Defeated Karzoug in the first run at 3rd encounter with cards 2-3 cards left on deck, last combat 40 check was just 40.
You did read the scenario card that stated that Karzoug was only defeated if he was the last card in the deck, right? If you just defeated him like a normal villain, you didn't actually win.
What he said is that, basically, there are types of games that just don't work in the Tabletop format, and PACG is one of them.
It has a possible very short run-time when successful (if they failed miserably they would just ignore it and start over). Also, they wouldn't do the entire campaign or even a full AP because it would take too long. Plus, I'm not sure how many opportunities for the jokes and banter there are which is really what makes Tabletop so much fun to watch (note: I've only played the game solo).
He's also said he's not going to do any deck-builders (makes me said as I'd love to see Marvel Legendary) or really long games (so no Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium, or Eclipse). Of course that was before they decided to go solo and Kickstarted Season 3, so he might change some things around.
My other 6-character party. Surprised that I did as well as I did on the last scenario considering the lack of drawing certain cards. No deaths but several close calls.
Character Name: Amiri
Weapons: Chellan, Sword of Greed, Flaming Icy Axe +1, Flaming Ranseur +3, Greatclub +3, Mokmurian's Club, Runechill Hatchet +2, Shock Greatsword +2
Character Name: Sajan
Weapons: Light Crossbow +1, Returning Throwing Axe +1, Venomous Dagger +2
Character Name: Harsk
Weapons: Force Sling +3, Giantbane Dagger +1, Returning Frost Spear +2, Venomous Dagger +2, Venomous Heavy Crossbow +2
Character Name: Valeros
Weapons: Dancing Scimitar +2, Fanged Falchion, Greatclub +3, Karzoug's Burning Glaive, Runechill Hatchet +2, 2x Shortspear +3
Character Name: Seoni
Character Name: Lem
Weapons: Acidic Sling +3, Giantbane Dagger +1
Honestly, it was pretty clear that the only thing they wanted to accomplish was not to print 6 Death Zone cards that would only be used once. Pretty good call on that. I'd say there have to be those locations existing because unlike the AP5 scenario where you were forced to move once the location was closed, you can stay there at the end of your turn. You're not stuck in limbo.
Yeah, that is one thing I thought about when I first saw the card. All of the other spells (granted I have no idea how Swipe actually does damage just visualizing it) you could see the Villain just take it and shrug it off because it was some elemental bolts, but a spell named Disintegrate by its very nature means the Villain is gone. You don't shrug of being turned to ash after all.
I'd guess that is why it is written specifically to exempt Villains as they are the only ones who have 2 checks to defeat.
This is my 6-character party (I run 2 with Seoni as the only duplicate). This was run-through on BGG for AP6 if you want to read it. No deaths with this group.
Character Name: Seelah
Weapons: Chellan, Sword of Greed, Dancing Scimitar +2, Greatclub +3, Mokmurian's Club, Shock Greatsword +2
Character Name: Merisiel
Weapons: Force Sling +3, Returning Frost Spear +2, 2x Venomous Heavy Crossbow +2
Character Name: Ezren
Weapons: Returning Frost Spear +2
Character Name: Seoni
Character Name: Kyra
Weapons: Fanged Falchion, Flaming Icy Axe +1, Karzoug's Burning Glaive, Shortspear +3
Character Name: Lini
This is my 5-character party (All 5 left out of my 2 3-character parties). No deaths though I had a few close calls early on (Seoni as usual) and several of the AP6 scenarios were close for several of them.
Character Name: Valeros
Weapons: Chellan, Sword of Greed, Dancing Scimitar +2, Flaming Icy Axe +1, Karzoug's Burning Glaive, Mokmurian's Club, Runechill Hatchet, Shock Greatsword +3
Character Name: Merisiel
Weapons: Deathbane Light Crossbow +1, Light Crossbow+1, Returning Frost Spear +2, Venomous Dagger +2
Character Name: Seoni
Character Name: Kyra
Weapons: Fanged Falchion, Flaming Ranseur +3, Greatclub +3, Shock Greatsword +2
Character Name: Lem
Weapons: Force Sling +3, Venomous Heavy Crossbow +2
I don't think there is a weapon in the game that is a "For your combat check roll your Dexterity or Ranged die..." that doesn't have the ranged trait on its card. That means that you can use the Archer or any other ally that says X die to a ranged combat check.
