Dragon disciple Build


Advice


So starting anew campaign and just asking for some advice on a build

20 point buy, pathfinder books only

str 16
dex 12
con 13
int 10
wis 10
cha 16

half orc traits bite endurance

lvl 1 monk maneuver master, monk of four winds
feats imp grapple, toughness

lvl 2 monk maneuver master, monk of four winds
feats imp trip

lvl 3 sorcerer cross blooded
feats arcane strike
bloodlines abyssal dragonic

lvl 4 monk maneuver master, monk of four winds

lvl 5 sorcerer cross blooded
feats defensive combat training

then dragon disciple

the idea of the build is to grapple and not let them out while using the claws and bite. the main concern is the lack of bab in the build.

thx

Liberty's Edge

I'd say that if your focus is to grapple and not let them go, perhaps you should look at dropping that charisma a bit to get higher strength and pump it further at 4. I'm not sure where you dropped your +2 but let's say it's in str and your stat build is actually
14 (+2) racial
12
13
10
10
16
By the time your spell progression really needs charisma you can get a headband. If you want maneuvers to be better (and attacks) flip to this stat build instead
16 (+2) racial 18
12
13
10
10
14
at this point you've lowered your DC's by 1. but you dont use DC's as often as you use maneuvers and strength for damage which have each been increased by one.


I'm not really sure what that 3rd level of monk gets you... fast movement?
I might look into scrapping the monk at that point and start taking a level or two of barbarian. That rage will really help you land your combat maneuvers, as well as any regular attacks (claw, claw, bite, right?), and you lose nothing on the deal. If you dip 2 levels, you'll get uncanny dodge, which is great AND a rage power (I recommend fiend totem for an extra gore attack with the biggest damage die you'll have!)

Also, definitely consider Altus Lucrim's advice in dropping the charisma... you won't even get 2nd level spells until lv.8 anyway. Going with a 13 in charisma will be effectively the same for you, until you can bump it at lv.8, and you can grab a 12 int or wis while you're at it.


Also, consider picking up the Dragon Style feat (you'll automatically qualify at lv.3). You can charge in every time and start with a trip, Then you'll either have a juicy AoO, or they'll be ripe for the grapple+full attack combo.


Don't Barbarian and Monk have alignment exclusivity issues? Ie, you can't multiclass them?


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@ BigDTBone

...Kind of. Basically, you have to shift alignments, and one way is more restrictive than the other. Going from Monk to Barbarian means going from Lawful to Neutral or Chaotic. The consequences are that you can no longer gain levels in monk, and.... That's really it. HOWEVER, going from Barbarian to Monk means shifting from Chaotic or Neutral to Lawful, which is indeed (L)AWFUL, because you lose the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels in barbarian.

The biggest hurdle really is the RP reason for the alignment shift. However, in this case, it's one of the easiest things to do. Once that level of sorcerer hits, the change starts to happen...reality starts to unhinge for the monastic character, and primal urges and powers start to manifest. Hidden depths of the bloodlines, kept dormant for years suddenly rise to the surface.... It's especially thematic as the OP states that he's going crossblooded Abyssal/Draconic. I know that if I started having Demonic/Dragon blood surge through my veins, I might start to get a bit freaked...

Grand Lodge

Just because your not Lawful doesn't mean you can't use the abilities you have already learned...there is also an archetype Martial artist that allows you to be any alignment.

A paladin or a Barbarian that breaks Alignment looses powers

A monk can continue to use his abilities and powers but is unable to Take more levels in monk until atoned and reverts back to Lawful.


@ Fruian Thistlefoot

Exactly.

The only problem that I see would be that the OP wants the Maneuver Master archetype, which is incompatible with Martial Artist.


Third level monk gets him Maneuver Training, the ability to treat his monk level as his base attack for the purposes of maneuvers. Trading that +1 from bab for +2 Str while raging might not be a bad deal since it will increase his damage, saves, and CMD as well, but then he has to track rage and/or fatigue, pick up Raging Vitality, can't cast, and so on.


Ok, I can see the maneuver training being a thing... but why on earth would he want Raging Vitality? He's only going to rage for a few rounds a day, specifically on those rounds using Flurry of Maneuvers... and when doing so, he certainly won't be casting. Also, unless he's planning on doing LOTS of maneuvers in that flurry (more than 1 maneuver, anyway), he'll already get his monk level in place of BAB for the "bonus" maneuver (likely grapple).


Note: I meant "+2 from Str" from raging, of course. Just a reminder that that bonus will be twice as big as well as being more universally applicable.

Raging Vitality has nothing to do with casting -- that's Moment of Clarity. Raging Vitality raises the Con bonus from raging by +2 and allows you to maintain rage while unconscious. Given that getting dropped while raging otherwise means death... pretty good feat. He'll be wanting to spend several rounds at a time raging because once he drops rage, he'll be fatigued... harder to keep someone grappled then unless they're total mooks.

