Inexperienced player looking for a Sorcerer build (Home Campaign)


Advice

Liberty's Edge

I've only ever played PFS before and I've never played anything outside of my fighter. We are starting a new home campaign, beginning in Riddleport, with 25-point builds.

I've been wanting to try my hand at magic for a while now and as a newbie spell caster I'd like to start with a Sorcerer as there is a lot less book keeping involved.

I need some help to bring this character to life! If you could post a sorcerer build, I'd really appreciate it!

Liberty's Edge

Mega Matt wrote:

I've only ever played PFS before and I've never played anything outside of my fighter. We are starting a new home campaign, beginning in Riddleport, with 25-point builds.

I've been wanting to try my hand at magic for a while now and as a newbie spell caster I'd like to start with a Sorcerer as there is a lot less book keeping involved.

I need some help to bring this character to life! If you could post a sorcerer build, I'd really appreciate it!

What do you want to focus on? Blasting? Mind control? Terrain manipulation?

All have very different builds, and lackng a focus is seriously problematic.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mega Matt wrote:

I've only ever played PFS before and I've never played anything outside of my fighter. We are starting a new home campaign, beginning in Riddleport, with 25-point builds.

I've been wanting to try my hand at magic for a while now and as a newbie spell caster I'd like to start with a Sorcerer as there is a lot less book keeping involved.

I need some help to bring this character to life! If you could post a sorcerer build, I'd really appreciate it!

First rule of RPG's or it should be.... Your Prime Directive is to have fun. Having fun is either about crunching numbers. (whom I'll leave to others more practised) or making a character that sings to you. Not that a good roleplay character can't be an effective character, but you need framework to build on.

First Rule of Sorcerers. You're not a wizard.Don't be fooled by the simmilar saves, BAB, hit dice, and spell list. Some sorcerer players try to ape being a wizard by taking the Arcane Bloodline, but you're still not a wizard. A wizard changes his build daily with his spell selection, you don't have that freedom. A sorcerer is a magical person best built around a theme. The goal is to then work that theme into something awesome. Your choice of bloodline is the centerpost of that awesome.

Liberty's Edge

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:

I've only ever played PFS before and I've never played anything outside of my fighter. We are starting a new home campaign, beginning in Riddleport, with 25-point builds.

I've been wanting to try my hand at magic for a while now and as a newbie spell caster I'd like to start with a Sorcerer as there is a lot less book keeping involved.

I need some help to bring this character to life! If you could post a sorcerer build, I'd really appreciate it!

What do you want to focus on? Blasting? Mind control? Terrain manipulation?

All have very different builds, and lackng a focus is seriously problematic.

Thanks for the reply!

For my first caster, I think I want to focus mainly on blasting. Perhaps I can pick up a couple spells here and there for enfeebling?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mega Matt wrote:


For my first caster, I think I want to focus mainly on blasting. Perhaps I can pick up a couple spells here and there for enfeebling?

Don't dilute your theme. You can be a great blaster as a sorcerer, but you've got to pour your heart and soul into it. A great choice is an elemental theme, but don't neglect force spells for when your target is resistant or immune to your chosen element. Or if you want to disable, add color spray to your repetoire. It's part of my fire sorcerer's build for the imagery alone.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:


For my first caster, I think I want to focus mainly on blasting. Perhaps I can pick up a couple spells here and there for enfeebling?
Don't dilute your theme. You can be a great blaster as a sorcerer, but you've got to pour your heart and soul into it. A great choice is an elemental theme, but don't neglect force spells for when your target is resistant or immune to your chosen element. Or if you want to disable, add color spray to your repetoire. It's part of my fire sorcerer's build for the imagery alone.

Okay, I think I will enjoy blasting on my first caster the most.

So, pure blaster it is! Which spells should I focus on? Any advice on which element I should try first? I love Electricity & Ice =O

Silver Crusade

I prefer wizards, since wizards make better blasters imo due to the admixture wizard.

aside from that.

couple of options-

traits- magical lineage

Feats to look at
-spell focus/greater spell focus
-preferred spells
-spell specialization
-spell penetration
-look into metamagics as well.

I like half elves so you can get the extra +2 on spell pen.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:

I've only ever played PFS before and I've never played anything outside of my fighter. We are starting a new home campaign, beginning in Riddleport, with 25-point builds.

