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Mild NSFW and could be considered sexest
Not sure if thats the right way to promote something like this.
Huh. That was... Odd. Certainly not how I'd expect that to be promoted.
Weird, yes.
Sexist? How?
Mild NSFW and could be considered sexest
Not sure if thats the right way to promote something like this.
I like it!
Heh, well we're talking about it here. So if you asked me, it worked.
How could you not tell right off the bat what it was for? Saw it coming a mile away!
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Weird, yes.
Sexist? How?
Must be something about selling something unrelated by use of female sexuality, or maybe about presenting a woman as an object.
Could you imagine the same commercial happening only with a male actor instead of a female? if not, and given the nudity, this is a good indication of sexism.
Weird, yes.
Sexist? How?
Must be something about selling something unrelated by use of female sexuality, or maybe about presenting a woman as an object.
Could you imagine the same commercial happening only with a male actor instead of a female? if not, and given the nudity, this is a good indication of sexism.
Same commercial? No, considering the target audience. You pitch to your audience, and let's face it the majority of gamers are male.
Similar techniques in other commercials? Certainly.
See: Old Spice, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.
I got friends that really love their dice, but not THAT much!!!
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Weird, yes.
Sexist? How?
Must be something about selling something unrelated by use of female sexuality, or maybe about presenting a woman as an object.
Could you imagine the same commercial happening only with a male actor instead of a female? if not, and given the nudity, this is a good indication of sexism.
Same commercial? No, considering the target audience. You pitch to your audience, and let's face it the majority of gamers are male.
Similar techniques in other commercials? Certainly.
See: Old Spice, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.
I don't know the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" commercial, but the Old Spice one is clearly
a) Aimed at males
b) Using exaggerated sexuality as a joke
Besides (And I really feel that this is trivial enough that I don't even need to say this, but whatever), sexuality does have a connection to a cosmetic product (does deodorant count as cosmetics? I'm not sure what the right word is...). Claiming that you really want Old Spice because the smell exerts power and attracts women is a legitimate sales pitch for the product. Showing a naked woman sensually fondling dice is more problematic. The same technique is used all the time (this is, however, the first time I saw it being used in a geeky product).
I'm not saying anything astoundingly clever here, by the way, and I know from other threads that you are a very observant person. Is there any reason you are refusing to use an analytic thought process here?
Weird, yes.
Sexist? How?
Must be something about selling something unrelated by use of female sexuality, or maybe about presenting a woman as an object.
Could you imagine the same commercial happening only with a male actor instead of a female? if not, and given the nudity, this is a good indication of sexism.
Same commercial? No, considering the target audience. You pitch to your audience, and let's face it the majority of gamers are male.
Similar techniques in other commercials? Certainly.
See: Old Spice, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.
OK, now picture yourself as a girl, perhaps even an attractive girl, perhaps even resembling the person from this ad, who proceeds to attend this here con, because hey, weekend of hanging out playing games.
And NOW picture some of the guys you've seen at cons, having just watched this commercial 20 times in a row, watching you enter.
The resulting uncomfortable feeling is pretty much the baseline for any girl attending any con. Actually having a commercial like this is just going to make it that much worse.
Distant worlds, IIRC.
Weird, yes.
Sexist? How?
Must be something about selling something unrelated by use of female sexuality, or maybe about presenting a woman as an object.
Could you imagine the same commercial happening only with a male actor instead of a female? if not, and given the nudity, this is a good indication of sexism.
Same commercial? No, considering the target audience. You pitch to your audience, and let's face it the majority of gamers are male.
Similar techniques in other commercials? Certainly.
See: Old Spice, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.
OK, now picture yourself as a girl, perhaps even an attractive girl, perhaps even resembling the person from this ad, who proceeds to attend this here con, because hey, weekend of hanging out playing games.
And NOW picture some of the guys you've seen at cons, having just watched this commercial 20 times in a row, watching you enter.
The resulting uncomfortable feeling is pretty much the baseline for any girl attending any con. Actually having a commercial like this is just going to make it that much worse.
I don't know, Google. I'm certainly not trying to claim that the commercial advanced the state of female gamers in any way,shape or form. One the other hand, given just how misogynistic the misogynistic segment of the gaming population is, I doubt the commercial could really make it any more so. On the other other hand (yes, I have three hands) every time I ask how things could get any worse, the universe shows me.
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I hope there weren't any d4s in that bathtub.
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I think people misunderstand me a bit, or have different definitions of "sexist" than I do.
Yes, I can easily see that they're using sexuality to sell their
product". That is obvious.
What I DON'T see, is that this is sexist in some way.
It's not belittling women, or discriminating against them, it's objectifying them.
Which is it's own problem, but doesn't fall under the blanket of sexism to me.
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Sexist? Maybe not. But in the context of how hostile gaming environments can be for women I definitely don't think it's the most sensitive ad.
Every ad that's "not making it any worse" is certainly not making it any better.
