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newby? completely avoid anything over level 3 to start. As levels increase, so do the concepts that must be understood.
If you are set on her playing a lvl 20 bard, I'd look into something that actually simplifies her role in the group, like the Songhealer archetype. Since it sounds like, based on starting at level 20, this is pretty much combat oriented play, the more healing the better - the songhealer, conveniently enough, can still provide a LOT of other buffs until healing is required. Plus, at lvl 20, she can literally sing people back to life.
I would also like to say, that if you are starting her off with these insane lvl 20 short campaigns and such, you'll likely destroy any concept of role playing she might otherwise develop.
newby? completely avoid anything over level 3 to start. As levels increase, so do the concepts that must be understood.she already done a good job with a lvl25 to 30 fighter,for the bard,just need a simple support build without any "combo" with spells etc,just something for help us and maybe let her do something in combat
The bolded part is the issue.
You're talking about somebody playing a class whom, for every level of its existence, is just "I go up and hit things until they go splat, something which every class (except Rogues) can do, and do a better job at it than I can."
Bards have spells, bardic performances, knowledge checks, as well as unique niche builds that are effective across all levels of play, all of which aren't available to a simple "I hit things" class.
To be honest, the simplest build you could try and do is making a Melee Bard, though I will warn you it requires a lot of buffing and preparation before-hand to be effective at any sort, and chances are it will be overshadowed quite easily.
Why are you so high level? Are these games pre-existing? If you are trying to teach someone the game start a new game at level one to three range and go from there. Also the gender of this new player is not relevant to the discussion, being female does not make the game harder to grasp.
If you don't need level 20, then seriously, play lower. You can't learn how to properly play any character at a high level. Even the fighter you mentioned was likely not played like a 'proper' level 25/30 fighter would have been. Just sounds far to video-gamey to jump right to those insane levels.
Of course, it is my opinion no one would ever adventure to the point of level 20, as they'd be lording over others to do the adventuring for them at that point.
I don't think you'll get much advice on 'building a level 20' anything, because most here would agree that you never 'build a level 20' anything. You grow it from lower levels over time, and it's experiences shape how it forms.
i know the fighter is just a thing with a big weapon that just make attack and damage rolls XD for the abilities,knoweledge etc,she have no problem in that,and since i never builded a bard,i just wanted to ask a normal buffer/debuffer support bard for the combat,like some feats,stat buy etc.
and when we start to play,i try to do the splat job with a rogue XD (i have posted the build in another post xD)
So she is aware how skill checks work, how Bardic Performance works, and how Spontaneous Spellcasters operate?
Then it's not a completely lost cause.
I highly recommend not building any physical damage. That doesn't mean you won't be in the thick of combat, but that you aren't in combat to deal physical damage; you're there to buff other martials, place crowd control where needed, and Aid Another as much and as well as possible.
To that end, here's the important notes:
-Race: Azata-Blooded Aasimar. Take the Scion of Humanity Racial Trait, followed by Racial Heritage (Halfling) at 1st level. You can get the Halfling-only Helpful Character Trait, increasing your Aid Another bonus by 2, as well as access to Halfling feats which increase your Fight Defensively/Total Defense bonuses, as well as confer some of these bonuses to adjacent allies, whom you will also be using Aid Another on to increase AC and To-Hit when you aren't busy applying buffs (which should be done as much as possible pre-combat) or CCs in the middle of combat; it's also a great investment sink when you're out of spell slots. Favored Class Bonus should go to learning extra spells as soon as you can cast 2nd level spells; otherwise go Skill Point(s).
-Archetype: Arcane Duelist works best in my opinion; you still retain Inspire Courage, but also get Bloodthirst and Mass Bloordthirst, granting your Martial Weapon Properties he might like or need (and synergizes perfectly with Shadowbard spell). Getting to use Medium (and later Heavy) Armor without spellcasting penalty is huge to keep you alive in the thick of combat. Throw in Bonus Feats (Combat Casting and Arcane Strike for free! Yay!), and an Arcane Bond Spiked Gauntlet that allows you to fulfill somatic components while it's equipped in-hand (allowing you to essentially cast even while holding, say, a Metamagic Rod) gives you a lot of power, including being to cast any single spell you know whenever you want or need it.
-Feats: Racial Heritage (Halfling) [for Halfling Feat pre-requisites]. Cautious Fighter (Pre-req, but makes Total Defense more appealing when focused on). Uncanny Defense (Applies 1/2 Fighting Defensive/Total Defense bonuses to CMD and Reflex Saves). Lingering Performance (essentially triples/adds on to your Performance Rounds/Day), Discordant Voice (adds 1D6 Sonic Damage to allies hits while Performing) Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard (Aid Another to AC as AoO; Combat Reflexes + High Dex = Works on many attacks), In Harm's Way (optional), Combat Expertise (Pre-Req, more AC increase for penalty to-hit; needs Int 13, but fulfillable by Int Headbands), Swift Aid (Aid as Swift Action, though only half benefit; great for securing the first hit for your martial), Extend Spell (Double durations of any CCs or buffs). Any spares should go to Expanded Arcana, allowing them to learn more spells to cast, whether they be of higher or lower level.
