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I was wondering if anyone's built a witch that focused on delivering touch spells through prehensile hair? I was thinking of maybe doing a 4 Witch/ 1 Rogue/ 1 Sleepless Detective/ 10 Arcane trickster to pull this off. I'll always be targeting touch and the sneak attack damage will keep this build melee effective. The only thing I'm worried about really is keeping my AC up and not getting hit.
PS: Taking a trait to gain mage hand.
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It is a second level witch spell.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Spectral Hand
Yep. When looking through the PRD by spell, those that predate a book don't have a listing for classes that came out in said book (so corebook spells never list what APG classes have them). You're better off looking through by the spell list index.
Frostbite is on the witch list that alone is a good start. I think staying witch all the way is good and selecting patron, feats and stuff mostly to be able to stay close to the combat. Sneek attack is not what is gonna keep you effektive magic is.
IMOP.
Trickery patron to get mirror image pehaps.
If your GM will allow a charged touch attack to be used with a AoO i think you will also want ok dex and combat reflexes.
Witch list have several good spells for touching folks in a bad way.
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Ah, so yeah I was checking the PRD. Sorry about that. Spectral Hand will be a good feat to have.
If I stay witch then there'll be no harm in being a winter witch and going into the prestige class of the same name. The character I'm building is for RoW and its flavorful as hell. I was thinking of using the frostbite - enforcer - rime spell combo.
Though, if I stay full witch another problem will be increasing AC. Maybe Arcane Armor Training, in addition to Mirror Image, will be good investments for this build?
Charged touch attacks with AoOs will most likely fly. As more ideas flow in I'll start building a feat progression. I'm thinking Rime spell will be my first feat.
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I've built something similar using a hexcrafter Magus with a Whip. I used Spellstrike and whip mastery with Frostbite/Rime spell/Enforcer, with the whip serving the function of prehensile hair.
The benefit of winter witch is that you can use Frozen Caress to add another d4 to the damage which adds up.
Since Frostbite will make your SA damage non-lethal, Sap Master becomes an option, but you need a way to make the opponent flat-footed.
This is what you may be looking for. If you look at the Defiler build. Technically not a witch but it is close. You abuse the Hexcrafter magus with a 2 level dip into White-Haired Witch to lay debuffs on the enemy to make everything a joke.
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Sadly, Enforcer doesn't work with Frostbite, due to this line -'Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon'. Frostbite isn't a melee weapon.
That makes me sad.
So 1st level dip into winter witch, gain prehensile hair and unlock the frozen caress hex, then go hex crafter the rest of the way? I won't be able to grapple and construct but that makes for a pretty interesting Gish. If I do two levels of white haired witch though, I'll be able to grapple and constrict as well for added gravy. Though I'm not sure if I want to go the route of that defiler build. Can you gain permanency on a hex?
A White Haired Witch with the elements patron could do this. So the major downside is no hexes. But you have the spell slots of a Universalist Wizard, the amazing version of Prehensile Hair and a familiar & UMD for Improved Familiar shenanigans. Take Magical Lineage for Shocking Grasp and get Intensified Spell at 3rd level to mimic a Magus. Would be a different flavor of Shocking Grasp spammer, not really better just different.
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Sadly, Enforcer doesn't work with Frostbite, due to this line -'Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon'. Frostbite isn't a melee weapon.
Not quite accurate here. Frostbite isn't a weapon but the delivery method is so if you pick up anything that lets you deliver the spell (like spellstrike, prehensile hair, whip, etc) then you have fulfilled the requirements and enforcer works.
A one level dip into Magus, burning a feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip, or just using the prehensile hair hex works.Also don't worry about your AC, your a D6 hd class with terrible combat abilities, AC isn't going to help you. Focus on Miss Changes and concealment like most full Bab classes do. Or better yet just shut the enemy down with Death, slumber hex or summoned meat shields to defend you.
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I was thinking about using the white-haired archetype, but I really like the winter witch stuff.
Would arcane trickster be a bad idea for this build? I do lose out on a major hex but I'm not too worried about it. I think RoW ends around level 17-18 anyways so I won't miss the grand hexes and adding sneak attack damage, however pitiful, wouldn't be the worse thing ever. I could always take a trait that grants mage hand.
