Best / most powerful cards in the game


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I wanted to get a discussion going on what everyone thought were the most powerful cards in the PACG.

Now to clarify, I'm talking about boons, and not cards that are simply weapons/spells that get stronger and stronger each adventure pack (so not just the latest and greatest weapon, for example). If it's got a legitimately strong ability that's one thing, but just addimg more and more to your combat check while being likely to be overpowered by the next adventure deck is not what I'm talking about.

Here are some of the cards that I think are among the most powerful in the game:

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Restoration - Let's just do this one first, we all know it's going to make my list. Drawing is powerful in any card game, whether decking out can kill you or not, and the PACG is no exception. Even with the looping exploits fixed, this card is just great at helping you dig through decks for what's needed (typically a weapon), granting extra explores, or just giving you more options. And don't forget, you can play it on your friends. Most players who have played a variety of characters will see the value in a larger hand size (up to a point, of course), provided combat checks are rarely failed (good strategizing can minimize this), and Restoration temporatily increases hand size. This card's only three flaws in my opinion are: the user must have divine or it's banished (limiting it to only a few characters); the recharge check is rather difficult; and it takes the place of one of the most card types in your deck, a spell. Even so, this card is crazy good.

Robe of Runes - Putting aside the reveal ability for a second, this item is fantastic for any spellcaster that doesn't make the vast majority of their recharge checks. Good for reusing Restoration, Haste, Damage spells, you get the idea. Lem in particular wants this card for this effect - not only does he tend to have a harder time recharging than most, but often he will want to waive his recharge checks and keep a couple spells in his discard for variety, with the intent to swap out one spell for another with his mending power. Robe allows him to get these back another way. In addition, Robe offers +2 to intelligence, making it a solid item all around for any spellcaster (spells can still make it to the discard even if you're Seoni).

Emerald Codex - Another great loot from AP4, the codex is perhaps the most intersting card in the game, allowering any player to use 3 divine spells a game, or granting a nearly immediate reward of three random spells to go in character decks. I think that this card is best used by burying it, however, as this offers all sorts of benefits. Firstly, there's the obvious - the player using the codex can get a variety of useful spells that may fulfill several needs, such as evading, healing, or drawing (hi, Restoration!). The crazy part about this is that it doesn't take up the player's hand space, and they can't be lost to damage. It can also offer some attack spells to the user, which can even be useful to characters lacking a divine trait. Afterall, Holy Light will kill many undead banes without the caster's help, as it provides the magic trait and 2d12 to back up the player's pathetic d4 divine skill. Lastly, since the spells are banished with use, the Codex can help weed out weak divine spells from the box, such as Mending and Guidance.

Blessing of Abador - It may puzzle you as to why I chose this card here, but it's very simple. While a Lamashtu may seem the more likely choice for a blessing to make this list, I find that most characters have far more trouble with barriers more often than with monsters. This is because of the wide variety of checks that a barrier can force, whereas most monsters' check to defeat is a combat check of varying difficulty. Abador makes even poor dice like d6's a force to be reckoned with when trying to defeat that pesky wisdom check, and it doesn't even bury itself like Lamashtu does. Best of all, it can be used on other players, unlike the other most powerful anti-barrier cards, the Tools variants.

Poog - The first promo, and in my opinion the best ally yet released, this funny little ally offers a lot of flexibility. He has the all-important explore ability that any good ally should have. He can heal your character. And he can recharge to help any character with their combat check by a static 3. Even better, he gives the check the fire trait, an important factor to consider when looking at the banes added by AP 3 & 4.

Haste - Many Arcane players' favorite card, haste is just plain good. While the change location ability is rarely used, the ability to explore again with a probable recharge just makes this card high up on the list of best spells, and cards in general. Most characters with the arcane trait are built to make combat with that trait, and in so doing, they increase their recharge skill simultaneously. When Ezren or Seoni take this, as they are wont to do, it makes their characters tremendously more powerful by offerring them recurring explore power as they both tend to recharge it.

Holy Candle - The interesting thing about this card is that most players are either dying to get their hands on it (sometimes literally), or don't give two... somethings... about it. Many players think the PACG is really easy, and d6 extra turns does nothing for them. Others really appreciate this obvious use for the card and win or lose their scenarios based on the cruel, lone d6. This card has two additional, more subtle effects, however, that should not be over looked. The first one is pretty minor: you can manipulate the top card of the blessings discard pile. This can help with werewolves, copying effects with Blessing of the Gods, and even, with a great deal of luck, provide the ability to recharge non-basic blessings. The other neat thing about the Holy Candle is that it buries itself. Characters, typically spellcasters such as Seoni, that cycle through their entire deck multiple times throughout a scenario may want this card solely for the fact that, once played, it cannot be returned to your character deck until the end of the scenario, even if you get healed somehow. This allows for a better chance of drawing more useful cards, such as attack spells or explore cards, and is particularly powerful early in the adventure when there are often not many items desired by the spellcaster. I know I've played games where, if given the option, I would play with a smaller deck if it meant that I got to exclude items from my deck. Recent adventure decks have changed this (Hello, AP4 loot!) but early on items can be a pain. The fact that the Candle, while thinning your deck out, can provide the group with extra turns to search for loot is just gravy.