From what I see of his build, the idea would be to substitute a trip attempt into his full attack to make the victim prone, use natural weapons, and then grapple them with the bonus maneuver from flurry. (Grapple last so you can use both claws.) He gets full base attack on the one bonus maneuver he'll be getting from Flurry, but FoM replaces Flurry of Blows, so his trip attempt would be at regular base attack (with the -2 penalty from FoM as well). On subsequent rounds, yes, the only maneuver he'd be doing would be grapple (or pin).

If I'm wrong and the trip attempt and grapple attempts are to happen on different rounds, then he doesn't need the third level of monk and might as well stop at the first. I'd probably switch the second two levels to Unarmed Fighter, take Dragon Style and Improved Grapple as bonus feats.

Or do the barb thing, which has the bonus of spending the first level or two as barbarian, which always rocks.

Liberty's Edge

Alright, I'm coming back to this because I just made a Dragon Disciple for a upcoming AP game and this is what I did. Note: I in NO WAY say that this is the only/best way to do a Dragon Disciple. It is simply what I am doing and why. Prax used to be a dragon but he really made a druid mad. That druid thought that the afterlife of a dragon was almost certainly better than life as a mortal, so he cast reincarnation on him, this has turned the dragon into a Half-Orc.

Spell Selection, just make sure to pick up Acid Damage options for every level and also pick up glitterdust to help out your party.
Alternate Traits: Sacred Tatoo
Traits: Tusked, Fate's Favored.
Str-17; Dex-14; Con-14; Int-8; Wis-10; Cha-14

Lvl 1. Rngr: Track, Wild Empathy, Favored Enemy (Human), Skill Focus (Survival)
Lvl 2. Rngr: Combat Style (Natural Weapons) Aspect of Beast (Claws)
Lvl 3. Sor: Ironhide, Eschew Materials, Bloodline -Draconic (Green)
Lvl 4. Sor: Str +1
Lvl 5. Sor: Draconic Resistances; Dodge
Lvl 6. Dragon Disciple: Nat AC +1 Blood of Dragons
Lvl 7. Dragon Disciple: Power Attack, Arcane Strike Str +2
Lvl 8. Dragon Disciple: Str +1 Breath Weapon
Lvl 9. Dragon Disciple: Str +2, Nat AC +1, Eldritch Heritage(Orc)
Lvl 10. Dragon Disciple: Blindsense, Toughness
Lvl 11. Dragon Disciple: Con +2 Improved Eldritch Heritage (Fearless)
(the choices Above indicate you managed 4k for a Headband of Cha +2)
Lvl 12. Dragon Disciple: Dragon Form 1/day Nat AC +1, Str +1
Lvl 13. Dragon Disciple: Improved Initiative, Int +2, Improved Eldritch Heritage (strength of the Beast)
The above choice gives +2 Strength now and 2 more at level 15.
Lvl 14. Dragon Disciple: Wings
Lvl 15. Dragon Disciple: Blindsense 60, Dragon Form (2/day)

Like I say, this is what I'm doing and I'm doing it because I really like the Natural Armor and Strength. I also like the ability to have constant natural attacks. You do what you want, but this is how I'll be playing it.

Liberty's Edge

2 more levels in Sorcerer after this will grant 2 more strength and Nat AC btw

Grand Lodge

Anyone ever try a Vivisectionist Dragon Disciple build?

Liberty's Edge

Most of the games I play require PFS Rules, as such Vivisectionist is banned, Just my excuse.


I don't mean to derail this, but I'm looking at making a Bloodrager that goes into Dragon Disciple and I"m having a problem with my 1st level feats and traits.

Anyone have any suggestions, he's human by the way.

EDIT
Sorry forgot to mention that this if for PFS. So I have to work with teh fact that as of right now, the Blood of Dragon's ability doesn't stack with the draconic bloodrager bloodline (probably going to take the elemental bloodline).


Talk with your gm about how.its going to work, because a LOT of the class features don't actually stack by raw. I have a fix that I think will work where it advances bloodrager instead of sorcerer bloodline. If it follows RAW you'll be much better off taking an alternate bloodline that will actually stack.


If you take some levels in monk, you should choose empyreal as you second bloodline, so you can cast using WIS (and use it for your AC with Monk!) and dump your CHA to get more points.


I like Dragon Disciple with Abyssal or Orc crossblood to have more Sorc levels, as many as possible. Get faster access to Strength of the Abyss/Strength of the Beast.

In general I think the Orc Bloodline is a bit better than the Abyssal one, for the Power of the Giants ability, but... they're both good.

The Orc perks are pretty good too, and combined with the draconic ones make your evocation spells really truly sting, for the off chance you need to chuck magic about. But... done right, you can get to over 50 Str by the mid teens.


@altus. Been contemplating something similar myself. If you're going to use aspect of the beast to get permanent claws, maybe look at the tattooed sorcerer archetype. You give up your first lvl bloodline for a tattoo familiar, but since you don't need the claw power, this is a pretty damn good trade, imo. Eschew mats is kind of moot, since you can carry a materials pouch anyway.

Liberty's Edge

But you cant use mats from a pouch while you're using form of the Dragon. That's why I like eschew.

Dark Archive

A person could just do five levels of bloodrager and then go into dragon disciple.

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