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Arcane Trickster isn't a terrible option but it is the exact opposite of what witch builds are all about. Witch's aren't damage based types. They have very little ability or need to do HP damage. They either completely shut down an opponent (Slumber, ice tomb, misfortune) with save or suck/save or die abilities or make everyone else's damage dealing powers work better. Trying to use them as the basis for a damage dealing Trickster is really sub-optimal. Not impossible but just about any other caster class is a better choice.
As I said, if you want to be a blasty "bad touch" type, while maintaining the "witch" feel, I would suggest going with the White Haired Witch dip 2/Hexcrafter magus X.
You abuse spells like frigid touch with Rime Spell to deliver them via yoru hair and perform a grapple and power attack to cornugon smash to intimidate.
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As I said, if you want to be a blasty "bad touch" type, while maintaining the "witch" feel, I would suggest going with the White Haired Witch dip 2/Hexcrafter magus X.
I know about that build, and agree with you completely. I love it actually. The truth is I'm afraid of it being a little too much for my game. Many encounters will be played out in roleplay (we're in a PbP) and we're not super optimized. That build, I feel, should've been called AM MAGUS because its pretty ungodly. If you go to the discussion thread the authors (Mathwei ap Niall included) don't recommend the build for PFS play, which I think also implies they only recommend this build if you're going into a meat grinder.
In truth I may end up playing a watered down version of the defiler because the way our party is shaping up we only have one melee fighter and I really want her to have a flanking buddy.
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For awhile there I almost did rename it to something like that. It is REALLY obnoxious and kinda takes the fun out of it for everyone.
With the new spells and feats that have come out since then i'm frankly terrified with what i could have it do now.
The power creep lately has become rather troubling to be honest.
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I like to go into PFS games like I'm playing Fade from the Codex Alera books. I optimize the hell out of my characters so I am ready if the Otyough food hits the Blade Barrier, but I play below that level and never bring out the big guns unless needed.
For example, in my last scenario, my Tetori only grappled one foe, in the rest of the combats, I used a battle axe or unarmed strikes for non-lethal damage, even though my grapple check is almost double my BAB.
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Yeah, I played a Dawnflower Dervish that could do more dpr at level 7 than our party fighter did at level 10. She was a glass cannon but thanks to crane style, mirror image, and the crane wing-that-was, she never got hit after level 6.
Anywho, it is looking like melee damage is becoming a priority for me after talking to a party member or two. Math, how would you un-optimize your build without compromising its spirit. Like, maybe inflict a subset of the status effects it has going for it. I want to keep that Rime spell frostbite combo.
Maybe only dip one level of witch to get prehensile hair early on, then dip unarmed fighter later to get access to boar style and boar ferocity for pure vanity reasons, I like the idea of slashing hair.
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Easiest way to scale it back is simply don't take the WhW dip.
Giving that up drops the grapple, constrict and intimidate off the build. Doing that drops it from OMGWTFBBQ to simply "that's a nice build".
It's only the dip that lets you really pile on the negatives, without it you can only trip, fatigue and Entangle debuffs on it (With the occasional Blind when you need it).
Quick, clean and easy while still being effective.
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Frostbite isn't a weapon but the delivery method is so if you pick up anything that lets you deliver the spell (like spellstrike, prehensile hair, whip, etc) then you have fulfilled the requirements and enforcer works.
I disagree. Even if you deliver a spell via spellstrike, or spellstoring, it's the spell dealing nonlethal damage, not the melee weapon.
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Was gonna make a new thread, but I guess I"ll post it here. We solved our melee problem and I'm not back in the business of the bad-touch witch. Another interesting combo has presented itself and I was wondering if it would be worth taking the Occult patron for all of the undead related spells. The idea of creating "wights" (for all you Song of Ice and Fire fans) might be fun, but occult is missing the spell you want over any other, animate dead. Maybe pump UMD and get it in a staff?
If you have a single wight and lots of ruthlessness you can use create spawn and make a controller pyramid. That way a single undead controlled by the necromancer(in this case a witch) control Lots of undead. And it also gurantees that when things goes bad it is a catastrophe:)
In short you dont need animate dead, if you are pure Evil and have a few villages or some slaves to make spawn of.