wide eyes while one mutters "That.... That isn't good..."
:D
Odds are they are all time hopping Jays :P
phantom,
Not sure about time hopping.
Also Kang keep popping up in various timelines because alternate realities are also different time lines.
phantom,
Not sure about time hopping.
Also Kang keep popping up in various timelines because alternate realities are also different time lines.
Yeah, but not in that comic strip. That was the joke.
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K.
Pretty sure I failed my humor check.
K.
[dice=Humor]roll d20-20
Pretty sure I failed my humor check.
Sadly I can't find a scan of the strip. For reference, Twisted Toyfair theater is similar (and a direct predecessor) to Robot Chicken. They would use or create those old Mego figures to act out their own 'comic books'. Used to be a segment in Toyfair magazine, but were eventually released in collections.
http://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/614033.jpg
As a tv/movie superhero fan that's never read comics, I really hope the multiple Jays are all from different earths rather than Hunter Zoloman. The evil twin thing has been a played out trope for a century or so.
That said, The Flash and iZombie are two of my favorite shows on television right now.
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I don't think there are any clones here, and having been reminded of some things we've been told, I don't think Zoom is "future Jay Garrick" (or from the future at all.) My latest stab at this is:
In the show (unlike the comics) Jay Garrick and Hunter Zolomon are twins separated at birth both Earth's 1 and 2.
Both Jay Garrick and Hunter Zolomon gained speed powers as a result of the Earth-2 particle accelerator accident because they were genetically the same.
The Jay Garrick that has been interacting with the Earth-1 team is not working with Zoom, but has on one or more occasions been impersonated by Zoom to gain information; Jay's serious injury/death creates the complication Zoom mentioned because he will no longer be able to carry off the impersonation.
Earth-1 Jay Garrick is the man in the iron mask; Earth-1 Hunter Zolomon is the man on the park bench. The "Jay Garrick" that accompanied Caitlin to the park was actually Zoom, who told her that Zolomon was Garrick's Earth-1 counterpart to cover up the existence of Earth-1 Jay Garrick (already captured.)
The fact that there is an iron mask at all is a sly clue, since there are far easier ways to hide someone's identity: Dumas' Man in the Iron Mask is about a twin separated at birth, whose significant existence was unsuspected until adulthood.
I really, really hope that's the case - because if the story is 'Mentor figure who has been working with the heroes is really the evil speedster' AGAIN I'll be pissed. I prefer recycling in my paper and plastic products, in entertainment products I want new content. Save the recycling for the package.The Jay Garrick that has been interacting with the Earth-1 team is not working with Zoom, but has on one or more occasions been impersonated by Zoom to gain information; Jay's serious injury/death creates the complication Zoom mentioned because he will no longer be able to carry off the impersonation.
Interestingly enough I read an interview with the writers and they said they are quite deliberately repeating that "betrayal but trusted friend" angle for this season. So if it's a deliberate recycling they probably have some kind of twist to pull still.
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And please for god's sake don't anyone try to counter that with Batman....he's the most overpowered character in all of comics....hell all of fiction. He has the ultimate power of being THE most ridiculous Mary Sue...ever. Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way would blush to read some of the BS that Batman pulls off.
As a long time Batman fan....I heartily agree. They do seem to make him almost completely unbeatable, always having a contingency.
Then there are the the endless crossovers between the multitude of Bat-books. Not to mention some of the more annoying characters. I stopped finally stopped collecting.
I've done the same with many of the once-standard DC titles - no more Green Lantern, Flash, Justice League....
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Some cool goings on….
And the blue lightening.
So, it seems Zoom is just a V-9 (or whatever version they have back on Earth-2) junkie. And stealing other folks speed force allows him to maintain a delicate balance between being faster than everyone and not going full-on convert to energy and dissipate. It seems to me, if this is the case, then all they’d have to do is wait. Unless Zoom has access to more speedsters on Earth-2, he’d eventually run out of someone to tap and he’d vanish the way Trajectory did.
Still leaves the big mystery as to which Jay he is. I think I’m warming to the idea that he’s just some other Earth-x version of Jay.
I’m beginning to wonder if the man in the iron mask might be either Max Mercury or Johnny Quick.
I was really hoping Cisco would use his vibe powers on Trajectory the way his E-2 doppelganger could.
That new love interest for Iris seems like a douchebag. Maybe we're not meant to like him....
I wouldn't bet on ever seeing Johnny Quick. His offspring, however...
Why give her the name of a comic book speedster if you're not prepared to go there? 3X2(9YZ)4A!
Also, anyone catch that
Ok what if time
What if man is Mask is Jay Garick E-2
Jay who visits E1 is Hunter Zolman E-2 working for Zoom. Possibly to protect Jay, similar to how Harry was working to protect Jessie
Zoom is Jay Garick E-3
Zoom is keeping Jay E-2 alive as kind of a Speed Force patch, to keep his system level until he can get something better.
He won't risk killing or completely draining Jay cause he isn't 100% sure he'll find another speedster anywhere. He wants Barry because then he could Drain Barry dry and still have Jay E-2 as a back up for if it doesn't stabalize him.
Also love that Jessie is heading to Opal City