I've been wanting to try my hand at magic for a while now and as a newbie spell caster I'd like to start with a Sorcerer as there is a lot less book keeping involved.

I need some help to bring this character to life! If you could post a sorcerer build, I'd really appreciate it!

First rule of RPG's or it should be.... Your Prime Directive is to have fun. Having fun is either about crunching numbers. (whom I'll leave to others more practised) or making a character that sings to you. Not that a good roleplay character can't be an effective character, but you need framework to build on.

First Rule of Sorcerers. You're not a wizard.Don't be fooled by the simmilar saves, BAB, hit dice, and spell list. Some sorcerer players try to ape being a wizard by taking the Arcane Bloodline, but you're still not a wizard. A wizard changes his build daily with his spell selection, you don't have that freedom. A sorcerer is a magical person best built around a theme. The goal is to then work that theme into something awesome. Your choice of bloodline is the centerpost of that awesome.

Haha, it's funny you mention this. I actually created a sorcerer just a few days ago and play tested it. It was a mess! Lol, I tried to do way too much. I went with the Sage bloodline out of Ultimate Magic so that I could get more skill points . . . that was my first bad idea, lol. That test build was an elf with Breadth of Experience, I felt this was also a bad decision because I couldn't hit anything with the lack of feats.


Mega Matt wrote:
Any advice on which element I should try first? I love Electricity & Ice =O

Like cold? Take a look at the Boreal bloodline (Rime Blooded archetype).


Gnome with pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Go tatoooed sorcerer and take your focus in evocation....take feats like dazing spell and spell penetration....take improved familiar at 7th level and get him some wands to UMD for added blasts goodness....viola.

Liberty's Edge

rorek55 wrote:

I prefer wizards, since wizards make better blasters imo due to the admixture wizard.

aside from that.

couple of options-

traits- magical lineage

Feats to look at
-spell focus/greater spell focus
-preferred spells
-spell specialization
-spell penetration
-look into metamagics as well.

I like half elves so you can get the extra +2 on spell pen.

Are ranged touch attacks, like Ray of Frost/Acid Splash, affected by precise shot and point blank shot?

Liberty's Edge

Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Gnome with pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Go tatoooed sorcerer and take your focus in evocation....take feats like dazing spell and spell penetration....take improved familiar at 7th level and get him some wands to UMD for added blasts goodness....viola.

Haha, this is actually kind of interesting. Been researching it since I read this.

Liberty's Edge

Actually, Sage is a solid bloodline...though less than ideal for a blaster.

For a blaster focusing on electricity I'd go Djinni Bloodline, Elemental Blodline is okay, but reassigns all the spells it grants to electricity, which makes the Arcana kinda weak (since it works better if you have several non-electricity damage spells). Marid Bloodline is similarly nice for cold spells.

As others suggest, if going fire-based, Gnome Pyromaniac is great, and I'd personally combine it with Efreeti Bloodline. The Half-Orc Favored Class bonus is also an excellent alternative for fire-based characters. On the other hand, fire is probably the most commonly resisted element in the game, making electricity likely a better choice (acid's good too, but you said you liked electricity).

Draconic and Orc Bloodlines are also a solid for blasting (with Orc probably slightly better)...but it has the problem of lacking the ability to easily switch energy types, which is difficult sometimes on a blast-focused character.

Feat advice noted above is good for the most part.

Liberty's Edge

Mega Matt wrote:
Are ranged touch attacks, like Ray of Frost/Acid Splash, affected by precise shot and point blank shot?

Yes, but as Touch Attacks that's usually unnecessary as you go up in level.


Mega Matt wrote:

I've only ever played PFS before and I've never played anything outside of my fighter. We are starting a new home campaign, beginning in Riddleport, with 25-point builds.

I've been wanting to try my hand at magic for a while now and as a newbie spell caster I'd like to start with a Sorcerer as there is a lot less book keeping involved.

I need some help to bring this character to life! If you could post a sorcerer build, I'd really appreciate it!

