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Actually (and I could be could be wrong about all this) I think the slightly off proportion thing is supposed to be true of all gnomes It's just really difficult to pull off in artwork.(Note: this isn't true of all Gnomes...just Lini)
I'm not weirded out by all possible sets of slightly-off proportions, just the specific one used on her.
Took a while. More should come later (that's what she said?).
Took a while. More should come later (that's what she said?).
Phrasing!!
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Paizo's next adventure path should include an all star cast of genderless tentacled aberrations that reproduce asexually after absorbing the bodily secretions of other species and pirating their good DNA and immune system information in a quest for cognitive evolutionary supremacy. Every one of these NPCs should be a potential romantic interest, and exactly half of them can be rescued by the PCs, and exactly half of them must rescue the PCs. One half of them can be picky about their genetic data harvesting, and the other half can just jump at every sample they can find, so halve the PCs can try to prove that their genetic information is worthwhile, while the other half can just enjoy the attention.
And when they love you, you know it's just for your brain, and the fact your developed a resistance to Chicken...
I heartily endorse and approve of your message, Ashiel ; Them Chickens are far too dangerous to be allowed loose on an unsuspecting world...
@Ashiel: I think you're exaggerating to some degree. I certainly like the strong female characters, as do many others. But...if there's an unattractive middle aged or old NPC odds heavily favor them being male, and a vastly disproportionate number of helpful, attractive, young NPCs are also female, which is a potential issue. You're obviously (because I say you are, clearly, that's all I need) just trying to perpetuate the status quo that hinders 103% of tentacled asexual aberrations from enjoying our favorite hobby. >:(Otyoughs aren't enough, and Paizo dropped mind-flayers, which was obviously because they were too empowering (and not because of intellectual property reasons), so now that just leaves us with fish faced aboleths and their hypersexualized oiled up fish-slaves, and who wants ugly fish-slaves?
Voice in the Back: "Hey now, I take offense to that, because I like aboleths and their fishy water breathing oil. It makes me hot and tingly when I think about it!"
You're influenced by the society man, and you don't even realize in because it's what you've been brought up to believe, you sheep! They're clearly an example of the bigotry of the writers who want to keep aboleths in the purple-male patriarchal-enforced sexual fantasy of being subservient to an infinitely intelligent ancient tentacled aberration that keeps them under control by addicting them to the life-changing secretions from their tentacles that render them unable to even exist away from their masters who control them in both mind and body.
Agreed, tentacled aberrations can fit in nicely with your average murderhobo lifestyle...
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I've not read all of the current sexuality/gender threads, but I would think the simple short time solution is to adapt the AP's NPCs to your party interests where possible.
I'll note again: This is a solution to the problem...but by being a solution, it makes it clear that there is a problem. And APs are supposed to minimize the need for such changes.
If I have a mostly male group, as happens 90% of the time, I keep the many female possible love interests female.
It's less common than that to have a mostly male group for some of us. My group's sadly mostly male at the moment, but that's more the exception than the rule in the totality of my RPG experiences.
If I have women in the group, I change some of the NPCs to male, finding replacement pics online if I have to, or spice the male descriptions up.
Sure, but see my first point above.
And because women are indeed often oversexualized, I tend to find replacement pics for some of them anyway, portraying them as average, normal looking women. Average normal looking women can be love interests, too, ya know, not all male PCs just shallowly stare at breasts.
This is true to some degree, though I'm not sure they're oversexualized per se (as a group, anyway)...just relatively attractive.
Yeah I would love for Paizo to stop being imbalanced to begin with. As that's probably not going to happen, I'll keep adapting. Something my (male) GMs tend to do as well.
Who says it's not gonna happen? Paizo's made leaps and bounds in being inclusive. It seems likely that, if awareof this issue, they'll go to some effort to correct it. I'm pretty sure they're aware at this point...
It's not only the female gamers unhappy with the situation.
This is certainly true. :)
One of the things to keep in mind, and this is not intended as a 'stop complaining, things are fine' statement; is that as has been noted in the past, it takes on average about half a year to a whole year before publishes material will really come out reflecting a change of 'publishing voice'.