The only time you would use your dexterity die on a combat check and couldn't play one of those is when using Sajan's power.
I just refer to her backstab ability as the daggers because yeah, she's better with the crossbows. This changes for a while once you get the Venomous Daggers since you get that d12 when you recharge it, but once you hit AP5 you want the Acidic Sling and Venomous Heavy Crossbow then Force Sling in AP6. Monsters run from her when she's by herself then. Not to mention picking up her Blessing recharge on Dex checks power ASAP. Erastil(recharged) + Weapon + Recharge a card=easy death for monsters.
My wife and I just finished today. I played the paladin, and she played the druid. I found that magic was much more powerful then the melee as magic characters get their melee and magic. I'm glad I played, so is she.
Uh, wait. You either got to play a weapon that had "For your combat check..." OR an attack spell that had "For your combat check...". You didn't get to play both, which it sounds like you were doing. So Ezren couldn't play Force Missile AND use his quarterstaff on the same check.
So wait, we have a large group that says "Don't add the Add-On if you're not running more than 4 characters (or if you have a small party 2-3)" because it dilutes the loot you get making you weaker as you go through the game, and now we have a group that says adding the Add-On makes it easier because you have several easier banes that get added.
I'd suggest looking at those banes again because there are several that are really hard that get added. Not to mention the fact that you get a ton of extra BotG's which clog your Blessing Deck throughout the game. I'm pretty sure it is pretty well-balanced.
I just wanted to add my thanks as well. Me and my friend Eric have been running a duo through the game and just finished last night. We enjoyed it so much that we almost immediately choose 2 new characters and started again from the beginning. I'm looking forward to Skull and Shackles, not to mention future sets and am very excited for the coming in store play.
I'd suggest choosing 4 characters (2 per person) as you'll get an entirely new experience adding those 2 characters than you got with a 2-player game.
The Acrobat gives you the chance to add 2 to close a location (very helpful in AP5&6, especially if your party is low on wisdom). You get to go from 2 to 4 in getting Items (though the Thief gives you +2 to armor, weapons, and items but you have to go from 2 to 3 to 4). Plus, you only have a 6-card hand with a Thief vs 7 with Acrobat. Doesn't sound like much, but remember, Weapon isn't her favorite card type with only 4 max in the deck.
Really, the +3 or +4 to her combat power isn't that big of a deal. I think I reached +2 on each of them because you're going to dump most of the later power feats into those specialist powers.
So as Ironvein put it, which role really depends on what your party needs.
Yeah, it is still that person's turn no matter how the Tangletooth encounter works, thus that person is the only one that can permanently close a location. No one else can ever permanently close a location on someone else's turn (the swallowtail festival is the only exception in the rare circumstance where you reveal the henchman as the card to acquire/defeat to close it as a temp closing attempt).
Dave Riley wrote:
That goes for about 20 Items in that deck. Of course as awesome as the Items are in AP6, if they were easy to get, it would make the end easy. It certainly did in my 5-character party as the Sihedron Ring and that Ring that is reveal to prevent 4 of any type of non-combat damage are amazing.
Okay, let me rephrase that. If you play intelligently, you will only have to temp close one location, maybe two. Why you wouldn't try incredibly hard to succeed at closing those locations is beyond me. I mean my group of 5 made darn sure to close every single location the first time. You don't want to have to try and temp close multiple locations because what happens if you roll poorly on the location and nail the last person every time to where they have no hand to help close his/her location? You'll have to do it all again. That's a great way to kill multiple characters off in one scenario.
I'd say that it triggers too simply because you're only going to have to temp close one location in that scenario. If it was a regular Villain that you could face multiple times with multiple temp closes per attack, that would be brutal, but since it isn't, I don't consider it a huge deal to do it that way.
You make a good point about the lack of skill points, but the issue has already been fixed in S&S. You'll need more skill points in that game because dumping all your points into 1 or 2 skills will get you killed. In RotR's, you only had to worry about 2 skills (combat and dex/secondary combat in Kyra's case) thus you didn't need a ton of skill points. S&S is not built like that at all (which is good and bad).