Example:
CG Human Air Elemental Sorceress |7 12 12 14 8 20| Bluff, Disguise, Fly/Linguistics, Knowledge(planes), Spellcraft

Traits:Adopted(Almost Human(+4 to disguise as human)), Planar Savant(cha for knowledge planes checks)
1. Deceitful, Skill Focus(bluff), cantrips, eschew materials
Elemental Ray
0th: Daze
0th:Prestidigitation,Acid-Splash, Mending,Mage-hand| 1st:Silent-Image, Unseen-Servant
2.
0th: Detect-Poison
0th:Ghost-Sound
3. Extend Spell
Elemental Resistance 10| 1st:Burning-Hands*
0th: Open/Close
1st: Magic-Missile
4.
1st: Grease
0th:Read-Magic| 2nd:Invisibility
5. Still Spell
2nd: Scorching-Ray*
1st: Obscuring-Mist
1st:Disguise-Self| 2nd:Mirror-Image
6.
2nd: Glitterdust
0th:Dancing-Lights|3rd:Fireball
7. Heighten Spell, Empower Spell
3rd: Protection-from-energy
2md: Web
1st:Mage-Armor| 2nd:False-Life|3rd:Fly
8.
3rd: Stinking-Cloud
0th:Message| 4th:Shadow-Conjuration
9. Silent Spell
Elemental Resistance 20| Elemental Blast (1/day)| 4th: Elemental-Body-I
3rd: Sleet-Storm
2nd:Command-Undead|3rd:Lightning-Bolt| 4th:Animate-Dead
10.
4th: Black-Tentacles
0th:Detect-Magic| 5th:Shadow-Evocation
11. Quicken Spell
5th: Elemental-Body-II
4th: Wall-of-Ice
2nd:Whispering-Wind|3rd:Magic-Circle-Against-Evil|4th:Dimensional-Anchor|5t h:Planar-Binding-lesser
12.
5th: Wall-of-Force
6th: Shadow-Walk
13. Maximize Spell, Improved Initiative
6th: Elemental-Body-III
5th: Cloudkill
4th:Dimension-Door|
5th:Teleport|6th:Planar-Binding
14.
6th:Disintegrate
7th: Shadow-Conjuration-Greater
15. Widen Spell
Elemental Movement(Fly 60 ft)|7th: Elemental-Body-VI
6th: Acid-Fog
5th:Telekinesis|6th:Chain-Lightning|7th:Limited-Wish
16.
7th: Reverse-Gravity
8th: Shadow-Evocation-Greater
17. Enlarge Spell
Elemental Blast (2/day)| 8th: SMVIII(elementals only)
7th: Waves-of-Exhaustion
7th:Simulacrum|
8th:Planar-Binding-Greater
18.
8th: Incendiary-Cloud
9th:Shades
19. Toughness, Weapon Finesse
9th: Elemental Swarm
8th: Maze
8th:Polymorph-Any-Object| 9th:Shapechange
20.
Elemental Blast (3/day)| Elemental Body| 8th: Prismatic-Wall
9th:Gate


Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Gnome with pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Go tatoooed sorcerer and take your focus in evocation....take feats like dazing spell and spell penetration....take improved familiar at 7th level and get him some wands to UMD for added blasts goodness....viola.
Haha, this is actually kind of interesting. Been researching it since I read this.

It is pretty darn fun...alternately you can back off the blasting a tiny bit and take the Fey Sylvan bloodline and pick up an animal companion to fight for you on the front lines while you blast from the back....need to take boon companion at third though.

Liberty's Edge

@Marthkus

Thank you for the build example!

Liberty's Edge

Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Gnome with pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Go tatoooed sorcerer and take your focus in evocation....take feats like dazing spell and spell penetration....take improved familiar at 7th level and get him some wands to UMD for added blasts goodness....viola.
Haha, this is actually kind of interesting. Been researching it since I read this.
It is pretty darn fun...alternately you can back off the blasting a tiny bit and take the Fey Sylvan bloodline and pick up an animal companion to fight for you on the front lines while you blast from the back....need to take boon companion at third though.

I have a question for you, Lazurin. the Feat Improved Familiar says; "This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.". Since you get the familiar at level 1 does that still fulfill the "Ability to acquire a new familiar" Prerequisite?

The wording gets me occasionally on some of these descriptions.


Mega Matt wrote:

...the Feat Improved Familiar says; "This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.". Since you get the familiar at level 1 does that still fulfill the "Ability to acquire a new familiar" Prerequisite?

See the table here

Each type of familiar has a level requirement for you to gain it. You can "normally acquire a new familiar" when you meet the level requirement for that type of familiar.

As I understand the way it is written, your initial familiar can't be an improved familiar. That may be faulty interpretation on my part, however.


Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Gnome with pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Go tatoooed sorcerer and take your focus in evocation....take feats like dazing spell and spell penetration....take improved familiar at 7th level and get him some wands to UMD for added blasts goodness....viola.
Haha, this is actually kind of interesting. Been researching it since I read this.
It is pretty darn fun...alternately you can back off the blasting a tiny bit and take the Fey Sylvan bloodline and pick up an animal companion to fight for you on the front lines while you blast from the back....need to take boon companion at third though.

I have a question for you, Lazurin. the Feat Improved Familiar says; "This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.". Since you get the familiar at level 1 does that still fulfill the "Ability to acquire a new familiar" Prerequisite?

The wording gets me occasionally on some of these descriptions.

It just refers to the fact that a) you need to be a class that can get one. And B) if you dismiss your first one, you have to wait a week to get a new one.


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aboniks wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:

...the Feat Improved Familiar says; "This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.". Since you get the familiar at level 1 does that still fulfill the "Ability to acquire a new familiar" Prerequisite?

See the table here

Each type of familiar has a level requirement for you to gain it. You can "normally acquire a new familiar" when you meet the level requirement for that type of familiar.

As I understand the way it is written, your initial familiar can't be an improved familiar. That may be faulty interpretation on my part, however.

it could be your initial if you never took one at first level...but odds are you aren't going to do that.

Liberty's Edge

Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Gnome with pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Go tatoooed sorcerer and take your focus in evocation....take feats like dazing spell and spell penetration....take improved familiar at 7th level and get him some wands to UMD for added blasts goodness....viola.
Haha, this is actually kind of interesting. Been researching it since I read this.
It is pretty darn fun...alternately you can back off the blasting a tiny bit and take the Fey Sylvan bloodline and pick up an animal companion to fight for you on the front lines while you blast from the back....need to take boon companion at third though.

I have a question for you, Lazurin. the Feat Improved Familiar says; "This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.". Since you get the familiar at level 1 does that still fulfill the "Ability to acquire a new familiar" Prerequisite?

The wording gets me occasionally on some of these descriptions.

It just refers to the fact that a) you need to be a class that can get one. And B) if you dismiss your first one, you have to wait a week to get a new one.

This build idea really intrigues me. Seems like a blast. Looking over the improved familiar table, any particularly notable companions? I'm assuming it needs hands in order to use a magical device? lol


Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
it could be your initial if you never took one at first level...but odds are you aren't going to do that.

Good point. Hadn't considered that.


Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Gnome with pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Go tatoooed sorcerer and take your focus in evocation....take feats like dazing spell and spell penetration....take improved familiar at 7th level and get him some wands to UMD for added blasts goodness....viola.
Haha, this is actually kind of interesting. Been researching it since I read this.
It is pretty darn fun...alternately you can back off the blasting a tiny bit and take the Fey Sylvan bloodline and pick up an animal companion to fight for you on the front lines while you blast from the back....need to take boon companion at third though.

I have a question for you, Lazurin. the Feat Improved Familiar says; "This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.". Since you get the familiar at level 1 does that still fulfill the "Ability to acquire a new familiar" Prerequisite?

The wording gets me occasionally on some of these descriptions.

It just refers to the fact that a) you need to be a class that can get one. And B) if you dismiss your first one, you have to wait a week to get a new one.
This build idea really intrigues me. Seems like a blast. Looking over the improved familiar table, any particularly notable companions? I'm assuming it needs hands in order to use a magical device? lol

Yeah...hands are the key. I think the pseudo dragon best fits the flavor of things....but the Mephits work, as does the imp, and a few others. I really encourage using something that flies for its own safety.

Until you get to the level where you can get this up and running I recommend the Compy or the Green Sting scorpion as they give you initiative bonuses...also cool side effect of tattooed sorc. Is you can store them as tattoos on your body...


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LazarX wrote:
First Rule of Sorcerers. You're not a wizard.Don't be fooled by the simmilar saves, BAB, hit dice, and spell list. Some sorcerer players try to ape being a wizard by taking the Arcane Bloodline, but you're still not a wizard. A wizard changes his build daily with his spell selection, you don't have that freedom. A sorcerer is a magical person best built around a theme. The goal is to then work that theme into something awesome.

This is pretty much awful advice. Pigeon holing yourself into a theme is a recipe for disaster. The first rule of sorcerers is that you should be able to cover multiple situations with very careful spell selection. Absolutely avoid redundancy in your spells.

