Ok... you now you need to completely wall over your city to deal with level A WYVERN/CHIMERA/DRAGON/WIZARD/DRAKE/GRIFFON/ARROWHAWK/AIR ELEMENTAL/GIANT BAT/ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN FLY. I picked that as an extremely low level example. At 7th, you now have a horde of Bloody Skeletons in your city. At 9th, you now have to deal with Lesser Planar Binding. Sure your city that has hippogriffs and what not is safe from random level 5 Wizards. It's still quite screwed a few levels down the line.
Fixed that for you.
Which simply reiterates my point...the problem is FLIGHT, not Anti-Magic, and so a completely different argument.
In my campaign, Stillflight fields which totally suppress all non-natural flight are in effect over virtually every settlement of every size, just to deal with this problem. Birds and bugs can fly in, but even shapechanged or gaseous creatures find themselves forced to the ground and unable to enter. Furthermore, elemental magic makes the ground unburrowable/glidable for subterranean approaches.
I'd also like to point out that cutting back the forests for a mile for long fields of vision, ballista, crossbows and longbows for attacking range, and cheap sentry posts that grant Detect Invisibility and/or low-light vision will do wonders for protection from predatory fliers.
I'd also like to point out that a cast Fly spell doesn't last very long. Generally speaking, that wizard's fly spell can't outrun a horse, and all someone has to do is follow him until he's forced to the ground, then kill him. You can only move 1200' feat with a double move a minute on a fly spell...that's not going to get you very far when vengeful people with missile weapons are tracking you.
You also make a great target for familiars with touch spells and flying animal companions.
So, there are alternatives that aren't high level...and this trick doesn't work until you're high level, at which point people either have high level defenses or You WIn Regardless.
==Aelryinth
Just wanna point out if you can cast Fly you can cast Invisibility.
Pretty hard to track that.
We form a line of buckets. Basic organisational skills for the win!This is somewhat of a given if you're talking a real volcano, which can take a while to reach you.
Not if someone is dropping buckets of lava in the middle of your town directly.
You're essentially dropping napalm on the AMF town from the air, and this isn't Minecraft where Water spreads instantaneously and takes out all Lava nearby.
Hell, you could just drop the first batch of lava on top of the well and then laugh all the way to the town destruction.
2 Things here.
1) he has to do this out of range of the wall guards. Fly doesn't give you a lot of leeway, especially for getting away. You can't outrun a squad of angry soldiers on horses below you, for instance.
2) he's got to carry all those things. he's level 5, that's 10 cubic feet of rock. Even shrunken the weight is going to add up.
3) He drops the first rock, he loses his invisibility. Generally a prelude to a bunch of arrows getting stuck in him.
3b) One dispel magic, and he's dead and covered in molten lava. Cue flaming descent.
4) People have been chucking burning things at fortifications for millennia. SOmehow, the whole world hasn't been burnt down.
5) He's going to be identified, tracked down, and killed for a stupid trick because he thought magic was the o0ber. He's thoughtfully leaving all sorts of stuff behind at the scenes of the crime to help magically identify him, too! He'll have his moment of instruction for all the other up and coming 5th level mages, who'll decide they have better things to do with their time, no doubt.
==Aelryinth
Just wanna point out if you can cast Fly you can cast Invisibility.
Pretty hard to track that.
Which also lasts 1 min/level, you lose it the instant you attack, is countered by a much longer duration divination spell, or by having someone with a trained bat or faerie fire spell handy.
C'mon, invis is no blanket defense. People who are smart enough to put up a blanket AM field aren't going to be bolloxed by a level 2 spell.
==Aelryinth
1. Dropping rocks is not an attack. No invisibility lost.
2. Dispel Magic from where? The antimagic field city? Against what? The invisible guy, who used his move action *after* dropping the lava?
3. Yes, and burning fires have all worked quite well for centuries. Pitch early on and Napalm later.
4. Identified? Again... how.
5. This gets infinitely worse for the town as the mage recruits other mages and/or levels up.
2.) Weight shouldn't be an issue, Ant Haul, Muleback Cords, etc. are something most casters with low Str should get ASAP.
4.) Burning things, yes, things as hot as lava, no. You can't tell me dropping a bunch of napalm on a castle wouldn't be devastating.
5.) Who's tracking him down? And with what? If your argument is "Well, but an even higher level caster can...", it's not a particularly convincing one.