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This ended up looking more like a strategy guide for some of my favorite cards, but whatever.

What are some of your guys' favorites? Discuss!


Can't believe you left out Swipe. That is simply an amazing spell any way you slice it. Definitely my favorite Arcane spell.

Mokmurian's Club is downright awesome, too.


csouth154 wrote:
Can't believe you left out Swipe. That is simply an amazing spell any way you slice it. Definitely my favorite Arcane spell.

Swipe, leaving out for a second the help to other players, is just another attack spell in my eyes. Now granted, I love it, it's my favorite divine attack spell yet (I favor Lem and Lini over all the other characters), but that's all it is. I have never used it to acquire something, and i've literally played the spell hundreds of times.

The fact that it can help other players is pretty cool, though, I'll admit. I do love the spell.

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I haven't played much with the Club yet. I don't even remember what it does...


Mok's Club heals one card from your discard back to your deck whenever you defeat a monster with it. Sickness.

As far as Swipe goes, the auto-acquire is pretty damn amazing when you encounter an awesome weapon, item, or armor that would be doomed to the box otherwise. Ezren has acquired several awesome weapons that would otherwise have required way too many blessings for him to attempt the check.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I agree, Swipe is amazing. It's a combination auto acquire, combat assistant, and combat spell. That much versatility is incredible for one spell. It's the same reason I like Poog and Shalelu so much, they both give you plenty of options when playing the card.


I still have no idea why you love Restoration, especially now that it isn't broken. Way too situational with a way too high recharge check for it to crack the top 10 best cards.

Here's my Top 10:

1. Holy Candle--A must have for any large party. So good that Mike has gone on record saying it isn't going to be in S&S (or probably not any future game).

2. Swipe--As stated above, just to add the fact that it is both an Arcane and Divine spell means half the characters in the game can use it by AP4.

3. Scrying--Similar to Swipe, putting stuff on the bottom/top of the deck is what make Augury great from the start, and this one lets you do it from anywhere.

4. Masterwork Tools--2nd best non-Loot item in the game. Defeats pretty much all barriers until AP3 and then it drops down to about 95% of them, and it recharges instead of discards.

5. Emerald Codex--These next 3 are here instead of higher just because we get them so late. A Bury card is much needed as your decks get bigger and bigger without your main card type(s) increasing, and this one becomes 3 Divine spells letting you have a Cure, an Augury, etc while also letting you banish Guidance aka the worst card in the game and other Basic Divine spells.

6. Mokmurian Club--A great weapon that recharges a card from your discard pile? Sign me up please.

7. Robe of Ruins--I am probably overranking this card mainly because if you aren't Ezren, you're using this as a better Toad (recharge vs bury) taking up an Item slot instead of an Ally slot or Token of Remembrance without the matching spell-type requirement. However, none of us have been able to play it yet so I might be proven wrong, and recharging a spell even if you fail the recharge roll is awesome.

8. Lightning Bolt--You get this uber-powerful spell in AP2, and it doesn't get upgraded until AP4. However, Poison Blast has a big drawback that LB doesn't, the undead can't have it used against them.

9. Holy Light--The best Divine-only Spell in the game and it is a Base spell. Though that says more about the dearth of great attack spells for Divine casters than how good Holy Light is. Still a must have for any Divine caster.

10. Impaler of Thorns--A card that is in everyone's deck from AP3 on has to make the list, right? It's a +2 weapon that lets you discard it if you fail the roll the first time.

Somehow missing my list: Staff of Minor Healing, Blessing of Lamashtu, and Major Cure


kysmartman wrote:
I still have no idea why you love Restoration, especially now that it isn't broken. Way too situational with a way too high recharge check for it to crack the top 10 best cards.

I didn't give my top ten, nor were they in any particular order. I was just covering some of my favorites.

And if you want to see how good restoration can be post-errata, try building a character around it. That's not the only way it's good, but it'll help you see its uses. I'd suggest a Lini build that recharges easily, has both items bury themselves, and has a high hand size. Only include one or two major cures in her build and don't acquire cards you don't want (even if they let you explore). As your deck gets smaller through the scenario, she becomes a fantastic support character, healing other players or letting them draw extra cards to explore with. Make sure that she's got an Eagle and pair her with characters that can explore a lot due to high allies/blessings/hastes.

Oh, and my last rebuttal - how on earth is it "too situational?" To be able to grant extra cards to any player on demand (and optionally, so it's not like you're killing them) is fantastic, especially when the caster can heal them as well.

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Of course, some choices are highly dependent on party composition, including character decks. If you don't have many decks in your party that has stuff they want to draw into, and/or your party is a slow, cautious group that only explores once or twice a turn, then that's different. I make nearly all my judgements based on optimal or near optimal layouts.