For example, the "themed" fire based sorcerer probably has Burning Hands, Scorching Ray and Fireball as spells known. This is almost entirely unnecessary. Your spells are your life blood, pick them carefully.

When picking spells you want a range of spells which target each save, ideally single and multi target, you want some defensive options, some no save offence and some utility. Obviously you cannot have all of that at level 1 but as you advance you will open up options. Dont forget wands and scrolls, many spells dont need to be on your known list. A Wand of Shield for example does pretty much everything actually knowing the spell does.

The second rule of sorcerers os that you shall be either Human or Half Elf. The Favoured Class Bonus giving you extra spells known is more powerful than anything you will get from anywhere else. Aasimar may be able to get it with Scion of Humanity as well.

The third rule of sorcerers is pick your bloodline with care. Most of them are awful with terrible limited abilities and a mass of crappy touch attacks or boosts to melee rubbish. There are several stand out choices. Arcane gives you beneficial stuff with every single option, Infernal and Fey both allow you to increase many important save DC's, Serpentine lets you mind control animals and magical beasts, Sylvan gives you an animal companion. Crossblooded Orc/Draconic gives you a major damage bonus but at a heavy cost.

The fourth rule of sorcerers is, if blasting or controlling, pump your DC's as high as you can. Save or Suck and blasts require the enemy to fail saves. Arcane, Fey and Infernal are all good at increasing these.

Here is my sample level 10 Arcane Sage Sorcerer spell list. He is using the Human FCB every level from 4 onwards and is getting two extra spells known from New Arcana due to a Robe of Arcane Heritage. He has taken Expanded Arcana once.

Level 5: Hungry Pit, Hold Monster
Level 4: Dimension Door, Elemental Body I, Greater Invisibility, Emergency Force Sphere, Confusion
Level 3: Aqueous Orb, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Haste, Stinking Cloud, Suggestion, Paragon Surge
Level 2: Command Undead, Blindness, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Pilfering Hand, Resist Energy
Level 1: Charm Person, Grease, Identify, Liberating Command, Mage Armour, Magic Missile, Protection from Evil, Silent Image
Level 0: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation

This character has no immediately discernable theme unless it is have as many spells on a sorcerer as possible. Note he can access any Wizard spell of level 5 or lower with Paragon Surge for Expanded Arcana (you can take it multiple times). What he does have is this:

Offence: Direct battlefield control targeting all three defences.
Fortitude: Blindness, Stinking Cloud
Reflex: Grease, Hungry Pit, Aqueous Orb, Fireball is there mostly for swarms
Will: Silent Image, Glitterdust, Suggestion, Confusion, Hold Monster

Non save: Haste for the rest of the party, Pilfering hand for stealing Holy Symbols, Spell Component pouches or disarming people, Command Undead for mindless undead

Defence: Prot Evil for the party to negate mind control, Dispel Magic, Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Resist Energy, Daylight (PFS has loads of deeper darkness), Liberating Command to get people out of grapples and the big one Emergency Force Sphere

Utility: Party transportation with Dimension Door, scouting with Elemental Body I either in the air as an air elemental or through the ground as an earth elemental, Charm Person and Suggestion for social situations and to back up his +26 diplomacy

His current feats are:

Eschew Materials
Improved Initiative
Expanded Arcana
Additional Traits
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Persistent Spell

Additional Traits is a bit of an indulgence to account for PFS where high skills is important.


Mega Matt wrote:
Haha, it's funny you mention this. I actually created a sorcerer just a few days ago and play tested it. It was a mess! Lol, I tried to do way too much. I went with the Sage bloodline out of Ultimate Magic so that I could get more skill points . . . that was my first bad idea, lol. That test build was an elf with Breadth of Experience, I felt this was also a bad decision because I couldn't hit anything with the lack of feats.

The Sage Bloodline is incredibly potent, one of the best available. Int is a far stronger casting stat than Charisma and you can remain extremely effective at Bluff and Diplomacy with the Student of Philosophy Trait.

Your mistake had nothing to do with the Bloodline and everything to do with being an elf. Be a Human or Half Elf, have access to all of the spells. As half elf you also get Paragon Surge for access to everything.

I am not sure why you complain about a lack of feats or hitting things. No bloodlines give you additional feats over the base ones all sorcerers give. As for hitting thing, you shouldn't be making attack rolls as a sorcerer except for the occasional touch attack and elves are better at those given the racial bonus to Dex.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Are ranged touch attacks, like Ray of Frost/Acid Splash, affected by precise shot and point blank shot?
Yes, but as Touch Attacks that's usually unnecessary as you go up in level.