I can see how this could be considered sexist. As for commercials selling something towards males, and showing a guy, just look towards the "BOD" commercials. Those are fairly sexist commercials towards guys (the entire commercials are girls saying "hot bod" and "nice bod" aimed at some muscular dudes). This commercial is mild compared to those.
I will say, I wasn't expecting her to get into a bathtub full of dice. Poor girl was probably uncomfortable, even if they did place cushions or pillows or other such small stuff on the bottom, sat her in there, and poured some dice on her. Still an interesting commercial.
Sexist? Maybe not. But in the context of how hostile gaming environments can be for women I definitely don't think it's the most sensitive ad.
Every ad that's "not making it any worse" is certainly not making it any better.
That's a very good point, Ellis. I hope my previous post didn't come across as "Doesn't bother me, don't know what the ladies are in such a tizzy about!"
OK, I'm not going to use the "S" word.
But if I saw this commercial running for a Con I had planned on attending, I would be seriously uncomfortable and looking into my options on how to cancel my attendance. I feel sorry for other female gamers who plan to attend, and even more sorry for any female RPG developers/booth reps who have to attend as part of their jobs.
Ambrosia, I'm not asking you to say it here, but please PM me the "S" word, just so I'm sure of what were talking about, that cool?
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I think people misunderstand me a bit, or have different definitions of "sexist" than I do.
Yes, I can easily see that they're using sexuality to sell their
product". That is obvious.What I DON'T see, is that this is sexist in some way.
It's not belittling women, or discriminating against them, it's objectifying them.
Which is it's own problem, but doesn't fall under the blanket of sexism to me.
Well, I think that if you can't imagine a situation where this commercial goes exactly the same only with a man instead of a woman, *and* the commercial objectifies a woman, then it's sexist. It's reducing this woman to nothing but her sex, in a way that has nothing to do with the product itself. This goes beyond merely objectifying because it would only work with a woman.
But, it sounds like this quibble is more about conflicting definitions, which is a tedious subject to argue.
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Weird, yes.
Sexist? How?
Must be something about selling something unrelated by use of female sexuality, or maybe about presenting a woman as an object.
Could you imagine the same commercial happening only with a male actor instead of a female? if not, and given the nudity, this is a good indication of sexism.
Same commercial? No, considering the target audience. You pitch to your audience, and let's face it the majority of gamers are male.
Similar techniques in other commercials? Certainly.
See: Old Spice, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.
OK, now picture yourself as a girl, perhaps even an attractive girl, perhaps even resembling the person from this ad, who proceeds to attend this here con, because hey, weekend of hanging out playing games.
And NOW picture some of the guys you've seen at cons, having just watched this commercial 20 times in a row, watching you enter.
The resulting uncomfortable feeling is pretty much the baseline for any girl attending any con. Actually having a commercial like this is just going to make it that much worse.
Yikes, Cons are that bad huh?
Ambrosia, I'm not asking you to say it here, but please PM me the "S" word, just so I'm sure of what were talking about, that cool?
Sexist. I didn't mean to be mysterious; it just seems pointless to use it when there seems to be at least two, and likely more, definitions being used in this thread.
The Con ad isn't selling anything remotely related to sex/dating or personal grooming. I'd react similarly if I was at a car show or a computer gaming show and there were a bevy of young attractive women in tight/minimalist clothing standing around & posing for photo ops as advertising/eye candy and they had absolutely nothing to do with the products being displayed/demo'ed.
See, that's funny for me. Considering the thread title, I was all, "Well, on this website it can't be about RPGs, so it's probably something like, "Calgon, take me away!'" and then it was, but when she was in a bathtub full of dice like bubble bath bubbles, I was all, "So it is an RPG ad, I guess?"
I think the Con ad is just trying to appeal to the male attendee market.
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Yikes, Cons are that bad huh?OK, now picture yourself as a girl, perhaps even an attractive girl, perhaps even resembling the person from this ad, who proceeds to attend this here con, because hey, weekend of hanging out playing games.
And NOW picture some of the guys you've seen at cons, having just watched this commercial 20 times in a row, watching you enter.
The resulting uncomfortable feeling is pretty much the baseline for any girl attending any con. Actually having a commercial like this is just going to make it that much worse.
Not for everyone, or at all times, but conventions as a general rule are always going to attract a certain number of really unsavory types. Basically, most people attending are going to be normal, socially functionally people, but the fan base of anything is going to include a few people who really have no life at all outside their one interest, and lack proper social skills as a result. If you hold a convention about that interest, it's going to be the highlight of their year, so they're going to be around, all excited and emboldened, leering and failing to take hints or respect personal space.
How big of an actual problem this becomes varies from con to con, mainly depending on the general vibe they put out, and how much they actively care about maintaining a safe inclusive atmosphere. Specifically tossing out ads whose message is "Come to this convention for the sexy girls who will have sex with you!" is a rather extreme example of how to put out the wrong kind of vibe if you want any women in attendance not to be horribly harassed by the attendees who don't get out much.