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I really like Incendiary cloud, too. On top of obviously making combat checks better for the whole turn and working against undead (unlike the toxic cloud) it also grants fire. We're always happy to see an IncinCloud pop up in my group.


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It is too situational in the sense that the # of times in a game where you aren't going to discard those extra cards at the end of the turn are rare, unless you're Harsk who can't recharge it. Yes, spending the first 3 AP's along with the 3 base scenarios constructing a deck specifically for a card that is really hard to get in AP4 due to the dearth of spell locations for 3 or less characters sounds like a good time to me.

Then, you go to the "hey, I can use it on someone else". Yes, but how many times in the game are two characters at the same location AND the other character needs 2 cards? Almost never. And when you have to go "Well, when Lini has a Cat and +4 in her animal power she can auto-recharge it.", you have to ask well what about everyone else? Yep, Kyra has a 1/14 chance (with 2 to her Wisdom skill) and no one else has a chance in hell. That means you're saying the card is great for one character in a specific deck, which just isn't a good card in my book. For the rest of the Divine casters, you're spending a card you won't get back to draw one additional card (since one of those 2 replaces Restoration) to your hand.

Look, I get it. You single-handedly got a card in PACG completely errated. Kudos to you, but that doesn't mean the card is that good. You can keep carrying the torch for it, but that doesn't change the facts of the card. 14 recharge is just too much to make it useful unless it does a ton of damage or lets you pull one specific card out of your deck. Now, if Restoration read "Play this card to name a specific card in your deck and immediately put it into your hand. Recharge Divine 14." THAT would be a worthwhile card.


I don't want this to look like / be just a big debate over one card or between two people, so I'll start with something directly on topic. Who else prefers Abador over Lamashtu? Who feels the other way? Anyone like a different blessing better than either of those?

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kysmartman wrote:

It is too situational in the sense that the # of times in a game where you aren't going to discard those extra cards at the end of the turn are rare, unless you're Harsk who can't recharge it. Yes, spending the first 3 AP's along with the 3 base scenarios constructing a deck specifically for a card that is really hard to get in AP4 due to the dearth of spell locations for 3 or less characters sounds like a good time to me.

Then, you go to the "hey, I can use it on someone else". Yes, but how many times in the game are two characters at the same location AND the other character needs 2 cards? Almost never. And when you have to go "Well, when Lini has a Cat and +4 in her animal power she can auto-recharge it.", you have to ask well what about everyone else? Yep, Kyra has a 1/14 chance (with 2 to her Wisdom skill) and no one else has a chance in hell. That means you're saying the card is great for one character in a specific deck, which just isn't a good card in my book. For the rest of the Divine casters, you're spending a card you won't get back to draw one additional card (since one of those 2 replaces Restoration) to your hand.

Look, I get it. You single-handedly got a card in PACG completely errated. Kudos to you, but that doesn't mean the card is that good. You can keep carrying the torch for it, but that doesn't change the facts of the card. 14 recharge is just too much to make it useful unless it does a ton of damage or lets you pull one specific card out of your deck. Now, if Restoration read "Play this card to name a specific card in your deck and immediately put it into your hand. Recharge Divine 14." THAT would be a worthwhile card.

Woah, tone down the aggression there, bub. I'm entitled to my opinion about which cards are great!

In an attempt to sway others, however, here are some level-headed counter-arguments from me ( I'm not trying to be antagonistic here).

Firstly, I've never had to discard for hand size after playing Restoration post-errata. Ever. This includes the one time I managed to play it four times in the same turn.

Secondly, I'm not suggesting you play through the first four adventures just to build a deck optimized for it. I was suggesting that you skip that, make a deck from scratch and play with it so you could see what I was talking about, and then build it as you please in an actual game. You don't need to optimize your deck to get good use out of restoration, it's just easier to see its power if you do. And my deck that currently gets the most use out of restoration has not changed to accomodate restoration in any way except picking up a cat. Small price to pay.

I find I have characters at my location plenty often enough, especially since, being someone who plays restoration, I'm the healer and the cures all say at your location. I also find that, unless the character is approaching death, players are pretty much always thrilled to be restored.

As to who plays it, I don't even consider Harsk and Seelah as divine casters as they have one spell each. Kyra I'll admit it's probably not good for. But then, I've never concealed my distaste for Kyra, I think she's terrible. But that's a discussion for another thread. Lem I find doesn't particularly care too much about recharging due to his mending power. Over half the time I don't even make my recharge checks, preferring to keep the spells easily accessible in my discard pile. So yes, that's just two characters. So? Even if it was just one, that doesn't mean the card can't be one of the most powerful in the game. If there was a card that said, "If you are Amiri, you may bury this card to close a location. You automatically acquire all of the boons at the end of the scenario," wouldn't that be one of the most powerful cards in the game even though it only works with one character?