This is true BUT you will often be facing a -8 penalty to your ranged touch attack. -4 for shooting into melee, -4 for cover provided by your allies in melee. Neither are a good reason to ever take Precise or Point Blank Shot although AP's and PFS adventures seem to love to give them to their casters.

Liberty's Edge

andreww wrote:
Mega Matt wrote:
Haha, it's funny you mention this. I actually created a sorcerer just a few days ago and play tested it. It was a mess! Lol, I tried to do way too much. I went with the Sage bloodline out of Ultimate Magic so that I could get more skill points . . . that was my first bad idea, lol. That test build was an elf with Breadth of Experience, I felt this was also a bad decision because I couldn't hit anything with the lack of feats.

The Sage Bloodline is incredibly potent, one of the best available. Int is a far stronger casting stat than Charisma and you can remain extremely effective at Bluff and Diplomacy with the Student of Philosophy Trait.

Your mistake had nothing to do with the Bloodline and everything to do with being an elf. Be a Human or Half Elf, have access to all of the spells. As half elf you also get Paragon Surge for access to everything.

I am not sure why you complain about a lack of feats or hitting things. No bloodlines give you additional feats over the base ones all sorcerers give. As for hitting thing, you shouldn't be making attack rolls as a sorcerer except for the occasional touch attack and elves are better at those given the racial bonus to Dex.

Right, my mistakes stem mostly from my own ignorance of the class and mechanics. There's a lot of information to process for someone relatively new. Like I said, I've only ever played a Face-Rolling Fighter in Society and that's only level 5.

I don't yet own all of the books: I have Ultimate Combat, Advanced Players Guide & the Core Rule Book so far. Other than that I have to rely mainly on Paizo's Site and d20pfsrd until I purchase the other books.

When I mentioned the lack of feats and "hitting" things I was referring to precise shot and point blank shot. Basically, I was beating myself up for taking Breadth of Experience over another feat that could help me a bit more in combat. In reality I was just not in the right mindset as it seems like you and a couple others pointed out I really don't need those feats anyway.

Liberty's Edge

andreww wrote:
LazarX wrote:
First Rule of Sorcerers. You're not a wizard.Don't be fooled by the simmilar saves, BAB, hit dice, and spell list. Some sorcerer players try to ape being a wizard by taking the Arcane Bloodline, but you're still not a wizard. A wizard changes his build daily with his spell selection, you don't have that freedom. A sorcerer is a magical person best built around a theme. The goal is to then work that theme into something awesome.

This is pretty much awful advice. Pigeon holing yourself into a theme is a recipe for disaster. The first rule of sorcerers is that you should be able to cover multiple situations with very careful spell selection. Absolutely avoid redundancy in your spells.

For example, the "themed" fire based sorcerer probably has Burning Hands, Scorching Ray and Fireball as spells known. This is almost entirely unnecessary. Your spells are your life blood, pick them carefully.

When picking spells you want a range of spells which target each save, ideally single and multi target, you want some defensive options, some no save offence and some utility. Obviously you cannot have all of that at level 1 but as you advance you will open up options. Dont forget wands and scrolls, many spells dont need to be on your known list. A Wand of Shield for example does pretty much everything actually knowing the spell does.

The second rule of sorcerers os that you shall be either Human or Half Elf. The Favoured Class Bonus giving you extra spells known is more powerful than anything you will get from anywhere else. Aasimar may be able to get it with Scion of Humanity as well.

The third rule of sorcerers is pick your bloodline with care. Most of them are awful with terrible limited abilities and a mass of crappy touch attacks or boosts to melee rubbish. There are several stand out choices. Arcane gives you beneficial stuff with every single option, Infernal and Fey both allow you to increase many important save DC's, Serpentine lets you mind control...

I'm finding a few different references regarding "Paragon Surge" and I don't really understand it.

Also, quick question regarding the Favored Class option on Humans. It reads; "Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast.", I take that to mean this: if my highest available spell level is 3rd level, when I level up and take the favored class option I will be allowed to learn a single new 0th, 1st OR 2nd level spell? Is that right? It seems self explanatory but I wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand it.

Edit: I think I understand Paragon Surge now. That seems pretty good actually. I think I like that more than the human's favored class option. I can use Paragon Surge to adapt to situations. that's pretty nice.