1/3 are valid points, though I don't know why you have to outrun the horses precisely when you can just turn invisible and fly away. They won't be able to find you.
1. Dropping rocks is not an attack. No invisibility lost.
Errr...no. Anything that can be construed as a hostile act against a creature or structure is considered an attack. The ONLY things you can do without breaking Invisibility are cast non-harmful spells and move.
2.) Weight shouldn't be an issue, Ant Haul, Muleback Cords, etc. are something most casters with low Str should get ASAP.
4.) Burning things, yes, things as hot as lava, no. You can't tell me dropping a bunch of napalm on a castle wouldn't be devastating.
5.) Who's tracking him down? And with what? If your argument is "Well, but an even higher level caster can...", it's not a particularly convincing one.
1/3 are valid points, though I don't know why you have to outrun the horses precisely when you can just turn invisible and fly away. They won't be able to find you.
1. Dropping rocks is not an attack. No invisibility lost.Errr...no. Anything that can be construed as a hostile act against a creature or structure is considered an attack. The ONLY things you can do without breaking Invisibility are cast non-harmful spells and move.
Actually going to have to disagree with you on invisibility. Specifically for the following reasons:
1. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.
and specifically denying structures,
2. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack.
and with examples provided by;
3. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth.
Not sure how you could interpret dropping lava/rocks as an attack.
2.) Weight shouldn't be an issue, Ant Haul, Muleback Cords, etc. are something most casters with low Str should get ASAP.
4.) Burning things, yes, things as hot as lava, no. You can't tell me dropping a bunch of napalm on a castle wouldn't be devastating.
5.) Who's tracking him down? And with what? If your argument is "Well, but an even higher level caster can...", it's not a particularly convincing one.
1/3 are valid points, though I don't know why you have to outrun the horses precisely when you can just turn invisible and fly away. They won't be able to find you.
1. Dropping rocks is not an attack. No invisibility lost.Errr...no. Anything that can be construed as a hostile act against a creature or structure is considered an attack. The ONLY things you can do without breaking Invisibility are cast non-harmful spells and move.Actually going to have to disagree with you on invisibility. Specifically for the following reasons:
1. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.
and specifically denying structures,
2. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack.
and with examples provided by;
3. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth.
Not sure how you could interpret dropping lava/rocks as an attack.
You're not causing harm indirectly here, however. You're directly dropping rocks on people.
You are essentially attacking with a weapon, even though that weapon is pretty much an improvised weapon that is a save or die effect.
I can see your interpretation for just dropping them on buildings (never noticed that bit about unattended objects, though are occupied residences really unattended anyway?), but as soon as someone is directly harmed by you dropping your lava...
Ok... so put them in a box... and remove the bottom. You are now "opening a portcullis to release attack dogs (attack lava!) and/or triggering a trap".
No...no you're not.
It's not a trap. It's not a living creature you've released to indiscriminately attack.
It's a weapon (in this case, an improvised weapon that drops lava on people) that you're attacking with.
You know what... this is getting off point. The point is antimagic isn't going to help against a caster and is generally a bad idea.
It helps a bit, it's just not an auto-win.
I think it's telling that the simpler option (send some people to murder his ass) has a higher chance of success.
Why waste a 6th/8th level spell slot (and hire a caster high enough level to cast that in the first place, or spend ALL THE DOSH to make an item of it) when you can have a squad of horsemen archers with See Invisibility cast vs your level 5 caster?
It helps a bit, it's just not an auto-win.
I think it's telling that the simpler option (send some people to murder his ass) has a higher chance of success.
Why waste a 6th/8th level spell slot when you can have a squad of horsemen archers with See Invisibility cast vs your level 5 caster?
There we go.
Targeting a structure is an area with a foe in it. You're trying to play targeting shenanigans. That's like saying I'm going to nuke Tehran, it's just a city. The fact there are people in it is irrelevant, if they get hurt it wasn't because I launched a nuke at them.
2, you can't know if you're going to hit a person or not when you drop it. You are most certainly attacking something. Dropping something is no different then throwing it as far as going after a target, and a structure 100% qualifies as an AoE.
===
Rynjin,
already went over how invisibility can be foiled. Plus the fact he loses it.