And on the last bit. Getting the card errata'd only has relevance here because of the joke I made in the OP. I thought it was a great card before I even thought of any loops. And a card does NOT have to recharge to be good. That makes it better certainly, but you are putting way too much weight in that area, I think.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Orbis Orboros wrote:
This ended up looking more like a strategy guide for some of my favorite cards, but whatever.

Actually, what I would guess it's probably looking like is a "list of cards that Mike, Chad, Vic and the team will want to omit from future Adventure Paths because they're too powerful"...

After all - they've already revealed that this "list" (or at least a conversation about cards 'not to repeat') exists, and that Holy Candle is a contender for that list.


Calthaer wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
This ended up looking more like a strategy guide for some of my favorite cards, but whatever.

Actually, what I would guess it's probably looking like is a "list of cards that Mike, Chad, Vic and the team will want to omit from future Adventure Paths because they're too powerful"...

After all - they've already revealed that this "list" (or at least a conversation about cards 'not to repeat') exists, and that Holy Candle is a contender for that list.

Some of those I might agree with, but not others. I think Haste is almost needed, for instance. Arcane casters are certainly much weaker without it.


"Amulet of Fortitude + 3xPotion of Healing" -DM Sajan


Orbis Orboros wrote:
As to who plays it, I don't even consider Harsk and Seelah as divine casters as they have one spell each. Kyra I'll admit it's probably not good for. But then, I've never concealed my distaste for Kyra, I think she's terrible. But that's a discussion for another thread. Lem I find doesn't particularly care too much about recharging due to his mending power. Over half the time I don't even make my recharge checks, preferring to keep the spells easily accessible in my discard pile.

I'm not sure I would place restoration in the top 5, but I think even you are missing its value with characters you don't like. Restoration is a fab card for Kyra. Why? Kyra doesn't work through cycling. By AP4, you can play Blessing of Sarenae and place it on top of your deck instead of in the discard pile. Kyra's hand swiftly becomes a weapon, three or four blessings, and then one or two cards that I try to move through to reach other draws in my deck. Kyra is a powerhouse who doesn't cycle, instead playing around three blessings a turn without ever discarding a card. She doesn't need to worry that she can't recharge restoration, the card is either a) HUGE asset since you get so little of it b) an additional two blessings you can play with discarding, and you can always pitch restoration to make it a heal in a pinch.

Also, one basic weakness of Kyra is that she generally needs a weapon, but doesn't have it as a favored card, and only has 2-4 of them in her deck. Restoration is a perfect way to dig for that impaler of thorns you need. And the weapon stuff goes just as well for Seelah (who can use her power to hit that recharge check, btw)


Orbis Orboros wrote:
I don't want this to look like / be just a big debate over one card or between two people, so I'll start with something directly on topic. Who else prefers Abador over Lamashtu? Who feels the other way? Anyone like a different blessing better than either of those

I will take the bait. First of all, I think you are wrong on Abador. Barriers are highly situational (as compared to monsters), and the existence of cards like 'Masterwork Tools' blunts the need for such cards. Yes, the tools are going to go out of fashion in the last third of the game, but I still don't find myself wanting to pack a blessing that helps with the relatively rare case that I struggle with a barrier.

Lamashtu is a great card for dealing with enemy's and can help trivialize villain fights. But, as you point out, we have a thousand ways to skin this cat. I don't think either blessing belongs in the top 5.

All of which brings me to another question I have about the value of this list. In the context of restoration, you made the argument that a card that is incredibly powerful for one specific character still merits consideration for this list. If that's the case, I submit that Blessing of Sarenae is the most powerful blessing in the game. I still wouldn't put it in the top 5, but what Kyra can do with that card starting in AP4 is just ridiculous.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Random note: it's Abadar, not Abador.

I like Lamashtu better, but I play with house rules that make combat checks tougher.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

You can't have two Poogs (at least by default), so Father Zantus is almost as good as Poog and does the main thing you want - oneshot Cure.

The detect series (Detect Magic, Augury, Scrying) is really good - scouting in general is awesome. Likewise Spyglass and Magic Spyglass. Shalelu gets honorable mention here since if you don't explore with her, she recharges.

I also have to talk about Sage's Journal - while a 1d4 to defeat a henchman or villain doesn't seem impressive, there's a key trait here: Basic. You can start with it (even if you don't meet the reqs for acquiring). And it's not consumed either.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

One of the great things about Detect Magic and Shalelu is that they can be played outside of the explore part of your turn, since they are not exploring actions, but examine and encounter. So you can play them before you move to another location.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Sage's Journal is indeed a nice card in many a starting deck. Gives you that little boost on the tougher monsters until you can get your thing going.

I like Blessing of Abadar, but I've had bad luck actually finding the masterwork tools so it's been a good substitution for me. Also the ability to play it on other's checks, unlike the tools, is nice.

Augury makes me happy every time I draw it. Haven't gotten a scrying yet.

Fire Sneeze has been pretty solid on my Kyra - either 2d12+x attack, or add to a weapon with an easy recharge.