Liberty's Edge

Hey Guys!!

So, I've decided I'm going to stick with my original build idea and just tweak it.

I am going Human for the bonus feat, extra skill point & most of all, the favored class option. I'm going to stay Sage (I like having more skills/level).

we are doing a 25 point build and my ability scores will be as follows:

STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 18 (after racial)
WIS: 12
CHA: 14

so far the build will net me 7 skill points per level (important to me), 1 extra spell known/level, a bonus feat and all the goodness of the sage/arcane bloodline and all the normal sorcerer goodies. I went with a 14 CHA because I still want a decent Diplomacy/Bluff check, among a couple other things.

I am just hung up on my feats & traits now . . .


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Welcome to the world of magic!

Did you still want to focus on blasting? How do you see you sorcerer acting in combat?

Recommend Tattooed (Varisian) Sorcerer archetype if it is available.

Feats: Spell Focus (chosen school) is recommended. Bonus feat may be Spell Specialization if you still want that blasting focus.

If you go blaster, spell specialization and Tattooed Sorcerer will grant an effective +3 caster level with main spell and + 1 caster level with your chosen school. Plus every even level you can change your Spell Specialization.

What traits will you be using? For blaster Wayang Spellhunter or Magical Lineage ( or both as the benefits stack) are good options. If so, then pick up Empower Spell at 3rd.

If you to go first, always a good option, then the combat trait Reactionary, plus a feat choice of Improved Initiative and then a familiar such as a greensting scorpion, compsognathus(think lizard/dinosaur) or even a rabbit will grant +2+4+4= +10 init (12 with your dex) which is decent at 1st level. You give up spell specialization till 3rd though. This is more advisable for controller builds as you want to debilitate your foes before they act.

1st level spell suggestions:
0-acid splash, detect magic, light, mage hand
1-color spray, burning hands

Tailor as you see fit, I don't know the particulars of your campaign. And have fun!


Quote:

I'm finding a few different references regarding "Paragon Surge" and I don't really understand it.

Also, quick question regarding the Favored Class option on Humans. It reads; "Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast.", I take that to mean this: if my highest available spell level is 3rd level, when I level up and take the favored class option I will be allowed to learn a single new 0th, 1st OR 2nd level spell? Is that right? It seems self explanatory but I wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand it.

Edit: I think I understand Paragon Surge now. That seems pretty good actually. I think I like that more than the human's favored class option. I can use Paragon Surge to adapt to situations. that's pretty nice.

Yes both of those are right. I would take both to be honest. Paragon Surge is great for out of combat situations as you spontaneously gain access to the best spell that deals with whatever situation you find yourself in. It is not great for in combat as it takes an action so you want a wide range of spells known in order to have an immediate answer when something is trying to eat your face.


Mega Matt wrote:

Hey Guys!!

So, I've decided I'm going to stick with my original build idea and just tweak it.

I am going Human for the bonus feat, extra skill point & most of all, the favored class option. I'm going to stay Sage (I like having more skills/level).

we are doing a 25 point build and my ability scores will be as follows:

STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 18 (after racial)
WIS: 12
CHA: 14

so far the build will net me 7 skill points per level (important to me), 1 extra spell known/level, a bonus feat and all the goodness of the sage/arcane bloodline and all the normal sorcerer goodies. I went with a 14 CHA because I still want a decent Diplomacy/Bluff check, among a couple other things.

I am just hung up on my feats & traits now . . .

If you are sticking with Human then you wont be able to use Paragon Surge without the feat Racial Heritage: Half Elf.

Rather than investing points in Charisma I would be very tempted to just take the trait Student of Philosophy. That allows you to use your Int modifier rather than Charisma for influencing people using Diplomacy or deceiving them using Bluff. Knowledge: Local will often stand in for the Gather Information option on Diplomacy and you will never be feinting in combat so it covers all of the best uses of the skills.

That would then also allow you to grab a base 18 Int which is pretty critical for increasing save DC's. I would also drop Strength to 7, the difference between 8 and 7 is negligible in game terms, becomes less relevant over time and nets you an extra 2 points to generate stats.

On other traits I would highly recommend Magical Lineage. It reduces the metamagic cost on a single spell by 1 level. It wont do anything for you early on but allows access to a powerful metatmicked spell 2 levels earlier than otherwise would be the case.