I will admit I hadn't been attending as closely to the boards for this particular concern, but these past few threads are the first I recall people really getting vocal about this & related topics. Let's keep an eye on the published material from here on out & see if matters don't do a better job of equalizing in the next six months or so. I would also point out that the Worldwound Incursion was the first AP issue written by a woman & both it and Crystal's issue in Mummy's Mask had a higher proportion of potential male romantic interests seems a positive sign to me.
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Hahaha
He does have a handsome mongrelman with a crush on him now though. Now the paladin just needs to get over his self-denial...
But on the half-orc love interest front....you might want to keep an eye on the upcoming Daughters of Fury, maybe. ;)
& both it and Crystal's issue in Mummy's Mask had a higher proportion of potential male romantic interests seems a positive sign to me.
We've been told Iron Gods is going to have a better ratio too, IIRC!
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I was complaining about this around the time Shattered Star came out. Paizo has a frustrating habit of having hot female patrons in every AP since Shackled City. Paizo replied back then but there is a lag between feedback and development changes so hopefully Iron Gods and onward can mix it up some.
Don't know of Mummy's Mask has already started because we haven't started it yet.
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So far, it has the same issue (I am loath to call it a "problem", even for this thread's context) WotR did: the only two young attractive male NPCs are taken by each other.
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It should be noted that actually breaking up the Mummy's Mask couple would probably be a good thing for both involved, along with the side benefit of making them(well, at least one, emotionally) available.
However, even making that possibility known is going to take a GM willing to put it forth and a party willing to dig into the details. Seeing them used as just a throwaway encounter in some PbPs just feels so wasteful.
There's also a single, readily available and sympathetic guy that comes along fairly early on too.
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Love the NPC on page 8 of the Iron Gods Players Guide. And the female android and Kellid are both hot while wearing reasonable armor!
Page 7 as well. I'm going to guess he's an NPC in the story, since he's wearing a symbol of Brigh as a belt buckle.
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As a female, I find it doesn't matter to me. Of course, my GM The Silver Prince is very accommodating and can drop an NPC down into the game for use if need be. It's true, there are many more male gamers than female gamers as far as TTRPGs are concerned, so I see no problem with the general 60-40 female to male love interests.
Love interests represents an aspect no one at my table have interest in as a dm or a player, so one npc would suffice. Gender and orientation represent no value of the individual, and can be ammended by the dm to the situation at will, so this isn't something I've considered worth too much of a writers time.
On the other hand, more APs that place a substantial focus on these things would be cool for the rest of you that do enjoy RPing romance.
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So far, it has the same issue (I am loath to call it a "problem", even for this thread's context) WotR did: the only two young attractive male NPCs are taken by each other.
I found that to be a non-issue in actual game, as Velriana incinerated Khelru, thus freeing up Azaz. :D
It even happened utterly conveniently, as Velriana's statblock explicitly states she won't mind if an ally is caught up in an area of effect while incinerating foes. So I like to think the adventure as written was designed to break up the couple. :D
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As some people have brought up... WHY AREN'T THERE ANY MORE LOVECRAFTIAN TENTACLE MONSTER LOVE INTERESTS?! Or Kyton love interests? Some people like it rough you know! :P
I find it difficult to follow this thread on occasion, there are many terms through around here that seem to be assumed as commonly known, but I guess, as some sound Japanese, you'll probably need to be into anime stuff to be familiar. Bishonen? Beefcake? Lolicon? Maleficent? I have no idea what that means.
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I find it difficult to follow this thread on occasion, there are many terms through around here that seem to be assumed as commonly known, but I guess, as some sound Japanese, you'll probably need to be into anime stuff to be familiar. Bishonen? Beefcake? Lolicon? Maleficent? I have no idea what that means.
Maleficent is the villain from Sleeping Beauty (and I have no idea where she came up). Beefcake is just a term for (usually muscular) male characters who serve as eye candy (while cheesecake is female characters who serve as eye candy). Neither are from anime.
Bishonen are pretty, generally somewhat effeminate, men. Follow the link for more. Lolicon is...a bit creepy, as concepts go, see the wikipedia page for details. Those are more from anime.
All these things (not just those linked) can be found with a quick search of wikipedia. Gods, but I love wikipedia. :)
Thanks, Deadmanwalking. Though in the versions of Sleeping Beauty that I know, the villain never had a name, she was just "the thirteenth fairy".
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Love the NPC on page 8 of the Iron Gods Players Guide. And the female android and Kellid are both hot while wearing reasonable armor!