Orbis, I wasn't trying to be antagonistic towards you. You can love this card all you want to, but you just admitted why it has no business being on a Top 10-15 card list. It's good for one character, and quite honestly, I'd never sit down and play a single scenario with a player that plays a card like Restoration 4 times in a turn. The game takes long enough without one player taking 10 minutes to complete a turn. Again, not a slam on you at all, but that sounds boring as hell to me. Even Mike and Vic mentioned that as being a horrible-sounding idea in that discussion.

Is the card abjectly horrible? No, it just doesn't belong on a Top 10-15 card list. Honestly, the only reason it is a viable card is the lousy job RotR does in providing great spells for Divine casters so Lini needs help digging for her 2 Holy Lights or Swipes so she doesn't kill herself discarding cards for her power. If there was a Lightning Bolt for Divine to throw into her spell list, I doubt she'd really need Restoration.

As for the Blessing comparison, neither one of those is amazing (though as I pointed out in my problems with AP4 thread getting your pick of either one of those for your first of 2 card feats is absurd). I've got a bunch of Abadars only in one party, and it is my 3-character party that has Ezren and Seelah (along with Sajan) for obvious reasons. Lamashtu is really only a Villain killer so has limited usefulness, talking only about its 2nd power. They are good cards to have, but your party will survive well without either one, certainly better than not having the specific blessing that adds a d12 to EVERY check when you play it is.


I'm going to have to heavily agree with kysmartman's Top 10. I'm not going to re-rank them but I'll bring up a couple more cards that could possibly make my top 10 by knocking a few of the lower ones off. Holy Candle is da bomb. Also, I don't have promo cards, so while cards like Poog and Fire Sneeze do look awesome, I have to exclude them since I'll never get them.

And in regards to POWER... later-on cards and LOOT generally SHOULD be more powerful. That should be the natural progression of the game. Therefore I would give "extra points" for cards that come out earlier (and also because I've had more chances to use them) Obviously Mokmurian's Club looks awesome, and I'm sure it will be. But which of us has actually used it? Unless you're rerunning scenarios, none of us! You got it at end of Adv. 4, and are drooling like a troll to use it! Lightning Bolt and Holy Light are heavily utilized and powerful early spells.

Ok, my first additional nomination: the DEATHBANE LIGHT CROSSBOW +1.

Awesome weapon from the character expansion, magic +1... no base weapon proficiency penalty... so any character can fight with it, good base damage (Dex + 1d8 +1). Then if monster is undead, add 1d8 again. If you are weapon proficient, you can use like any ranged weapon to assist combat for 1d4, or 1d8 if monster is undead. Only one in the whole deck, but once I draw it it's NEVER going back. Too many non-proficient characters that you can pass this onto for their main weapon.

Next: Father Zantus. From base set, healing for 1d4+1 from an ally... so can be used by any character, and buries so you get him back after the scenario. Additionally can be recharged for 1d4 on a divine check. Not used as often, but still nice if you are making a tough Divine check to close a location. Finally, has the special distinction of being able to be banished to close the Sandpoint Cathedral. Only would do this in the most DIRE circumstances... but since you can eventually reacquire him, I wouldn't hesitate if it was the difference between winning or losing the scenario.

Finally: Find traps spell. Base set, usable ON anyone encountering a barrier, has a good chance to recharge... adds 2 dice just like Abadar. So while Abadar may be more utile... the easy recharge vs. discard makes it almost as good. I love using it to help open large chests, lockboxes, etc. A character even with an untrained d4 now has a shot with 3d4.

Gotta run but there's 3 additions that I consider quite good.


Wow, I can't believe I left off the DLC+1. That card should have been 5th on my list ahead of the AP4 Loot. Every party that has any Dex-based character or Ezren has to have that card, and it is the best bow in the game even through AP4.

Father Zantus is one I should have put in the honorable mention list. He's an amazing card, but one you might not need. Definitely a must-have for larger parties or parties that don't have a divine caster.

So many cards it is easy to overlook/forget some. Nice catches.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
motrax wrote:
Ok, my first additional nomination: the DEATHBANE LIGHT CROSSBOW +1...Only one in the whole deck, but once I draw it it's NEVER going back.

Funny; I chucked the crossbow sometime in AD4 for Zen Archer Sajan (with three weapons cards feats). Venomous Dagger +2, Frost Longbow +1, and Shock Longbow +1 are his weapons now. Once he gets the option of recharging weapons cards, the Deathbane Light Crossbow +1 looks a bit less appealing, as you can't discard (and recharge for ZA Sajan) the thing to power up the attack.

It's a good card early on - especially in AD2 with all the undead - but I'm not sure it holds up as a late-adventure-path card.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah I'm not crazy over Father Zantus, but maybe that's because I usually play with Kyra in the group, so his bury to heal isn't as good as other options. Maybe in a solo game where you can't really heal he would get more use.

I don't recall what the deathbane crossbow did, but I remember not being too impressed when I encountered it. Our two ranged fighters, Merisiel and (Weapon Master) Valeros had better cards.

