|
Re-posting this reply by bbangerter from the "AOO's and free actions" thread.
It clearly explains why snapshot needs an FAQ and why that faq cannot be used to explain aoos and free actions.
Except as noted it's specifically NOT errata. It's FAQ. FAQ is when something always worked that way but people didn't know or understand. Errata would be changing something. Nothing was changed. It always worked as intended.Snapshot is a poorly worded feat that required an Errata to add an unprecedented exception for that one feat just for it to function at all. It is therefore not a good example of "100% proof".
Free actions may not be taken on other people's turns unless otherwise specified. Rage does not "otherwise specify" and therefore cannot be used outside of your turn.
And as counterproof let's look at a FAQ on summoners and life link.
Why they didn't make the same kind of wording change for snap shot I don't know, but snap shot, as pointed out, makes an exception to the rule, it does not establish what the general rule is. Either way it was clear how snap shot was "supposed" to work with a bow, but because what was actually written didn't line up with that it got FAQ'd.
Summoner: Can I use life link when it's not my turn, I'm paralyzed, or I otherwise can't take actions?Although the ability is listed as a free action, it's something a summoner should be able to do at any time the eidolon would take enough damage to send it back to its home plane, even if it's not his turn (as is normally the case when he's being attacked), he's helpless from Strength or Dexterity poison, he's under a hold person spell, and so on. In other words, it's not an action at all, and shouldn't be listed as such.
Update: APG page 56, in the Life Link description, paragraph 1, sentence 2, delete "as a free action"
Official Rules Response
|
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
Free Actions: Can you take free actions during an attack of opportunity? For instance, can you use the Grab, Trip, Pull, or Push universal monster rules after hitting with an attack of opportunity, since they require free actions and free actions can’t be used off-turn? What about Rock Catching? That seems like it could only work off-turn.
While you can’t take most free actions off your turn, Grab, Trip, Pull, Push, and Rock Catching’s free actions can all be used off-turn. This will be reflected in future errata.
So switching grip is still banned ? Just to be sure, in case it comes up (and it will next session, as always).
Anyway, thank you for you work!
I know, it is why I say "still banned".
But I know people who felt that the special attacks AND the grip switching should be allowed outside of your turn. I told them before the RAW, no free action outside your turn, except to speak.
Now, we know the dev intended some actions to be perform "anytime" and labeled them as free action, as per the present FAQ. Maybe they forgot some other that could have been featured in the FAQ, so I prefer to ask.
I don't care personally, but some of my players prefer to know, so I relay.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In fact, it is a pending erratum, but quite the opposite. Now rock-catching works when before it didn't work at all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How does this FAQ affect other free actions that trigger of an attack, such as Cornugon Smash? Are these intended to work on an AoO, or only on your own turn?
|
How does this FAQ affect other free actions that trigger of an attack, such as Cornugon Smash? Are these intended to work on an AoO, or only on your own turn?
As written, the FAQ affects only the specific actions listed.
While you can’t take most free actions off your turn, Grab, Trip, Pull, Push, and Rock Catching’s free actions can all be used off-turn.
So unless the PDT would like to clarify otherwise, Cornugon Smash can only be used on your own turn.
I'm interested in the case of <Shield Slam>, which doesn't quite specify itself as a "free action" (though what else would it be?) and which is quite similar to the <Push> ability that is called out in the FAQ.
Unless specified otherwise it's safe to assume it doesn't work off-turn. But the argument that it could be off-turn would rest on claiming that it isn't a free action but a non-action that accompanies the attack, like Power Attack—something you choose to use but isn't a separate action. Which isn't impossible, though it does seem rather implausible.
Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see Combat). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Shield Slam is not specifically called out as a free action, so it's theoretically possible that it could also be the most unfortunately worded action type in the game, "not an action". I think all of us on the Design Team universally wish that was not the name of a type of action. Other abilities that seem to be "not an action" include Halfling Luck, which is not an immediate but also not a free, and can be used off turn.
Wooot! keep em comming
|
|
Shield Slam is not specifically called out as a free action, so it's theoretically possible that it could also be the most unfortunately worded action type in the game, "not an action". I think all of us on the Design Team universally wish that was not the name of a type of action. Other abilities that seem to be "not an action" include Halfling Luck, which is not an immediate but also not a free, and can be used off turn.
Haha.
Yeah, it's possible that's where Shield Slam falls. Probably how I'd rule it, actually, just to give players more fun options for AOOs. But definitely in GM-call territory unless yall want to issue an official clarification.
Which doesn't seem necessary for this one small thing, but I'm an advocate for rewriting Shield Slam anyway, just to make clear that you don't *have* to slam when you hit with your shield. So maybe two birds one stone? :-P
So far, we have piecemeal clarification that certain free actions (reloading, grab, etc.) can be performed during an AoO.