I think the Con ad is just trying to appeal to the male attendee market.
Except the ad pretty much makes it unappealing to a good chunk, if not most, female attendees.
I don't think the Con's management and the ad creator's are necessarily sexist, or regularly engage in sexist behaviors. I'm guessing they just didn't consider how female potential con attendees would perceive it. But as a female nerd that is attracted to other females, that ad is still not appealing to me. If they were running a similar ad with male cheesecake to appeal to female gamers and gay male gamers, I'd have any easier time accepting their marketing campaign's "cheekiness."
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I think the Con ad is just trying to appeal to the male attendee market.Except the ad pretty much makes it unappealing to a good chunk, if not most, female attendees.
I don't think the Con's management and the ad creator's are necessarily sexist, or regularly engage in sexist behaviors. I'm guessing they just didn't consider how female potential con attendees would perceive it. But as a female nerd that is attracted to other females, that ad is still not appealing to me. If they were running a similar ad with male cheesecake to appeal to female gamers and gay male gamers, I'd have any easier time accepting their marketing campaign's "cheekiness."
Its odd because they also did this. Well when I say "they" I could be wrong and multiple parties could be making these videos. In any event the two approaches are very disparate.
I think the Con ad is just trying to appeal to the male attendee market.Except the ad pretty much makes it unappealing to a good chunk, if not most, female attendees.
I don't think the Con's management and the ad creator's are necessarily sexist, or regularly engage in sexist behaviors. I'm guessing they just didn't consider how female potential con attendees would perceive it. But as a female nerd that is attracted to other females, that ad is still not appealing to me. If they were running a similar ad with male cheesecake to appeal to female gamers and gay male gamers, I'd have any easier time accepting their marketing campaign's "cheekiness."
I think maybe we're talking past each other, here. When I said the con ad is just trying to appeal to the male attendee market, I meant that that particular con ad is solely appealing to the male market out of all the possible markets. I'm not making apologies for their ad where a super hot business woman stalks into the room and undresses while glaring at the camera; I'm saying I thought it was a feminine product ad at first glance, but on second glance, the feminine experience had nothing whatsoever to do with the product the were selling.
Man, it's junk like this that makes me save Scott & Bailey on my DVR.
It's not belittling women, or discriminating against them, it's objectifying them.
Objectification is a way of uplifting people and treating them as equals?
Objectification is a way of uplifting people and treating them as equals?
No, it's a hyperbolic way of saying that people like pretty people. If you are pretty enough to be in an ad, we're clearly not equals.
Objectification is a way of uplifting people and treating them as equals?No, it's a hyperbolic way of saying that people like pretty people. If you are pretty enough to be in an ad, we're clearly not equals.
Objectification - to treat a person as a thing, without regard to their dignity.
Using the word objectification means you are denying at least a portion of that person's dignity. If you want to express physical attraction and are doing so respectfully, there are better words to use, even in hyperbole.
Objectification can happen outside of sexism, but in the context of a society where men typically hold more power than women, when it is directed at women it is often part of sexism. There are other ways to deny a person's dignity, objectification is only one of them.
I think the Con ad is just trying to appeal to the male attendee market.Except the ad pretty much makes it unappealing to a good chunk, if not most, female attendees.
I don't think the Con's management and the ad creator's are necessarily sexist, or regularly engage in sexist behaviors. I'm guessing they just didn't consider how female potential con attendees would perceive it. But as a female nerd that is attracted to other females, that ad is still not appealing to me. If they were running a similar ad with male cheesecake to appeal to female gamers and gay male gamers, I'd have any easier time accepting their marketing campaign's "cheekiness."
Actually, most male gamers would find it funny. But, this is because men don't have to deal with the ubiquitous objectification that women do.
I... Don't find this sexist. She's bathing in a bathtub full of dice. If she was writhing in ecstasy, clearly masturbating in the tub, or anything like that I'd be more inclined to agree. But she's clearly playing with the dice(and possibly in a great deal of pain, I did something similar and it FREAKING HURT!!!) and relaxing. I don't find it sexist, just weird.
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I... Don't find this sexist. She's bathing in a bathtub full of dice. If she was writhing in ecstasy, clearly masturbating in the tub, or anything like that I'd be more inclined to agree. But she's clearly playing with the dice(and possibly in a great deal of pain, I did something similar and it FREAKING HURT!!!) and relaxing. I don't find it sexist, just weird.
Ignoring the extremely obvious sexual connotations of this commercial is pointless, I think. Look at the way the scene is shot - the way the girl is looking at the scene, the way the camera tracks her body... she is not just a person relaxing in a shower, she is a hot woman getting naked.
This is a video. The women does not need to act as if she's in a porn movie in order for it to be 100000% clear that she is supposed to be viewed in a sexual way. It's in the way the camera is handled.