He's going to flee outside the AM field. Detect Invisibility lasts for turns, and has no range limit. Likewise, faerie fire to spotlight him, or a familiar or animal companion, maybe ALSO invisible to track him. Come on, be smart. You put up an AM field over an entire settlement. How would you take out some idiot thinking invisibility is going to protect him? Awakened bats for aerial security might do the trick.
Dropping molten rock on something made of rock might do less harm then you think. Most rock has a much higher melting point then lava, and the lava will cool quickly. Now, drop it on a wooden structure, you might have a point.
And already noted you can exclude specific areas from the AM Field, like the aforementioned sentry towers.
And remember, he's got to do all this inside five minutes. A fly spell only moves 1200' a minute. He's got to go invisible outside the AMF, probably in an area of open visibility so far enough away he doesn't attract attention; climb to an altitude above the AMF at half speed; move over his target (3 minutes gone at least by now); drop his rocks; and then he has two minutes before his fly spell goes, and wasting a round to recast his invisibility, on top of it. Two minutes and 2400' later, he hits the ground and is limited to ground movement, and has to not be seen as he runs for it.
In the meantime, gobs of lava that he personally cast spells on are all over the place, ideal components for scrying or divination spells to find out who did this, at which point the manhunt begins. And any town that can afford an AMF spell can afford to do such.
Like I said, he's a moment of instruction for aspiring wizards on how NOT to let arrogance overcome intellect.
==Aelryinth
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And I'm just sitting here wondering why a level 5 Wizard would choose to attack a town that large by himself in the first place. This whole scenario makes no sense from either perspective.
An AMF is hella expensive, and we should be discussing a caster of sufficient level to cast one of his own vs a town with enough wealth to plop those everywhere.
Why don't we see everyone with weapons enchanted with anti-magic Field?
No indoor plumbing. Less work be adept (prestidigitation) than water-carrier.
You know, I just had the strangest thought.
The fighter is the only class that has 20+ stat requirements as part of his CLASS FEATURES...and not even for his primary stat.
Worse yet, this stat requirement goes up the lighter his armor is.
You're a 12th level fighter with full plate on. What's your Dex req to use Armor Training III?
YOu need an 18 Dex. If you don't have it, no AT for you!!!
What if you're wearing a Mithral BP?
You need a 22 Dex to qualify for Armor Training I!!! to use AT 3, you need a 26 Dex!
If you get absolutely the worst kind of armor, adamantium non-celestial full plate that doesn't stack with your level 19 capstone, you need a 20 Dex to qualify for AT 4. If you instead take Mithral Celestial Mail, you need, uh, a 32 Dex to qualify for AT 1, and a 38 Dex for AT 4.
Them's some pretty high pre-reqs, and they ain't even feats. I guess they just don't want fighters using Armor Training! Unless they are Vikings or something.
==Aelryinth
You know what... this is getting off point. The point is antimagic isn't going to help against a caster and is generally a bad idea.
Um, no.
The point is anti-magic helps loads against casters and those reliant on magic, and doesn't help much at all against things that don't rely on either.
Like fliers and other things that don't enter an AMF, or magical beasts with monster stats that don't need magic.
PC's, of course, DO rely on magic. So it shouldn't be trotted out unless there's a very specific reason.
==Aelryinth
Except of course for the all ways casters can get around an antimagic field. And that it screws the defenders against the caster by removing their potential magical defenses. Really Antimagic field is a terrible terrible idea. (And you can explicitly attack structures while invisible, individuals inside be damned. Hell bring an trap with you and you can activate it no problem without removing invisiblilty. I'm sorry it doesn't work the way you want but, RAW is RAW man.)
And I'm just sitting here wondering why a level 5 Wizard would choose to attack a town that large by himself in the first place. This whole scenario makes no sense from either perspective.
An AMF is hella expensive, and we should be discussing a caster of sufficient level to cast one of his own vs a town with enough wealth to plop those everywhere.
My point was largely that putting up an antimagic field around your city is going to render you very vulnerable to magic, so much so that even a Wizard 5 who is invisible and flying can cause much more damage then if you just didn't have the field and relied on magic buffs.
...You know, a legendary artifact sword that carried its own antimagic field or similar effect could be a fun toy to center a campaign plot around.
I agree.
Maybe a Sarevok like villain beating the bajeezus out of wizard guilds.
Wizards become the princesses in need of saving.
Anzyr, there's a huge difference between dropping something on the floor and dropping something on a building that will set it and anyone inside on fire AND crush anything that happens to be below it.
