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I was actually unaware of the conflict surrounding remaining pinned. I've always ran it that you had to maintain the pin every round until your opponent was tied up (or otherwise subdued). I wrestled in High School (a lifetime ago) and figured this to be the common sense application.
But, just like assuming a wolf could trip during an AoO, real world applications don't always translate well into abstract combat systems.
Well, the pinned person's ability to escape being pinned doesn't change from his ability to escape being grappled, and since the grappler needs to make a CMB check every round anyway, he's effectively trying maintain his pin, even if he gets to tack on something extra. Otherwise the grappler couldn't move anyone around once he's pinned him.
Grappled is also a condition, but it ends if you don't maintain it. I'm not sure if maintaining the Grapple is enough to maintain the Pin. I'm honestly not sure how I would "want" this to be ruled. Allowing Pin to be maintained "for free" each round while you maintain the grapple with other options like causing damage would be an enormous defensive power boost to many monsters. That seems like a good thing in some ways, but unfortunately the Pinned condition isn't very much fun since it often means being effectively unable to act (kind of like paralyzed and such)
As far as real life comparisons go, I think that it is clearly possible for somebody who is pinned in real life to escape the pin without escaping the grapple. This was probably changed in Pathfinder to streamline things a bit and to give grapple victims a fighting chance. I could go on and on about real life comparisons to MMA and police work, but I understand that Pathfinder isn't supposed to be a detailed MMA simulation game. I'm not trying to change the grappling rules to be "more accurate" (which seems like an unlikely outcome anyhow). I'm just trying to get them clarified.
There are very few actual deviances from the base PFRPG rules set.Hahahaaaaa.... seriously?
No crafting. No xp. Prestige. Factions.
Yep, seriously. And you managed to sum up 90% of the changes in 6 words. Only one of which has any effect on the game during play.
If you don't like the rest (and NPCs being resurrected occasionally in scenarios seasons apart), then you have an issue with the Campaign structure, not the rules.
Aight, in my homegame we only change 'combat'. So, it is basically 99.9% raw then right. I can sum up the changes in a single word. We only change 'combat'.
Cool. So it is even more RAW than PFS, based on this standard.
I fail to see how this is on topic.
It never was.
PFS uses the Pathfinder rules set.
All in response to this gem. Because incorrect info needs corrected, when it rears its head.
There are very few actual deviances from the base PFRPG rules set.Hahahaaaaa.... seriously?
No crafting. No xp. Prestige. Factions.
Yep, seriously. And you managed to sum up 90% of the changes in 6 words. Only one of which has any effect on the game during play.
If you don't like the rest (and NPCs being resurrected occasionally in scenarios seasons apart), then you have an issue with the Campaign structure, not the rules.
Aight, in my homegame we only change 'combat'. So, it is basically 99.9% raw then right. I can sum up the changes in a single word. We only change 'combat'.
Cool. So it is even more RAW than PFS, based on this standard.
... his point wasn't that each word stands for 15% of change. Just that those six words cover 90% of the rules changes involved from PF core to PFS. The only really substantial one listed is crafting, and while that can impact many aspects of the game it's not an all-encompassing rules change. Prestige is a relatively minor change. Faction elements are a relatively minor change. XP is basically not really a change at all, to be honest.
Changing "combat" obviously isn't even remotely analogous.
I fail to see how this is on topic.It never was.
PFS uses the Pathfinder rules set.All in response to this gem. Because incorrect info needs corrected, when it rears its head.
Well, it does use the Pathfinder rules set. Like any other campaign, however, it's GM adjusts that rules set to the degree that he feels necessary to run a fun game. Some tables can practically follow RAW in a straight line, at least until they hit a situation RAW doesn't cover (probably about 4.3 seconds into character creation). Other tables carve RAW up like a Thanksgiving turkey and replace the missing parts with bits of duck, chicken, and giant cave lizard. But they're all still Pathfinder.
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Remy, you are contributing to the incorrect assumption held by new and non-PFS players that PFS handles rules differently. You are the reason people post rules questions in the PFS forum thinking they'll get a different or "more official" answer than here.
Which they won't. And their questions will just get booted back here. Which is frustrating to three groups of people: the person posting the question, the PFS forum posters who don't like their board being turned into a second Rules Forum, and the moderators that have to move the post.
Please quit contributing to the confusion. Your claims are erroneous.
Remy, you are contributing to the incorrect assumption held by new and non-PFS players that PFS handles rules differently. You are the reason people post rules questions in the PFS forum thinking they'll get a different or "more official" answer than here.
Which they won't. And their questions will just get booted back here. Which is frustrating to three groups of people: the person posting the question, the PFS forum posters who don't like their board being turned into a second Rules Forum, and the moderators that have to move the post.
Please quit contributing to the confusion. Your claims are erroneous.
Hahaha.
You are right. I am the reason people post things on the wrong forum. All of my clever ruses and disguises over the years, all the plotting, all of it is ruined now. You found me out!
Anywho, PFS uses its own rules. That is fact. PFS isn't 100% Pathfinder RAW, or even RAI. It has its own brand of houserules.
PFS does handle rules differently. It isn't an assumption, incorrect or otherwise... it is just a fact.
The fact that some people are actually aware of that has nothing to do with why people post things in the wrong forum. People post things in the wrong forum because they don't know better, or don't bother to check first. Most of the time it'll be someone who doesn't post often, and hasn't bothered to read the forum guidelines.
What you or I post in this thread isn't going to make any difference... the people you are complaining about aren't regular forum goers to begin with.
You can blame me for some weird pet peeve of yours all you like though dude... rofl. If it makes you feel better, have at it.
Fact is though, PFS deviates from Pathfinder core rules. Not all the time, not even most of the time, but there are some rather large differences.
Aside from the giant sections of the game I mentioned before... character creation is altered. Handling income and wealth and equipment is altered. Huge sections of books are not usable or are modified. Have you seen the 'additional resources' page? The list is staggering.
Then, one of the biggest differences of all. PFS RAW is LAW. Rule zero means nearly nothing. That is completely opposite of normal Pathfinder. Rule zero is before every other rule.
Make a character that is technically legal but absurd in any number of ways? Perfectly playable, ain't no one can stop you, despite being ridiculous or game breaking. The GM isn't a Game Master, they are a storyteller, telling someone else's story. And the PCs are confined to playing within the bounds of the script, otherwise the game simply ends.
So even how you are allowed to play is modified.
PFS is so very, very different from any other home Pathfinder game it should be embarrassing that you even need someone to explain it to you.
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An attack on that table is referring to the attack action which is an standard action. An attack is not an action per game term. Different attacks however may require different actions. Don't confuse the game term with the real life term, and Grab is using the game term definition of action.
I feel the confusion stems from a different point. Making a Melee Attack is a standard action. Unless something special occurs, you must use a standard action to make that attack. An Attack of Opportunity grants you the ability to make a melee attack in special circumstances. This doesn't change the fact that a melee attack is still an action, regardless of when it occurs.