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Good. Now you don't need to run on the back of an elephant to use a lance... :)
I'm not at all sure you are correct that one or the other can decide to not be charging if the other is.
Since it is now officially called a "mounted charge", meaning the mount and rider charge simultaneously, I guess you can just decide not to use that special action, but to have the mount perform a charge and, as the rider, do something else. (since the rider can't move without dismounting first, he definitely won't be able to charge without the mount doing so as well.)
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I'm not at all sure you are correct that one or the other can decide to not be charging if the other is.Since it is now officially called a "mounted charge", meaning the mount and rider charge simultaneously, I guess you can just decide not to use that special action, but to have the mount perform a charge and, as the rider, do something else. (since the rider can't move without dismounting first, he definitely won't be able to charge without the mount doing so as well.)
Except that if both are considered charging. A type of full round action, how are you deciding to not be charging and do something else?
You are either both charging or you are both not. That's what the FAQ is saying.
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The FAQ is saying that:
A mounted charge is a charge made by you and your mount. During a mounted charge, you deal double damage with your first melee attack made with a lance or with any weapon if you have Spirited Charge (or a similar effect), or you deal triple damage with a lance and Spirited Charge.
It doesn't preclude -not- doing a 'mounted charge' where only the mount charges. That is just a charge. It won't allow any of the special benefits listed in the FAQ for 'mounted charge', of course, but the rider can do other things.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Sure it is. In almost every situation, if your mount moves, it is considered a move action by you.
This is strictly false. The only restriction based on your mount's movement is that you can't full-attack with a melee weapon if your mount moves more than 5ft because you have to wait for it to get there. But you can full-attack with a ranged weapon and, to quote the CRB directly, "you can take move actions normally".
I have no idea where you got your idea that your mount's movement counts as a move action by you.
Why then, if your mount charges, would you think you wouldn't be considered charging?
Because:
1) The premise upon which you based this conclusion is false, therefore making the conclusion invalid.2) There is no other situation in the game where you and your mount's actions have to match, except for the thing now called "mounted charge". I can have my mount full-attack while I draw and drink a potion; why can't I have my mount charge while I draw and drink a potion?
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I can't copy and paste from my phone. But you need to reread the mounted combat portion of the combat chapter.
It says you can make ranged attacks and cast spells if your mount moves. Even up to double its speed.
Nowhere does it say you can do this if your mount charges. And this FAQ indicates that both are considered charging.
Second, it SATs your mounts speed is considered your speed.
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I'm not at all sure you are correct that one or the other can decide to not be charging if the other is.
This seems pretty clear that if one charges, both are considered charging.
The developer posted a clarification immediately after announcing the FAQ stating that you do not have to charge when your mount does.
When riding a mount, can you command the mount to charge while you yourself do not charge? If not, well, why not? If yes, do you lose your actions anyway, or can you spend them on doing something else? For example, if I'm riding a war-trained mount, can I not cast a spell on my mount (standard action) and then command the mount to charge after being buffed (or simultaneously while I buff it as the case of turn order may be)?
Of course. The mount is charging, but it is not a mounted charge. In order for you to make a mounted charge (and get things like the bonus for using a lance or the effects of Spirited charge, you must make a mounted charge). The clarification will deal for what is a mounted charge and the effects are.
Well there you go. Guess I was wrong.
I think its ludicrous. I mean have you ever seen a mount charging across a field? I have. But whatever. Guess we can play tiddlywinks in a tornado too, by rule.
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EDIT: Ninja'd.
But you need to reread the mounted combat portion of the combat chapter.
I checked it (and the Ride skill, just in case) right before posting, in fact. That's kind of how I operate.
It says you can make ranged attacks and cast spells if your mount moves. Even up to double its speed.
Nowhere does it say you can do this if your mount charges. And this FAQ indicates that both are considered charging.
You need to read more carefully.
When it talks about double moves and running, it defines penalties to ranged attacks and that you take your attacks halfway through the movement.
Then it says "You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally."
Not "while your mount is making a double move or running" or even "in either case" or some other reference to the previously-specified modes of movement.
It says "while your mount is moving".
That would include any type of movement: single move, double move, charge, run, withdraw, Spring Attack, whatever.
"While your mount is moving".
Is your mount moving? Yes? Then you can make a ranged full-attack, or take move actions normally.
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But whatever. Guess we can play tiddlywinks in a tornado too, by rule.Really?
Yes really.
If you actually think it makes good common sense that during a charge I would have the wherewithal to do much else but charge with the mount, then you've never seen a horse charge.
Thundering gallops aren't real conducive to other actions.
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You seem awfully interested in your real-world experience with animals lately.
Also, I've seen people do acrobatic stunts on running horses, so grab your tiddlywinks and I'll go grab any random mid-level druid and have them literally transform into a tornado for us to play in.