For blessings, I noticed Gozreh hasn't been mentioned. I actually really like that blessing, since closing locations has always been one of the toughest parts of the game for me. Maybe that's because with my group's style of play, we almost never automatically close locations from villains. We're usually able to scout out the villain right away, isolate them in a location, then close everywhere else. The problem is, because of the stupid rule that only the active player can close a location they're at, we end up with quite a few really difficult checks involving bad stats (d6 or d4). When Lem's in the group, it's not nearly as useful though.

Liberty's Edge

straight up cure! keeps you in the fight that much longer!


Good, discussion! Sorry for my absence, I'm rarely able to get on during non-working hours.

I'm not trying to make a definitive list, I just wanted to talk about the strong cards, see if others came to the same conclusions and whatnot.

I like Abadar over Masterwork tools simply because it can be used on others. Instead of every player needing to hold on to their own tools, you can just have an Abadar ready on someone for whenever ANY player encounters a barrier.

I don't like Zantus because he's not flexible like Poog. An honestly, Poog's healing is the ability I use the least. He's usually recharged, or used for explores IF the player with him gets healed a lot.

The Deathbane is kind of silly good as it's not had a replacement for it come out yet. It's kind of annoying, actually.

@Birk, good points with Kyra and Restoration. I also finally got around to playing my Lem game this weekend, and even though he only recharges on an 8 on a d8 with a cat in hand in my build, I still like it with him. His mending power works just as well with it as I expected, and I'm looking forward to giving him Robe of Runes to combo.

@Mechalibur: I usually find that locations have such small checks (although often annoying in what type they are) that a standard blessing, aid, or what have you is enough. Although, I haven't acquired a Gozreh. It's the only thing in AP4 I'm interested in that I've been unable to encounter. Well, that and the bear, but I don't mind that so much.

@FY Misanthrope: Why not Major Cure? Just because of the higher recharge?

Liberty's Edge

You can get cure from the get go. And, if you develop spells over the course of the AP, you can get them right away. I like the higher power cures but getting them is random. I'll go for straight availability.


Oops, just saw that I misstyped and said Lem recharges with a d8 in my above post.

I hate that you can't edit after half an hour or whatever it is. :/

fine_young_misanthrope wrote:
You can get cure from the get go. And, if you develop spells over the course of the AP, you can get them right away. I like the higher power cures but getting them is random. I'll go for straight availability.

Ah. I thought you were saying that you thought it was more powerful.

I do love cure and its buddies. I'd rather have cures and less turns with no candle than no cures and the current ruleset.


Mechalibur wrote:
Yeah I'm not crazy over Father Zantus, but maybe that's because I usually play with Kyra in the group, so his bury to heal isn't as good as other options.

I like him as an ally for Kyra. Another card with the Divine trait to fuel her ability.


Vyvyan Basterd wrote:
Mechalibur wrote:
Yeah I'm not crazy over Father Zantus, but maybe that's because I usually play with Kyra in the group, so his bury to heal isn't as good as other options.
I like him as an ally for Kyra. Another card with the Divine trait to fuel her ability.

An interesting point (I'd point out that Poog has the same trait, but I'm assuming we're talking about if Poog's already taken / unavailable).

I still don't think he's flexible enough, in most cases, to warrant inclusion. Especially since Kyra doesn't need healing that much. Or she didn't the few times when I tried her out.

I do think he's solid with the deck burners, posterchild of which is Seoni.

EDIT: Oh, and his stock goes WAY up if you don't have Kyra, Lini, or Lem in your party. Cures rool.


I just got the Wand of Enervation a few sessions ago, and it's pretty mean with Seoni and her card tic to automatically recharge items with the Arcane word.

The Librarian(full name escapes me) is a decent ally too. Recharge for 2d8 on Int checks or recharge to automatically acquire a spell.


Orbis Orboros wrote:
An interesting point (I'd point out that Poog has the same trait, but I'm assuming we're talking about if Poog's already taken / unavailable).

Is there errata adding the Divine trait to Poog? I'd much prefer him, but the card doesn't actually have the Divine trait.


Azten wrote:

I just got the Wand of Enervation a few sessions ago, and it's pretty mean with Seoni and her card tic to automatically recharge items with the Arcane word.

The Librarian(full name escapes me) is a decent ally too. Recharge for 2d8 on Int checks or recharge to automatically acquire a spell.

The Librarian I think is a trap, he's just not needed with Ezren (the guy who appears to want him the most).

Wand of Ennervation on an arcane caster IS amazesauce, though. Good catch, I'd definitely say it's one of the best cards out.

Vyvyan Basterd wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
An interesting point (I'd point out that Poog has the same trait, but I'm assuming we're talking about if Poog's already taken / unavailable).
Is there errata adding the Divine trait to Poog? I'd much prefer him, but the card doesn't actually have the Divine trait.

Oh, whoops!

Like I said, not a Kyra fan. XD


Oh yeah. I actually think Wand of Enervation is way OP in the hands of an Arcane caster.


csouth154 wrote:
Oh yeah. I actually think Wand of Enervation is way OP in the hands of an Arcane caster.

