Suggestions for a Rogue (Knife Master / Scout) PFS

[DM Aron Marczylo]

I'm personally quite happy with this build for the character, but I'd like people's opinions on anything I should change.

The idea of the build is she'd be focused on combat which is why she has no skill points in Disable Device (especially as trap sense is removed due to other abilities) and put a focus in acrobatics, swim, escape artist and so on. Her abilities also reflect this, keeping strength at 10 as I hope to gain the agile quality on blades at a later date and next level gain Finesse Rogue to get weapon finesse.

Also getting perform dance to go down the Shadow Dancer route. I use punching daggers with this character so that she is always armed and even though they don't have the same crit range as a dagger, the idea is for sneak attacks, but if she does run out she has two wrist sheaths loaded with daggers for a potential Ooze situation or her weapons getting destroyed by some other means along with spare daggers for hurling or backup.

Build:

Yolanda Vislinskaya
Female Human (Chelaxian) Rogue (Knife Master, Scout) 1
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +5
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Defense
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AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +1
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee dagger +0 (1d4/19-20) and
. . dagger +0 (1d4/19-20) and
. . dagger +0 (1d4/19-20) and
. . heavy mace +0 (1d8) and
. . light mace +0 (1d6) and
. . punching dagger -2 (1d4/×3) and
. . punching dagger -2 (1d4/×3)
Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6 (1d8/1d4)
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 15
Feats Dodge, Two-weapon Fighting
Traits blade of the society, shiv
Skills Acrobatics +5 (+1 jump), Climb +1, Escape Artist +5, Perception +5, Perform (dance) +4, Sleight of Hand +5 (+5 to conceal a light blade), Stealth +5, Swim +1, Use Magic Device +4
Languages Common
SQ hidden blade
Other Gear leather armor, dagger (3), dagger, dagger, heavy mace, light mace, punching dagger, punching dagger, backpack, masterwork, belt pouch, crowbar, wrist sheath, spring loaded, wrist sheath, spring loaded, 46 gp
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Special Abilities
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Blade of the Society You gain a +1 trait bonus to damage rolls from sneak attacks.
Hidden Blade +0 +0 bonus on Slight of Hand checks to conceal a light blade.
Shiv +1 damage with one-handed piercing or slashing weapons in a surprise round
Sneak Attack +1d8/+1d4 +1d8 damage with a dagger-like weapon if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.

[Rerednaw]

What kind of campaign setting? If it is a default game where opponent AC runs along the standard chart...then you are going to be hitting about 20%-40% of the time, assuming CR+1 to CR+3.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mythicAdventures/mythicMonsters.html#_cr eate-a-new-monster

I'd recommend swapping dodge for weapon finesse. Unless Dodge is a level 1 pre-req for something?

Any kind of concealment eliminates sneak attack. That includes fighting at night, in a smokey tavern, etc...so very dependent on campaign.

[shaxberd]

I would take the River Rat (Marsh or River) regional trait instead of Blade of the Society. It'll give you a +1 trait bonus on all damage with a dagger instead of just on sneak attacks. Also, a +1 trait bonus on Swim checks.

Keep in mind, this is only useful if you're going to stick with the dagger as your weapon, and not upgrade to kukri or something later.

[TorresGlitch]

You could look into the "false Opening" feat.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/false-opening-combat

[Imbicatus]

shaxberd wrote:

I would take the River Rat (Marsh or River) regional trait instead of Blade of the Society. It'll give you a +1 trait bonus on all damage with a dagger instead of just on sneak attacks. Also, a +1 trait bonus on Swim checks.

Keep in mind, this is only useful if you're going to stick with the dagger as your weapon, and not upgrade to kukri or something later.

Punching Dagger is not a Dagger. River Rat works with Daggers only. not other dagger like weapons. Unfortunately.

You NEED weapon finesse with this build, so either TWF or Dodge should go for first level.

[Corvino]

I'd suggest going for Cold Iron on a couple of your daggers. It's cheap, effective and has effectively no downside. Similarly it may be worth making your light mace alchemical silver for 20gp.

Why the heavy mace, by the way? The light mace can be used with weapon finesse, so I completely understand that.

I'd echo the suggestions above - Dodge is a minor non-scaling benefit for a feat, and the Mobility->Spring Attack->Whirlwind Attack chain isn't as useful as you'd think given the heavy investment needed. I know it's a Shadowdancer prereq, but it's still weak. Weapon Finesse will likely be a stronger option at level 1, unless you just grab a bow and rely on the party to carry you a bit.

Personally I don't rate Shadowdancers highly. You pay a heavy feat tax to get the PrC, and half the class features are just duplicates of Rogue abilities anyway, but without additional Sneak Attack dice. I'd much rather play a ninja if I were going for a Rogue with supernatural abilities.

[shaxberd]

Having played a Skulking Slayer, I will suggest that you be certain that you want to give up Trapfinding, which you have to do to take Knife Master. The rest of the party will always be expecting you to be able to handle traps. Having learned that lesson, I always try to keep Trapfinding available.

[DM Aron Marczylo]

The dodge replacement is good. I was thinking of taking finesse rogue which gives you weapon finesse in the form of a rogue trait, but it does hideously hamper my attack as you've all pointed out and I can take it at 2nd level under the rogue talent to gain a the dodge feat.

@Corvino: The build idea was basically a master of stealth, which can be granted with the first level of Shadow Dancer as it's able to hide in plain sight.

@Shaxberd: that is why I'd check with the party if they want a rogue who wouldn't be good with traps, but most other things. When I was a MMOer I was a Alt-a-holic so I have many characters at 1st level for PFS so I'm simply going to look at the line up and then find a creature to fit it.

[marcryser]

I palayed a Fighter(Brawler)/Rogue(Knifemaster) in society play and got him to 8th level. It was a TWF build with two weapon feint so I could give myself sneak attacks even in a party where I didn't have a flanking buddy. The 3rd level of brawler gives +3 damage with close combat weapons (punch dagger incl) and the 4th level gave weapon specialization.

A decent strength (14) and a high dex (for the TWF feats) and magic punch daggers meant that I was +8/+8/+3 if I had to fight on my own and +10/+10/+5 if I had a flanking partner. Each sneak attack (or successful feint) was d4+2d8+8.

[EvilPaladin]

Is this for a "regular" [event or shop owned one] or for a "home"[private] PFS game? If Private, I'd suggest swapping Dodge for Weapon Finesse at 1st level, then after your 3rd session and before your 4th you use the free rebuild rules of PFS to have Dodge back and Finesse Rogue. If its a "Home" game then the GM may restrict you from doing so.

[TGMaxMaxer]

+1 to starting with weapon finesse until after your 3rd game, then rebuild to finesse rogue talent at 2nd level before you play your 4th game.

Otherwise, you will be combat useless for the first 3 games. Especially for the season 5 scenarios... where APL +3 or +4 is pretty common.

[DM Aron Marczylo]

EvilPaladin wrote:

Is this for a "regular" [event or shop owned one] or for a "home"[private] PFS game? If Private, I'd suggest swapping Dodge for Weapon Finesse at 1st level, then after your 3rd session and before your 4th you use the free rebuild rules of PFS to have Dodge back and Finesse Rogue. If its a "Home" game then the GM may restrict you from doing so.

Have to admit, I didn't know about the possibility of re-build rules. Hmm...I'll have to ask the DM when the time comes, but it's certainly a good idea. In either case, I could use combat trick to gain the Dodge feat at second. As many pointed out, Dodge is certainly not as critical at the moment as weapon finesse. Especially considering I'm at -2/-2 with punching daggers.