-Stats: Charisma>Dexterity>Wisdom=Constitution>Intelligence>Strength. Max out Charisma as much as possible, starting with a 20 Charisma base, working your way up with Inherent Stat Points, +6 Headband, and +5 Tome. The higher the Charisma, the more spells per day you can cast, as well as the stronger the CC and buffs. Make a lot of effort into your Dexterity to utilize Combat Reflexes, as well as increase AC, Reflex Saves, etc. Some Constitution and Wisdom are helpful, though not completely necessary, though when pressed, Wisdom takes precedence (if you're not aiding or buffing or popping CC because you look like a drooling monkey, you're not contributing). Intelligence is slightly more important than Strength, because you're part skill monkey, though only have enough Strength to make sure you carry the bare essentials; outside that, your friendly martials can have Bags of Holding for your other stuff. Focus on building your CLs and DCs as high as possible.
-Skills: Average 6/level = 120 total @ Level 20. Perform (Oratory) 10 ranks, Climb 5 Ranks, Swim 5 Ranks, UMD 20, Diplomacy 20, Acrobatics 20, Knowledge (Arcana) 20, Knowledge (Planes) 20. Any extras from Headbands and/or Tomes should go into other Knowledges.
-Required Buffs: Haste makes the Martials go 'round (and kill things). Shadowbard basically lets you have 2 Bardic Performances tick at once, so you can roll with Inspire Courage from actual bard, and then have another good one rolling with it. Extended Shadowbard ensures it lasts the whole encounter (assuming it's not dispelled). Mirror Images keeps you alive when Martials in combat try hitting you. Heroism is a great long-term buff. Invisibility and its Greater versions are helpful to keep enemies off your face, or to help your buddies get out of dodge without fear, though most enemies will have those bases covered in the endgame. Blur and Displacement are also great buffs, making martials less likely to hit you or your friends. Rage is also a decent one, though not great when it comes to "hybrid" martials (like yourself). Invigorate (and it's Mass versions) helps reduce penalties incurred, and lasts for a long time. There are others, but these are the biggies.
-Required Debuffs: Hideous Laughter makes enemies laugh while their friends get cleaved in half and can't do anything about it; great for a "We'll get to you later" CC. Overwhelming Grief is a little stronger version, losing Dexterity and a -2 AC, though he gets a save every round. Grease helps keep an item out of an enemies hands, or lets them fall flat on their face (or into an ally's sword). Dispel Magic and its Greater version is your friend for removing both powerful buffs on enemies and debuffs on your allies. Break Enchantment is its more specified, though somewhat more effective cousin. Crushing Despair is a great cone debuff that lowers enemies' to-hit, damage, saves, and skill checks, making them provoke more via Acrobatics, or failing more CC saves; a great initiate spell. Wall of Sound is a very powerful CC that does a sort of Divide and Conquer effect. Same with the Song of Discord, turning enemies against each other 50% of the time. There are others, but these are the biggies.
-Build high AC, Saves, and CMD: When you're in melee combat adjacent to martials and aiding them, you may or may not get focused on. Even so, preparing for enemies who have knowledge of what you can do is important, and doing this makes you a not-so-easy target to go after, forcing them to either reconsider to a better target to get results, or continue and die trying to get you; both of which they will be failing horribly.
I think that covers all the bases. Let me know if any questions or concerns...
didnt say anything about being male or female xD
hello ^^ can i ask for a fast help on how to make a lvl 20 bard easy to play for a girl that play with us,and is pretty newby to the game?
(emphasis mine) You did say but I suppose you didn't mean anything other than to be descriptive, still not really relevant though. Sorry if I got all SJW on you.
How old are you? No offense, just curious:)
If you don't need level 20, then seriously, play lower. You can't learn how to properly play any character at a high level. Even the fighter you mentioned was likely not played like a 'proper' level 25/30 fighter would have been. Just sounds far to video-gamey to jump right to those insane levels.
Of course, it is my opinion no one would ever adventure to the point of level 20, as they'd be lording over others to do the adventuring for them at that point.
I don't think you'll get much advice on 'building a level 20' anything, because most here would agree that you never 'build a level 20' anything. You grow it from lower levels over time, and it's experiences shape how it forms.
i know that,we just finished a 1-15 campaign after like 3 years (she play with us for one and half year),and thats why we just want a little fun break,doing some 3-5 sessiong games with strange builds or test character.
so i just try to make a random bard with what i find around T_T
is just for fill a role,isnt anything to keep for future things,or play hard
Sorry, but it sounds like she:
Has played a 25-30 level fighter for a short timeWas a part of a 3 long year campaign from level 1-15.
That is not newb level there. That sounds like varied enough experience to pick up on a bard - now, I still don't agree with a 20 level campaign, or even a one-off, but that's just not my style of play.
lol^^XD
Maybe add Improved Initiative to the list of potentially useful feats. Rolling the lowest initiative always sucks, but when the last person to act is the buffer, the entire party is impacted.
Going from a non-caster straight to a level 20 buffing bard, I see one thing that's going to be a pain in the ass: stacking and keeping track of bonuses. From my own experience playing a bard, I predict that she's going to have to answer the questions "how much extra to hit do I get?" "how much extra damage?" and the likes several times a round, and she has to have that answer ready if she doesn't want to drag down play with checking and double checking which spell gives which kind of bonus to what.
I don't know how others do it, but I used to have a document where I had written the individual spells's bonuses down, and I would then note which spells I had active, check them in the document, and write down the bonuses. I still felt like it took up too much time even though I had all the numbers right there, so I ended up making a spreadsheet with my most common buffs to take care of the calculations for me. It really streamlines things, so if there's any interest, I can try to convert it to google docs to share.
EDIT: Oh yeah, the buffs/spells that I've got in the spreadsheet are: Good Hope, Haste, Heroism, Greater Heroism, Inspire Courage. If you use Moment of Greatness, it will also let you know how high the current morale bonuses are.