Those ARE the rules. You're 'throwing' the lava at buildings by letting gravity do the work, but it's 100% an attack, both figuratively and literally. Your trying to mince around it by comparing it to dropping a marble on the ground isn't going to work.
And the biggest problem with your argument is the fact your wizard is attacking a standard anti-magic shell outside with a way around it. An antimagic shell on a fighter charging you you're going to have to find a much more complex way around...and it's far more likely you're just going to die.
A city-wide AMF is NOT a statement of the usefulness of the AMF from a combat tactical standpoint. Trying to do so is very silly, to say the least.
==Aelryinth
Erm, how does the Fighter reach the flying Wizard while in an AMF?
Erm, how does the Fighter reach the flying Wizard while in an AMF?
Natural flying speed. What? there are a lot of crazyness in this thread, let add one.
Please read the rules to quote:
"Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack."
Heck as we can see in point 3, a wizard could activate a trap that shot arrows at people without breaking invisibility to quote:
"Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth."
Just because the Wizard is causing harm (and quite a bit of it) of meaningless. Seriously, if you have a valid argument please make it, but don't bring nonsense into the discussion.
To address your other point:
An antimagic shell on a Fighter means he can't fly, unless he is a very specific race, or is riding a mount that can fly. In the latter case the Fighters mount is easy pickings for a Wizard and the Fighter is going have a short time to reflect on what a bad idea that was as he falls.
To address a fighter that belongs to a race with (Ex) Flight, said Fighter is going to have to contend with animated/called/created minions to even get at the Wizard and do so with none of his magical enhancements. This is a terrible idea for the Fighter.
And of course this is all before Wizards become flat out immune to Antimagic Field. I always know the minute someone brings up antimagic field as a way to fight wizards that they have no idea what their talking about. Its a nice litmus test of system mastery, but that's all antimagic field is.
If you canot fly I also like the option of hamatula strike and a harpoon. Scorpion for the win.
Just because the Wizard is causing harm (and quite a bit of it) of meaningless. Seriously, if you have a valid argument please make it, but don't bring nonsense into the discussion.
I probably have one.
As a GM, I would likely require a ranged touch attack to hit the target you want (similarly to flying overhead and lobbing alchemist's fire at people), which would (as a side effect) mean that dumping lava on people no longer qualifies as an indirect attack in the same way that triggering a trap to shoot arrows at them does. If you're rolling the attack roll, it's a direct attack.
(I also think it is unlikely that smallish bits of lava would have really large scale destructive potential - given that significantly damaging cities in WWII required immense bombardments with thousands upon thousands of devices each vastly more destructive in its own right - but that's a judgment call separate from the rules argument).
Remember, cities in this time period (Late medieval/early Renaissance) were a lot smaller than, say, London during WWII.
And a 10 ft. cube of lava is plenty large enough to deal some damage.
It's a bit ignominious to be killed my a low level flying wizard with a wand of snowballs isn't it?...You know, a legendary artifact sword that carried its own antimagic field or similar effect could be a fun toy to center a campaign plot around.I agree.
Maybe a Sarevok like villain beating the bajeezus out of wizard guilds.
Wizards become the princesses in need of saving.
A wizard flies away and readies his snowballs, meanwhile the villain and his cohort stalk the halls and slaughter all those inside. Their magical experiments and spells going dead just before the killers enter.
If they want to fly out once he is upon them, they will have to throw themselves out of the window. Goodbye Harry and Hermione.
When the villain leaves, maybe he orders his men to shoot the wizard to death, maybe he throws his sword at him (causing the wizard to fall to the earth as fly is negated). How large the anti-magic effect is would be determined by the dm that creates the artifact for the campaign.
Just because the Wizard is causing harm (and quite a bit of it) of meaningless. Seriously, if you have a valid argument please make it, but don't bring nonsense into the discussion.I probably have one.
As a GM, I would likely require a ranged touch attack to hit the target you want (similarly to flying overhead and lobbing alchemist's fire at people), which would (as a side effect) mean that dumping lava on people no longer qualifies as an indirect attack in the same way that triggering a trap to shoot arrows at them does. If you're rolling the attack roll, it's a direct attack.
(I also think it is unlikely that smallish bits of lava would have really large scale destructive potential - given that significantly damaging cities in WWII required immense bombardments with thousands upon thousands of devices each vastly more destructive in its own right - but that's a judgment call separate from the rules argument).