Wouldn't it be easier to just clarify that any free action can be done during an AoO, because an AoO is "an action"?
Right now a lot of things are in a weird limbo state:
1) Can a character with Quick Draw draw a weapon during an AoO?
2) Can a character with Cornugon Smash or Enforcer make an Intimidate check on a successful AoO?
3) Can a swashbuckler use Bleeding Wound during an AoO?
4) When a White-Haired Witch hits an AoO with her hair, can she attempt to grapple?
and I'm sure there's a lot more to that list.
Is there anything that would become "broken" if it was just made official that AoOs are actions, and free actions can generally be performed during them?
|
|
So far, we have piecemeal clarification that certain free actions (reloading, grab, etc.) can be performed during an AoO.
Wouldn't it be easier to just clarify that any free action can be done during an AoO, because an AoO is "an action"?
Right now a lot of things are in a weird limbo state:
1) Can a character with Quick Draw draw a weapon during an AoO?
2) Can a character with Cornugon Smash or Enforcer make an Intimidate check on a successful AoO?
3) Can a swashbuckler use Bleeding Wound during an AoO?
4) When a White-Haired Witch hits an AoO with her hair, can she attempt to grapple?and I'm sure there's a lot more to that list.
Is there anything that would become "broken" if it was just made official that AoOs are actions, and free actions can generally be performed during them?
Easy to house-rule if you'd rather have it that way.
But for the system generally, I'd say it's better to be cautious. It's a complex game and the more out-of-turn actions a player can take, the more small things that can help bog down gameplay.
And given the game's complexity, there are bound to be unintended consequences from a blanket ruling like you're suggesting. So it would be easier in one sense, but then it would be whack-a-mole with potential problems cropping up.
Of course, even with those considerations different folks can assess the values or weight the variables differently. Speaking for myself, I'm pretty happy with the limited FAQ/errata we have here.
And given the game's complexity, there are bound to be unintended consequences from a blanket ruling like you're suggesting. So it would be easier in one sense, but then it would be whack-a-mole with potential problems cropping up.
I haven't heard a single potential problem, is the thing. That's why I'm curious if there would be any unintended consequences from once-and-for-all clarifying that free actions can be performed during an AoO.
|
|
And given the game's complexity, there are bound to be unintended consequences from a blanket ruling like you're suggesting. So it would be easier in one sense, but then it would be whack-a-mole with potential problems cropping up.I haven't heard a single potential problem, is the thing. That's why I'm curious if there would be any unintended consequences from once-and-for-all clarifying that free actions can be performed during an AoO.
One issue would be with future rules. It gives the writers one more thing to worry about, and even if there aren't any problems right now, problems would probably crop up in the future.
Simplicity is a good thing. :-)
I just wouldn't consider "we will individually FAQ every single free action as to whether or not that particular free action can be done on an AoO or not" to be "simplicity".
Well as it stands now, all of your examples are, "No, you can't." That's the ruling they gave. So unless they feel to make another exception all your examples are examples of things you can't do.
So far, we have piecemeal clarification that certain free actions (reloading, grab, etc.) can be performed during an AoO.
Actually you cannot reload during an AoO, unless you have the snap shot feat which specifically allows it.
Wouldn't it be easier to just clarify that any free action can be done during an AoO, because an AoO is "an action"?
No. You are allowed to take swift actions any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Do you really want to allow quickened spells to be cast in conjunction with an AoO? Granted that could be errata'd/faq'd to disallow, but dropping an item, dropping prone, or other various free actions are not really part and parcel of the attack itself being made.
It's pretty clear that the allowed things (grab, trip, etc) are things that are part of the attack itself.
Right now a lot of things are in a weird limbo state:1) Can a character with Quick Draw draw a weapon during an AoO?
2) Can a character with Cornugon Smash or Enforcer make an Intimidate check on a successful AoO?
3) Can a swashbuckler use Bleeding Wound during an AoO?
4) When a White-Haired Witch hits an AoO with her hair, can she attempt to grapple?
1) Drawing a weapon isn't part of making an attack.
2) I could see allowing this one as part of an AoO, but given the current FAQ it is not currently allowed.3) Spending panache isn't really part of making an attack, but again personally I could see going either way on this one.
4) Yes. This is specifically allowed by the FAQ, unless you count a free grapple attempt as somehow being distinct and different from a free grab attempt (different word, but really the exact same thing).
Spell storing weapons I suppose also can't be used off-turn?
I think the reason I'm getting so frustrated is because this takes something that could be extremely simple and makes it so metagamey.
Wizard: "You hit him, why didn't you dispel his magic with the spell I put in your sword?"
Fighter: "Well, it wasn't my turn."
Rogue: "That guy just tried to shoot you in the face with a pistol. Why didn't you get angry at him?"
Barbarian: "Well, it wasn't my turn."
I'd like to thank the Design Team for answering this. I'm glad that Rock Catching officially works now.