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Running horses is mechanically different to charging horses to reflect the difference in running and charging in real life.
Yeah, and running is actually faster than charging yet still allows you to take actions normally. I'm not sure why you would think a slower pace of riding would make it harder to act normally.
Second, it SATs [sic - "states"?] your mounts speed is considered your speed.
Andrew, just FYI, this is the quote I think you're thinking of - I was remembering it myself and wondering about it:
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.Other than simply being a foundational statement, this brief paragraph does the following:
Honestly - when a player doesn't know the mounted rules backwards and forwards, I have them treat the mount as their move action. Especially if it's not an animal companion (and thus might require a Handle Animal check).
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Running horses is mechanically different to charging horses to reflect the difference in running and charging in real life.Yeah, and running is actually faster than charging yet still allows you to take actions normally. I'm not sure why you would think a slower pace of riding would make it harder to act normally.
Mechanically, charging only appears to be slower than running, because you can only move up to double your speed, instead of 3 to 5 times your speed.
But Charging is an all out sprint.
Mechanically, they only allow up to double your speed, for game mechanics purposes and for just how far a creature could/should be able to move in 6 seconds and still be able to culminate the move in something other than it simply being the end of the round.
Charging is faster than running.
Usually you're taking measure of your opponent as you're charging them. Incorporating an attack into your forward motion, while gauging defenses, will naturally slow you down.
In a sprint, you often tune out your surroundings (even, in game, to the point of losing your Dex bonus). To a degree, you are heedless, and thereby lacking such distractions that might slow you or cause you to pause ever so slightly.
Also, sprinters would be slower if they had to punch a guy at the tape.
(Odds are they'd Bull Rush, but that opens a can of worms.)
This is the way I've always assumed it worked. I've never thought you could vital strike lance charge and get triple vital strike damage. That's just silly, since the charge and vital strike require different types of actions.
Of course it didn't make any sense, but the rules could be read that way, because the mount was charging and the rider only got the modifiers for charging (without actually taking the charge action) and performed an attack action after the mount finished its charge, which qualified for Vital Strike.
Really, power gamers use any loopholes in the rules text to get as much out of it as possible. Luckily, that particular loophole has now been closed.
Contributor
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Good. Now you don't need to run on the back of an elephant to use a lance... :)
Here's a good one for you - if your mount is an elephant (or any other Huge mount), can you even attack small/medium creatures with a lance? If you're seated 15ft up, but the lance is only 10ft...
*ducks and hides before people throw lances at me*
Good. Now you don't need to run on the back of an elephant to use a lance... :)Here's a good one for you - if your mount is an elephant (or any other Huge mount), can you even attack small/medium creatures with a lance? If you're seated 15ft up, but the lance is only 10ft...
*ducks and hides before people throw lances at me*
Yes. You're considered to be in every square that the mount is.
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I'm not at all sure you are correct that one or the other can decide to not be charging if the other is.
This seems pretty clear that if one charges, both are considered charging.
The developer posted a clarification immediately after announcing the FAQ stating that you do not have to charge when your mount does.
When riding a mount, can you command the mount to charge while you yourself do not charge? If not, well, why not? If yes, do you lose your actions anyway, or can you spend them on doing something else? For example, if I'm riding a war-trained mount, can I not cast a spell on my mount (standard action) and then command the mount to charge after being buffed (or simultaneously while I buff it as the case of turn order may be)?
Of course. The mount is charging, but it is not a mounted charge. In order for you to make a mounted charge (and get things like the bonus for using a lance or the effects of Spirited charge, you must make a mounted charge). The clarification will deal for what is a mounted charge and the effects are.
Well there you go. Guess I was wrong.
I think its ludicrous. I mean have you ever seen a mount charging across a field? I have. But whatever. Guess we can play tiddlywinks in a tornado too, by rule.
My exact reaction to the magical darkness rulings. Sometimes the rule gods are not with you. I guess druids can now ride their pouncing cats while casting nukes. At this point with ACs, why not?
When could they not do this?
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Just remember that casting while strapped to a Charging Dire Tiger/Dire Lion/DEX 18 Chainshirt/Shield of Faith bandolier Barkskinned Stegosaurus is violent motion (Concentration 15 + spell level).
And that is what Uncanny Concentration(UM) is for...
You do not need to make concentration checks when affected by vigorous or violent motion or by violent weather.
And one of my sorcerer PCs already took this feat for the other benefit...
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Addressimg the bugbear in the room...
If both you and your mount are considered charging in a "mounted charge"...
Mounted barbarian pounce is back?
The FAQ replaces the third paragraph in the following, but not the second:
With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
The mounted barbarian still gets only one attack.