You can still attack the buildings (even with an attack roll) without breaking invisible. Even if there are people in those buildings that may then burn that is indirect from the lava drop and therefore will not break invisibility. Also as I stated above provided you place the lava in some kind of sliding trap that drops it you could use such a trap to target people under the 3rd point of Invisibility.
Napalm is similar(ish) to lava so I think you are underselling the damage the lava does.
It's a bit ignominious to be killed my a low level flying wizard with a wand of snowballs isn't it?...You know, a legendary artifact sword that carried its own antimagic field or similar effect could be a fun toy to center a campaign plot around.I agree.
Maybe a Sarevok like villain beating the bajeezus out of wizard guilds.
Wizards become the princesses in need of saving.
A wizard flies away and readies his snowballs, meanwhile the villain and his cohort stalk the halls and slaughter all those inside. Their magical experiments and spells going dead just before the killers enter.
If they want to fly out once he is upon them, they will have to throw themselves out of the window. Goodbye Harry and Hermione.
When the villain leaves, maybe he orders his men to shoot the wizard to death, maybe he throws his sword at him (causing the wizard to fall to the earth as fly is negated). How large the anti-magic effect is would be determined by the dm that creates the artifact for the campaign.
Well thats the city's fault for putting up an anti-magic field. I'd say they brought it on themselves and is a good example of why you don't put an anti-magic field over your town. (Because a Wizard might come in and kill you all off effortless since you lack magical defenses).
Really your example is the perfect reason why I'm right. So thanks for that.
It is there a rule that state that snowball bypass the antimagic field? or it this another example of caster using the non existing raw to be more powerful.
I i mean a rule. Not just an extrapolation from a descriptive text.
Remember, cities in this time period (Late medieval/early Renaissance) were a lot smaller than, say, London during WWII.
And much more flammable. Not to mention that things like professional fire departments hadn't been invented yet.
Remember, cities in this time period (Late medieval/early Renaissance) were a lot smaller than, say, London during WWII.
And a 10 ft. cube of lava is plenty large enough to deal some damage.
Yeah... to my apartment. It's not going to pose an existential threat to even a hamlet in Pathfinder though, let alone a town large and prosperous enough to even consider things like antimagic.
It's the same principle on which a fireball is plenty big enough to do damage... on the scale of a dungeon room, since dungeon rooms are the scale the game is designed around. Not on the scale of a town or city.
The smallest documented walls of medieval Paris enclosed a bit under 30 million square feet of land (with some more stuff outside). Good luck with the 10 ft.
(the final and largest walls built around Paris, in the 1800s for administrative purposes, enclosed about 840 million square feet)
Of course, this goes both ways. Antimagic covering such an area would likely be fantastically more expensive than even the higher estimates in this thread, or (more practically) in artifact territory, given that constant antimagic over about 300 square ft already borders on artifact level costs.
It is there a rule that state that snowball bypass the antimagic field? or it this another example of caster using the non existing raw to be more powerful.
I i mean a rule. Not just an extrapolation from a descriptive text.
To quote the Antimagic Field spell:
"The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result."
Not to mention that things like professional fire departments hadn't been invented yet.
This isn't true. Professional fire departments in Europe date to classical antiquity, specifically late Republican Rome. Many medieval urban areas also had firefighters.
It is there a rule that state that snowball bypass the antimagic field? or it this another example of caster using the non existing raw to be more powerful.
I i mean a rule. Not just an extrapolation from a descriptive text.
To quote the Antimagic Field spell:
"The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result."
Ok. Casters win.
I just want to say that that is a really awful and laughable rule.
yeah, take this 50 point of damage from my totally non-magical snowball, and make a save or be dazed ann another or be staggered. Ludicrous.
It is there a rule that state that snowball bypass the antimagic field? or it this another example of caster using the non existing raw to be more powerful.
I i mean a rule. Not just an extrapolation from a descriptive text.
To quote the Antimagic Field spell:
"The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result."
Ok. Casters win.
I just want to say that that is a really awful and laughable rule.
yeah, take this 50 point of damage from my totally non-magical snowball. Ludicrous.
But of course totally non magical slings must be strictly realistic.
Not to mention that things like professional fire departments hadn't been invented yet.This isn't true. Professional fire departments in Europe date to classical antiquity, specifically late Republican Rome. Many medieval urban areas also had firefighters. They would have been mad not to.