I do want to say kudos to everyone. That last scenario was very tense and fulfilling even though I trounced the villain mightily. I say that because I had 3 casters with Augury/Scrying and drew another Augury from the Codex plus 2 Magic Spyglasses and the Quill which all make that scenario much, much, much easier. Not to mention Lem rolling a 9 (off of a d10) on the Staff which added a whopping 14 (9+5) allowing me to not even roll for the 40 check on the villain (that 14+Val's +2+Lem's +2+Meri's Dex+3+discarding the acidic sling for 6 or 7 dice+2 Buried Lamashtu's for 5 dice+Seoni's succesfull Swipe+3+2 dice from the Runeforge Weapon). That probably wasn't everything but I had like 25 to the base before counting up the dice. Merisiel smashed him up real well.
I doubt my 3 character group that has Harsk, Amiri, and Lini will do nearly as well, especially as Harsk is pretty well useless in that scenario.
Though I will finish with one thought. I found it really odd that the villain at the end had no combat immunity. Sure, the casting potential immunity can be really brutal, but not having to worry about discarding your weapon because he's immune to its effect was really big.
Oh, and Seoni checking that one power that lets her reduce 1 fire then one more tick mark to reduce 1 electricity damage is AMAZING. I had to get lucky with her and pull that AP6 ring that reveal to reduce all types of damage by 4 in the first scenario or she probably would have been very close to death.
And Seoni quietly taps her foot while conjuring a large fireball to hurl at the development team.
She's going to be doing nothing but stacking her hand with Blessings and Scrying along with the Necklace of Fireballs because it is completely worthless for her to explore (unless someone has stacked the deck with a Scrying/Augury, a spyglass, or Harsk's ability) as it will be an auto-handwipe against him. At least there's no time limit in that scenario, and any attack spells can be used to bury.
Yeah, you should have 8 Wardens of Runes. The only one you get 6 of are the Leng Spiders, you only have max 6 locations in that scenario so no biggie. If you're missing 2 of them completely, contact Paizo. I'm betting you put them into the wrong section of the box, probably Monster. Lord knows I've done that with a couple of them.
Yeah, you're right Sign of Wrath would let you evade it. Now I'm really thinking it should have unevadeable on it. I mean you're really not supposed to let crazy not-exactly Cthulhu roam free in this world while still being heroes.
Now I'm waiting for Mike to come on here and go "We're adding this text to that Villain card: If you evade it, you must immediately play a game of Arkham Horror or Eldritch Horror and win the game or you lose the scenario." :p
I do have one question. Since the wording of the location means that The Thing From Beyond Time (which is definitely not Cthulhu) only comes out when the counters are gone aka once, if Meri evades it, it is gone forever, right, since it is a summoned monster?
It doesn't have unevadeable on it which I think is an oversight. It has Mental protection so no one else can evade it, but Meri doesn't have that requirement for her power. Maybe Meri spent time in Arkham, Mass from 1915-1925?
You win a prize! I was testing people and definitely not committing a brainfart. :( I realized that a few hours after posting.
The only thing I'd say to that is do you really want to go back and try to get a loot piece from previous AP's that you didn't want the first time? I mean other than foolishly banishing the Emerald Codex, why would you pick loot? I get your point, but I'd rule that you can't pick loot you haven't encountered yet, so no AP6 loot, since that's pretty much how the loot works in the game.
There is one unintended effect that might need to be addressed for S3. With 1's and 2's being 0's instead of their actual number, you can't actually fail the roll on the Charmed Red Dragon--when you recharge him to add 5 to a combat roll you roll a d12 and if it is a 1 you banish him back to the box. But you can't roll a 1 because it automatically becomes a 0.
And vagabondriot, I see you completely blanked on the 2nd half of the Leng Spiders. They have a charisma/diplomacy 16 check to defeat OR that combat check. Seoni and Lem are much more suited to that check and not worrying about the spell check. It took me killing one of those things to realize that. The scenario went a lot better after that, though having Lini will be a great help.
Okay, I'm trying to setup the 2nd scenario of AP6, and I just need some clarification on how the location effect works.
The "At This Location" effect says "The difficulty to defeat banes is increased by 5". Sounds straightforward, right? The problem is that is also on the flip side aka after it is closed too. Does this mean that it is supposed to apply to all the locations throughout the scenario? I mean there will never be a bane at that location once it is closed. If that is the location that triggers the Villain to show up, you don't get a chance to close location. Basically, why is it printed on the closed side of the location?