:D
plz be an ally plz be an ally plz be an ally
edit-a little bit more curl and he'd be a raygun-packing Richter Belmont
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Love the NPC on page 8 of the Iron Gods Players Guide. And the female android and Kellid are both hot while wearing reasonable armor!
Every time I see that Android, I see this picture in my head. Great image.
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Speaking of Iron Gods...
There's an important male NPC you rescue and, although not explicitly called out, could easily be a love interest. Actually, I'd almost guarantee one of my players will go for him when we run this.
There are two villains called out as redeemable, one male and one female. The guy seems easier to get on your side, the woman probably easier to actually "redeem" in the alignment sense.
Any of the three actually tie in to the rest of the AP a bit, which is nice. The PCs will definitely get some reward for any of them they don't just kill or forget along the way.
Other explicitly mentioned friendly NPCs include a young girl who needs a bit of rescuing (although not nearly as much as the guy above), an elderly male priest, and an older dwarf woman who hires them. I don't usually see player's romancing their sponsors or healers, but other groups mileage may vary.
So gender balances out pretty nicely across the board, but I'd say romance tilts towards guys.
Cheers!
Landon
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Love the NPC on page 8 of the Iron Gods Players Guide. And the female android and Kellid are both hot while wearing reasonable armor!
:D
plz be an ally plz be an ally plz be an ally
edit-a little bit more curl and he'd be a raygun-packing Richter Belmont
Dang. :(
You know, it's funny to me. Paizo includes more powerful female characters, female characters who are important to plots and games rather than scenery, and generally just representing more female characters in a game that is oft-criticized for being a "male-game" in a "male-dominated" (you can interpret the quotation marks as half-sarcasm) subculture.
And the result of that? Paizo suddenly hates strait women. Why? Because there's not lots of nice beefcakes / bishonens runnin' around wagglin' their sparkling abs and there are apparently too many female characters that are very detailed and could be, maybe romantic interests for interested PCs.
Yeah. Next thing you know, them uppity wimmins and gay boys are going to actually expect completely equal treatment, like getting to have strong heroic characters AND eye candy that appeals to them.
Pffft. What's the world coming to these days?
Every now and then you see a shot that couldn't be more off mark if you fired it in the opposite direction.
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The problem is, with all these "strong women patrons" in the APs, it's still condescending towards women. Of course the women need the help of the strong buff adventuring group of mostly males, and of course the fact that the women patrons are hot means the men will rush to their aid. From Jenya, to Cressidia to Sheila it's a trope in Paizo and it'd be nice to see them break it.
Context is important.
The problem is, with all these "strong women patrons" in the APs, it's still condescending towards women. Of course the women need the help of the strong buff adventuring group of mostly males, and of course the fact that the women patrons are hot means the men will rush to their aid. From Jenya, to Cressidia to Sheila it's a trope in Paizo and it'd be nice to see them break it.
That's only if you assume the adventuring party is all- or mostly-male. Paizo certainly doesn't. Most parties in APs and even adventure modules tend to have an even mix, and are just as likely to be predominantly female (even the "classic" Pathfinder party(Seoni, Valeros, Merisel, Kyra) has a 1/3 Male-Female ratio).
I don't see why adventure paths need romance options for either men or women. The game isn't about romance. If that's desired I'd rather see third party materials for the subject matter rather than Paizo working on it.
It seems to me this discussion is focusing entirely on the wrong aspects of the game and trying to shoehorn personal desires into a setting based on epic fantasy adventure. Not Romance.
Because there are never romances in epic fantasy adventures.I don't see why adventure paths need romance options for either men or women. The game isn't about romance. If that's desired I'd rather see third party materials for the subject matter rather than Paizo working on it.
It seems to me this discussion is focusing entirely on the wrong aspects of the game and trying to shoehorn personal desires into a setting based on epic fantasy adventure. Not Romance.
If a DM wants to add love interests they can add them themselves. They're always gonna upset someone with some lack of something or shoehorned romance so just leave it out and leave it to DMs to add in themselves.
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It's easy enough for the writers of APs to put in characters that can be romance options if the GM and players want that, and are just fun NPCs if they don't.
Your epic fantasy may not include romance. Mine sure does. Stop having badwrongfun!