I see the elemental bloodline mentioned here a couple times.

One problem with that is that you get entirely too many Elemental Body spells as extra spells known.

Kind of the same problem with the draconic bloodline.

Honestly I tend to use the elemental forms mainly just for the movement modes (in practice this pretty much means earth glide from earth elemental).

Plus some of the other bonus spells you get are "nerfed" to only be of your particular elemental type.

The genie bloodlines seem to give you the same features as the elemental, and well just seem to be better for this theme than the corresponding elemental bloodlines.


If you are going with the Sage bloodline I would suggest not focusing on blasting but enchantment. The trait advice to grab magical lineage and "metamagic master" is very good, though using a regional trait from Dragon Empires Primer may have issues. If you get spell focus enchantment, greater spell focus enchantment, spell penetration, greater spell penetration, Heighten Spell and eventually Spell Perfection (Suggestion or Charm Monster) you should have lots of failed saves. I would suggest that you talk to your GM first though, as all enchantments you want to use are going to run into the problem of what exactly "against its nature" means.


Sage works well with blasting if you focus on the Dazing side of things as you dont have to worry about wasting feats on boosting spell damage. In particular School Power is a significant DC increase. A feat spread something like:

1: Spell Focus
3: Greater Spell Focus
5: Persistent Spell
7: Improved Initiative (bloodline)
7: Spell Penetration
9: Dazing Spell
11: Quicken Spell
13: Still Spell (bloodline)
13: Greater Spell Penetration
15: Spell Perfection

Works pretty well for control and daze blasting. If instead you focus on Conjurations and can ignore SR then you can swap out both Spell Penetration feats for an Elemental Spell metamagic (most Conjurations deal acid damage) and something else.

To be fair the feat choices for an Enchantment focused sorcerer could easily be exactly the same just with a different spell focus and probably something like Reach, Piercing or Silent Spell instead of Dazing.

If playing outside of PFS then look at including a crafting feat.

Liberty's Edge

I'm getting a lot of great feedback and suggestions. Thanks all.

I will probably focus more on blasting simply because I've never done a caster before. I'm nervous to take magical lineage because I haven't the faintest idea which spell (regardless of the school I choose) will best suit it. Same goes for Spell Perfection, although I'm sure I'll have a good idea by level 15 for Spell Perfection.

So, if I don't take Magical Lineage, I'm going to take Reactionary. That would still be a good trait choice, I imagine? If I choose Magical Lineage & Evocation as my focus, which spells should I consider tying to the trait?

Also, if I go Evocation and more or less use the suggested Feats Andreww pointed out, what would be my "go-to" blasting/control spells?

I reworked my ability scores per Andreww's suggestion. It made more sense.

STR: 7
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 20 (after racial)
WIS: 12
CHA: 10

Traits: Student of Philosophy (social) & Reactionary (combat) OR Magical Lineage (magic)

Also, I'm torn on my second 1st level feat (since I'm human). I want to take Toughness, Great Fortitude, Cosmopolitan or Additional Traits . . .

Edit: This is a home game and I am able to take Crafting Feats


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Blasting is lots of fun and if you're used to face-smashing, you'll love it.

I might choose a different bloodline feat besides Still Spell. Unless you want to wear armor, it's a corner case that's unlikely to come up. There's kind of slim pickings there, though.

If you're allowed to take crafting feats, Craft Wondrous Items is the one you should take.

Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, and Persistent Spell are all things to increase your save DCs. Along with the choice of Dazing Spell (which is extremely powerful, btw), this implies that your "signature spell" might as well have a save.

Fireball (3rd) is an obvious choice -- it's got a decent area of effect, it's pretty low level, and it's really long range. You'd want to pick up Intensified Spell somewhere in there, though, or you'll be capped at 10d6. Also fire is the most commonly resisted element.

If you want to stick with electricity and cold, you can wait for Ball Lightning (4th), Cone of Cold (5th) or Chain Lightning (6th). Ball Lightning does much less damage than the others (and none, rather than half damage on a save), but the penalty on their saves if they're wearing metal armor is pretty nice especially if your motive is to daze them as much as inflict hp damage. Cone of Cold can be hard to place, though it does cover a large area, and caps out at 15d6. Chain Lightning has a lot of the benefit of Fireball -- long range, multi-target, and it does great damage, but it's pretty high spell level so you'll be waiting a long time for your trait to come into play.

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