The Villain starts off the board and only appears once you defeat the # of henchmen equal to characters playing.
It's a Strength/Melee 14 check to close so call Val or Amiri or pray a lot.
Yeah, that's the best version of the Blessing power in the game. Amiri has it with Gorum, and Seoni has it with Pharasma. That power means that anytime you play it on anyone's check they get a d12 instead of their normal die. That helps tremendously later in the game as a d12 is way, way better than a d4 or d6, and is amazing if you're playing with Kyra/Seelah (d6/d8 combat) or Lem/Lini (d10 casting spells).
2nd best Blessing Power is the Recharge Blessing X or put it on top/shuffle it into your deck that Kyra and Seelah have.
Yeah, I was going to say just add them to that list because they really, really suck. Those 3 are easily the most hated monsters in the game. Even the tough AP5 and 6 monsters aren't that annoying. Tough, yes. Annoying, no.
Yeah, but before you even get there, you have to defeat the Villain in S2. That scenario should be called Death by a Thousand Cuts. Let's just say that my party of Val, Seoni, Kyra, and Lem are casting aspersions on Meri because I'm terrified they are going to die while Meri just whistles around.
And no Razorwindsg, there was no tweaking going on as AP6 was printed a year ago (they've said that S&S got sent to the printers about a month ago fwiw). However, you can see the seeds planted that bloomed in S&S in this AP.
This is why there are cards in the game that state "If X happens (like failing a combat check), immediately reset your hand and end your turn". That prevents you from Curing someone who is going to die. That said, yeah you can only Cure someone at your location, and if you only have 2 cards in your deck and need to draw 3+, it doesn't matter what those 2 cards are because you're dead.
Just got my box in and sleeved everything so I wanted to share some impressions without being too spoilery about it.
Impression 1: You may need to change your pants after looking at the Banes, especially if you have a group of mage-casters. So, if you've been whining that the game is too easy, this pack is for you. It wouldn't shock me that you won't have much down time between this and S&S because losses are highly likely now.
Impression 2: All of us that have been bashing armor as useless, yeah ignore us.
Impression 3: You will get a sneak peak at how S&S will work as a few things that are very prevalent there appear for the first time here.
Impression 4: OMG the BOONS!!!! There isn't a useless one in the bunch. There are a couple of spells that are slightly iffy, but still very, very solid cards.
Impression 5: You will do a lot of cursing about all those Items that aren't Basic/Elite aka banishable. The new Items are amazing, and you will want them all.
Wow, I just wish there was a sequel that continued on with RotR because the good stuff is just sooooo good.
The steps would be Defeat him, Put him at the bottom of the deck, Roll to close the location. So, he's in the deck when you close the location meaning he's gone with all the other cards there. You have to finish the encounter completely before moving on to the next step, and his ability is part of that encounter which is why that triggers before the closing roll.
Okay, everything you've listed can be broken up into two groups
Let's do #1 first.
1. Yes, they should do the Henchman thing. Absolutely. You know why they won't? That's a very good percentage of each AP meaning you'd be getting way less cards for the same price, or more likely, they'd have to drop the price. Those cards cost almost nothing to print meaning they'd lose a huge chunk of revenue while saving practically nothing. That's a dumb business idea. Excluding that, there is one practical reason not to do that. Some people aren't going to sleeve their game, and those cards are going to get marked up something awful pretty quickly which is really, really annoying to the players.
Armor is going to be more useful in S&S as they've addressed the difficulty of the game (Vic and Mike have said this several times). And yes, there are others on here that love or at least like armor.
They did miss on some of the roles, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. You're not going to get to pick every single power anyway. So, if some of the powers on that role card are great/good, that is plenty good enough anyway. The only character that got hosed on powers is Kyra, and that is simply because there aren't that many non-Basic/non-Elite Undead in the game. Combine that with the lack of Outsiders (all this pre-AP6 btw), and she's left with the recharge/put on top her one Blessing (one of the best abilities in the game) and her heal power which is party dependent (useful in groups 3 or smaller less in larger parties). So again, the power is pretty darn good just not particularly useful in the game.