Nah. I like stuff built in. I like their being options. They take up little space and Paizo doesn't overdo it. Most of the cases talked about in this thread aren't even formal called out as romance options, just NPCs that it's possible to take in that direction.If a DM wants to add love interests they can add them themselves. They're always gonna upset someone with some lack of something or shoehorned romance so just leave it out and leave it to DMs to add in themselves.Because there are never romances in epic fantasy adventures.I don't see why adventure paths need romance options for either men or women. The game isn't about romance. If that's desired I'd rather see third party materials for the subject matter rather than Paizo working on it.
It seems to me this discussion is focusing entirely on the wrong aspects of the game and trying to shoehorn personal desires into a setting based on epic fantasy adventure. Not Romance.
Agreed. Options are useful for those that are interested in romantic or other relationships. I suggested that Paizo expand on it, in fact, in a online PDF of extra material like they used to do with Dragon or Dungeon magazines.
As for "wrong aspects" of the game -- what would that be? As thejeff mentioned, romance comes up in epic fantasy adventure.
There is no One Way.
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I don't see why adventure paths need romance options for either men or women. The game isn't about romance. If that's desired I'd rather see third party materials for the subject matter rather than Paizo working on it.
It seems to me this discussion is focusing entirely on the wrong aspects of the game and trying to shoehorn personal desires into a setting based on epic fantasy adventure. Not Romance.
I guess all my favorite fantasy novels and videogames were wrong then.
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I guess all my favorite fantasy novels and videogames were wrong then.I don't see why adventure paths need romance options for either men or women. The game isn't about romance. If that's desired I'd rather see third party materials for the subject matter rather than Paizo working on it.
It seems to me this discussion is focusing entirely on the wrong aspects of the game and trying to shoehorn personal desires into a setting based on epic fantasy adventure. Not Romance.
I'm pretty sure the anonymous visitor was just trolling.
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I don't want a neverending mass of combat encounters in my APs. Paizo should remove all the monsters except possibly the bosses. If someone want it all in, they can add it themselves. That should free up space for some romance options.
I don't want a neverending mass of combat encounters in my APs. Paizo should remove all the monsters except possibly the bosses. If someone want it all in, they can add it themselves. That should free up space for some romance options.
Pfft - Paizo should remove all the rules and stuff from the APs; just publish them as novels and anyone who wants to play them in the RPG can come up with all of that stuff themselves :P
Nah. Paizo should publish blank books and we can all just write up the entire adventure ourselves.I don't want a neverending mass of combat encounters in my APs. Paizo should remove all the monsters except possibly the bosses. If someone want it all in, they can add it themselves. That should free up space for some romance options.Pfft - Paizo should remove all the rules and stuff from the APs; just publish them as novels and anyone who wants to play them in the RPG can come up with all of that stuff themselves :P
STOP having BadWrongFun!!
Nah. Paizo should publish blank books and we can all just write up the entire adventure ourselves.I don't want a neverending mass of combat encounters in my APs. Paizo should remove all the monsters except possibly the bosses. If someone want it all in, they can add it themselves. That should free up space for some romance options.Pfft - Paizo should remove all the rules and stuff from the APs; just publish them as novels and anyone who wants to play them in the RPG can come up with all of that stuff themselves :P
Although .. blank books with Pathfinder artwork on them would be neat. I have tons of journal-type moleskin books and the like around, some with art would be nice.
STOP having BadWrongFun!!Nah. Paizo should publish blank books and we can all just write up the entire adventure ourselves.I don't want a neverending mass of combat encounters in my APs. Paizo should remove all the monsters except possibly the bosses. If someone want it all in, they can add it themselves. That should free up space for some romance options.Pfft - Paizo should remove all the rules and stuff from the APs; just publish them as novels and anyone who wants to play them in the RPG can come up with all of that stuff themselves :P
NO.
I don't want a neverending mass of combat encounters in my APs. Paizo should remove all the monsters except possibly the bosses. If someone want it all in, they can add it themselves. That should free up space for some romance options.Pfft - Paizo should remove all the rules and stuff from the APs; just publish them as novels and anyone who wants to play them in the RPG can come up with all of that stuff themselves :P
Paizo should publish my book Tentacled Horror From The Beyond, it was written entirely using quotes, lyric and movie lines from Madonna, also i've been sending it to another publisher first to gouge interest, i'm just not sure how sending it to Random Houses is going to get it published..... oh crap....