Leaving aside for the moment Crassus' extortion scheme masquerading as a fire service, there's a reason I specified "professional fire departments." What you had in medieval times were untrained, unpaid, and unorganized volunteer forces.
But of course totally non magical slings must be strictly realistic.It is there a rule that state that snowball bypass the antimagic field? or it this another example of caster using the non existing raw to be more powerful.
I i mean a rule. Not just an extrapolation from a descriptive text.
To quote the Antimagic Field spell:
"The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result."
Ok. Casters win.
I just want to say that that is a really awful and laughable rule.
yeah, take this 50 point of damage from my totally non-magical snowball. Ludicrous.
Except for the part where the game ignores the advantages of the sling and the disadvantages of the bow, that part is inmune to realism.
Leaving aside for the moment Crassus' extortion scheme masquerading as a fire service, there's a reason I specified "professional fire departments."Not to mention that things like professional fire departments hadn't been invented yet.This isn't true. Professional fire departments in Europe date to classical antiquity, specifically late Republican Rome. Many medieval urban areas also had firefighters. They would have been mad not to.
What you had in medieval times were untrained, unpaid, and unorganized volunteer forces.
A quick googling seems to dislike this theory as well.
During the medieval period, firefighting was largely self-organised. Various European monarchs (such as Louis IX of France), set up state-funded fire-fighters, but also encouraged regular citizens to form their own “fire-bands”. These acted like Neighbourhood Watch committees, which patrolled the streets at night, keeping an eye out for fires and crimes in progress.
Leaving aside for the moment Crassus' extortion scheme masquerading as a fire service, there's a reason I specified "professional fire departments."Not to mention that things like professional fire departments hadn't been invented yet.This isn't true. Professional fire departments in Europe date to classical antiquity, specifically late Republican Rome. Many medieval urban areas also had firefighters. They would have been mad not to.What you had in medieval times were untrained, unpaid, and unorganized volunteer forces.A quick googling seems to dislike this theory as well.
During the medieval period, firefighting was largely self-organised. Various European monarchs (such as Louis IX of France), set up state-funded fire-fighters, but also encouraged regular citizens to form their own “fire-bands”. These acted like Neighbourhood Watch committees, which patrolled the streets at night, keeping an eye out for fires and crimes in progress.
CURSE YOU WIKIPEDIA! You have betrayed me!
It is there a rule that state that snowball bypass the antimagic field? or it this another example of caster using the non existing raw to be more powerful.
I i mean a rule. Not just an extrapolation from a descriptive text.
For the record, if you haven't noticed from my love of quoting the text of things I'm talking about. Most people who point out the caster/martial disparity do so from rock solid RAW. We don't need to make up non-existent rules to prove our point. Under the rules of Pathfinder, caster *are* superior to martials, so all we need to do is point to the rules and laugh as the other makes a bunch of nonsense.
The same reason you don't see prison bars made out of anti mater, regardless of how effective they would be at preventing escape.
For the record, if you haven't noticed from my love of quoting the text of things I'm talking about. Most people who point out the caster/martial disparity do so from rock solid RAW. We don't need to make up non-existent rules to prove our point. Under the rules of Pathfinder, caster *are* superior to martials, so all we need to do is point to the rules and laugh as the other makes a bunch of nonsense.It is there a rule that state that snowball bypass the antimagic field? or it this another example of caster using the non existing raw to be more powerful.
I i mean a rule. Not just an extrapolation from a descriptive text.
Please don't lot everyone who agrees with your points into the same group who approaches the discussion with such a condescending outlook.
Its not condescending. It's how the rules work. 2+2 is going to equal 4 no matter much the other side demands that it equals 3. If you find that condescending I apologize for giving that impression, but the facts are the facts regardless of how they make one feel. I don't have any feelings on this matter one way or the other, if it seems that way it is only because I like making valid arguments, rather than invalid ones.
Just a small.reminder on the lava: its not a.10ft by 10ft by 10ft cube, it's ten cubic feet.
To put that in some context, its 75 gallons, or about 1/4th of a cubic metre, or a little bit less than two average bathtubs.
Fire is dangerous, especially to a medieval town, just wanted to poibt out that its not some huge blob but rather a quite small one.
Note also that whether ghis works depends on if the GM rules shrink object keps changing objects static, preventing the lava from cooling.