What? +5-8 to any conbat check with an easy recharge is TOTALLY balanced. What are you talking about?

...

Joking aside, it IS a loot, so being a little bonkers is more acceptable.


On the librarian, it's a spell. Really want holy light for Kyra, but you're can't make the Wisdom/Divine check? Recharge him and get it anyway.

We also don't have any Intelligence people in our group and i(Seoni) put two check in Int to help make up for it.


Azten wrote:

On the librarian, it's a spell. Really want holy light for Kyra, but you're can't make the Wisdom/Divine check? Recharge him and get it anyway.

We also don't have any Intelligence people in our group and i(Seoni) put two check in Int to help make up for it.

I generally prefer to go with Irori's, or, better yet, Abadar's (have I mentioned they're my favorite blessing? XD ). If its locations and not barriers, you can go with Gozreh.

And yes, I realize the power, in this case, of 2d8 over 2 dice.

All being said, it IS a solid card. There's just a lot of allies I'd reach for first.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Blessing of Norgorber is also a table favorite. Really helpful for some of the recent boons with really high checks. But the best part is you can automatically squire it by burying a card in your hand. Neat!

The wand of ennervation is just nasty in the hands of Ezren or Seoni when they get to the point of auto recharge. Seoni used it to kill a harpy with her fists after it stopped her from casting spells.


Mechalibur wrote:

Blessing of Norgorber is also a table favorite. Really helpful for some of the recent boons with really high checks. But the best part is you can automatically squire it by burying a card in your hand. Neat!

The wand of ennervation is just nasty in the hands of Ezren or Seoni when they get to the point of auto recharge. Seoni used it to kill a harpy with her fists after it stopped her from casting spells.

Ah, yes, I forgot about Norgorber! That's a great one too.

I also see Seoni/Ezren punch things to death in last ditch situations with the Wand.

Seoni will, at one card remaining in hand, punch an enemy with a recharging wand of E rather than fireball it most of the time.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, the harpy doesn't let Seoni use her power, so wand punch was my only option :P


I know, I meant regardless of target (except villain). If Seoni only has the Wand in hand, she'll recharge it and punch rather than discard and fireball.


The problem with giving those bows to Sajan is that you have to use one of his power feats on Weapon's proficiency. Given that you can't do that until AP3 AND thanks to those annoying Tyrant Trolls (and a couple other AP3 monsters) one of them has to be to give him the Fire trait and giving him as big of a hand-size as possible that limits the opportunities to check that off.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Giving Sajan the fire trait is not by any means necessary - there's more than one way to skin a cat. Two ways I can think of, just off the top of my head, to reduce the "need" for the fire trait feat for him are the Medusa Mask and / or having other spellcasters Augury the decks to scout ahead for him (the latter being a good strategy for anything, all the time). There's also Fiery Weapon and / or Fire Sneeze, and if there are enough players to worry about the trolls, it's unlikely that there won't be several other characters who can field any and all of those options.


kysmartman wrote:
The problem with giving those bows to Sajan is that you have to use one of his power feats on Weapon's proficiency. Given that you can't do that until AP3 AND thanks to those annoying Tyrant Trolls (and a couple other AP3 monsters) one of them has to be to give him the Fire trait and giving him as big of a hand-size as possible that limits the opportunities to check that off.

The light crossbows do not require weapon prof.

Calthaer wrote:
Giving Sajan the fire trait is not by any means necessary - there's more than one way to skin a cat. Two ways I can think of, just off the top of my head, to reduce the "need" for the fire trait feat for him are the Medusa Mask and / or having other spellcasters Augury the decks to scout ahead for him (the latter being a good strategy for anything, all the time). There's also Fiery Weapon and / or Fire Sneeze, and if there are enough players to worry about the trolls, it's unlikely that there won't be several other characters who can field any and all of those options.

There's also Poog, Amulet of Fiery Fists, Incendiary Cloud, Neclace of Fireballs, and Charmed Red Dragon, just off the top of my head.

Poog and Incendiary Cloud are my favorite ways for a party to kill fire needing monsters.


Re-read his post. He gave Sajan two longbows which do require weapons prof. thus my post. That's the best part of the DLC+1 is that it is the Light Crossbow+1 which only appears in AP2 from the start of the game that anyone who picks it up can use with no penalty.

Poog is irrelevant to this entire list because unless you knew how awesome this game was and how Paizo's subscription service works, you will never see that card. So listing it either as an amazing card (it's a promo so it should be awesome) or saying it fixes any problem will do nothing for the 90+% of the people who play the game. This isn't to be harsh as you are right that it solves the Tyrant Troll problem just a bunch of people are going to be going "Who's Poog?".

The other cards you listed can be summed up as Lini/Sajan only, Arcane casters only, ditto, and an AP4 ally you have 3 scenarios to get in an AP that basically says you will get no allies and like it. Lini is hard to give the Amulet to unless you have a large group (she's got 2 Medallions and the Emerald Codex replacing a Staff of Minor Healing) as Item slots are low on the totem pole to give her over Spells, Allies, and Blessings.