2. You misunderstand some of the powers. Getting a weapons or armor feat is a GREAT thing for Lini. Why? Later on as her animal ability picks up steam, she can pick up a lot of either of those. You forgot that she gets a D10, not a d4 or d6, when she discards another card meaning her bear form can do lots of damage with a good weapon. An armor proficiency means that any armor she gets will be buried instead of banished if she fails a roll miserably. That keeps the armor around for someone else to take when rebuilding their characters. Remember, she can use Swipe too which gives her that weapon or armor with no check, and as mentioned if it is magic light armor, she can recharge it at the end of turn giving her a free health point. Lastly, if it is a bow, she can discard it to bump up another person's combat check with WP checked. Sometimes that makes all the difference.
Harsk is where you really missed the mark. You're going to boost his Wisdom stat. Why? That's because he has Survival AND Perception which are highly prized because so few people have either. He's a deck-cycling machine helping everyone else's combat checks, and that spell slot is going to most likely be a Cure or Augury which won't be terrible to recharge as he's probably going to be a +3, and you know what? He holds lots of Items which makes him perfect to give a Staff of Minor Healing which will give it back to you very soon anyway if you fail the recharge check.
Again, who cares that Lini's Blessing power is lame? You're going to be too busy using her power feats on other things. Plus, she's already the most overpowered character in the game. If you gave her a better Blessing power, she'd be a joke because she'd be sooooo overpowered rendering her a must-have for every party.
Not every single thing you stumble upon during the game should be useful 100% of the time. That would be bad game design because then the game would be way, way, way too easy. Potions can't be granted a special slot because your entire deck is your life, which counter-balances the first statement. There are times you'll gladly pick up some useless thing because it could be the difference between living and dying. In RPG's, you have a backpack and potion belt (which is mainly a streamlining feature not as a thing you'd expect to have on an adventure). In PACG, you don't need that streamlining as essentially your hand IS your belt.
Oh, and why in the world wouldn't you just shuffle all of those Major Cure cards at once? There's no functional difference between how it is written on the card and doing it that way. Plus, it keeps the game moving faster which is a plus. I'd say it is written that way because otherwise it would be 1d4+2, which isn't the point of the card, or it would have to be split into a casting it on others and casting it on yourself sections which is too many words.
Most poisons aren't corrosive so why would you expect them to damage the weapon, especially with a crossbow where the poison is on the bolt, not the bow itself? The best way to view that particular example is that the poison interferes with the magic that is animating them, and that is why they die from it. An undead thing has nothing for the poison to react with which is why it isn't effective, and in the game, that is what is doing the damage (why a bolt from a crossbow wouldn't do something to a zombie is beyond me but these are the rules of this game).
The spells had to be given errata because you couldn't play them otherwise. I mean yeah, Ezren and Lem have a weapon, but are you really happy if you ever have to use them? Poor Seoni has no default weapon slot and you're going to want her first 3 card feats to be spells to make her almost impossible to kill, unless playing her solo. This takes the obvious choice of taking another attack spell over a card you'd never get to play and turned that into an actual choice.
As for why the other stuff was done that way, I'd love to know that too though I like Hawk's post a lot.
That was from Tim at GreyElephant Gaming. They had to take down their RC play-through because of several key rules errors, and he posted on FB that he had to download the 20-page FAQ from BGG to make sure he knew all of the rules and correct interpretations thereof.
Orbis Orboros wrote:
Ah, I got a little confused. The OP was talking about how great Holy Light was compared to Summon Monster. Honestly, the only difference in attack with Swipe vs Inflict is that +3 as both are (for Divine casters) Divine die + 1D8 +3 (with Swipe). Swipe is only 2 cards too. Seriously, Divine casters are really lacking in attack spells.
I honestly don't get it. Throwing out a huge number like that is immediately invalidated by "counting Blessings of the Gods". There are so few cards that actually need errata written down. BotG's just needs to be remembered "Hey, I can't ever recharge it from the Blessings deck power." Simple. "Ambush is automatically banished when encountered." Yep. A couple of cards need a quick mark on them to fix the Basic, Elite, and non of both. Quick and easy.
There are really so very few cards that need those inserts. Just think of them as one quarter of a page of a rulebook that you need to memorize. For all the crap this game has taken on this very issue, I was shocked that a revered game like Robinson Crusoe has a TWENTY PAGE FAQ!!! Seriously, that blew my mind. So having 10 or so cards that need something to keep track of the errata isn't that big of a deal that tons and tons of people have complained about.