Of course, worrying about the Trolls is a waste of time unless you're running 4+ characters as I pointed out in another thread, and you should have an Arcane caster in the group in that case.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kysmartman wrote:
Poog is irrelevant to this entire list because unless you knew how awesome this game was and how Paizo's subscription service works, you will never see that card. So listing it either as an amazing card (it's a promo so it should be awesome) or saying it fixes any problem will do nothing for the 90+% of the people who play the game. This isn't to be harsh as you are right that it solves the Tyrant Troll problem just a bunch of people are going to be going "Who's Poog?".

Huh really? I wasn't a subscriber when I picked up the base set, but the gaming store had Poog as a promo that they gave out to anyone who bought it.

Regardless of whether or not you have it, he's a really good card, so I see no reason not to include him on a list of the best cards just because not everyone has access to him.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

If only Amazon did the same thing. I wish I had a Poog. Which I why I'll be subscribing for Skull & Shackles.


Spells : major cure, mass cure for divine, haste for arcane. Scrying and augury (for our table all the scouting cards tend to be the best)

Items : robe of runes and emerald codex. Staff of minor healing, spyglass, magic spyglass and holy candle

Blessings : abadar and gozreh

Ally : eagle, ilsoari (on Merisiel), zantus, poog,, toad

Trying to be less specific possible so no weap and armor.

Playing in a 6 party players : Kyra, Merisiel, Seoni, Amiri, Lem, Ezren.

Not really the best cards but the cards that in practice (about 100 group (3-6) plays, one loss, no dead) make the game easier.
Easier because maybe only 10% of plays, we randomly encounter the Vilain.

We always play with the 8 locations.


kysmartman wrote:
Re-read his post. He gave Sajan two longbows which do require weapons prof. thus my post. That's the best part of the DLC+1 is that it is the Light Crossbow+1 which only appears in AP2 from the start of the game that anyone who picks it up can use with no penalty.

Ah. I see. We'd just been talking about the DBLC+1 recently, so I misunderstood.

kysmartman wrote:
Poog is irrelevant to this entire list because unless you knew how awesome this game was and how Paizo's subscription service works, you will never see that card. So listing it either as an amazing card (it's a promo so it should be awesome) or saying it fixes any problem will do nothing for the 90+% of the people who play the game. This isn't to be harsh as you are right that it solves the Tyrant Troll problem just a bunch of people are going to be going "Who's Poog?".

While I get your point, I obtained two copies just by purchasing the game twice at my FLGS. And I think 90% is an exageration. None the less, I will include it on my list of top cards because I think it deserves to be there, like I would with Fire Sneeze if I thought it deserved it, even though it's the one promo I don't have. I'll also continue to suggest it for those that DO have it. If you don't, you should be able to realize and just move on.

kysmartman wrote:
The other cards you listed can be summed up as Lini/Sajan only, Arcane casters only, ditto, and an AP4 ally you have 3 scenarios to get in an AP that basically says you will get no allies and like it. Lini is hard to give the Amulet to unless you have a large group (she's got 2 Medallions and the Emerald Codex replacing a Staff of Minor Healing) as Item slots are low on the totem pole to give her over Spells, Allies, and Blessings.

I really disagree with this part. (Please don't take this personally, I'm just discussing.) Besides the fact that I was just listing additional options, I don't know why you think that the two items I listed are for Arcane/Lini/Sajan only. Yes, Necklace of Fireballs can only be recharged with an Arcane caster, but that doesn't make it bad with the others, and Amulet of fiery fists is just a low power weapon that goes in your item slot - there's no reason whatsoever to limit it to just Lini or Sajan.

Finally, I don't know why on earth you must have 2 medallions in Lini's deck or why you're vying for item card feats; I'm not saying that this strategy is bad, per se, but it is definitely not the only, or even best, way to play Lini. I don't take Medallions with Lini and I don't even keep Staff with her for very long if I grab it. I actually had more item slots than I knew what to do with in a two player game until the loot in AP4; I was going around with a Candle and a Luckstone solely because they were alright (we didn't need the candle ever) and buried themselves.


The Necklace is banished if you can't recharge it rendering useless unless you pick it up during that one scenario, which is darn near impossible unless you're Arcane which is the drawback to listing that card on that list. Sure, anyone could use the Amulet, but again, it is only going to be kept in either Lini or Sajan's deck long-term. That Item stack is pretty darn big even with all the Basics I've banished so relying on it popping up in that scenario isn't a worthy bet to make. Take it as a power feat though means it is 100% guaranteed to be there.

As for Lini, you're playing a non-armored character w/o one Medallion? She can recharge it pretty easily by AP3 making it a must-have imho. She's only got two because this is my 3-character party with Amiri and Harsk. My 6-character party with her in it only has the one. That's only one Item card feat btw from her start 2.

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