What is robe of runes? I haven't had many opportunities to play since I got AP4.
EDIT: Google found it for me.
Reveal this card to add 2 to your intelligence check. You may play another item on this check.
Recharge this card to add a spell of your choice from your discard pile to your hand.
Holy crap, it does eliminate the check, and it only takes one restoration... Anyone can do this if they have the divine trait...
Empty deck
Recharge random card with staff
recharge staff
draw both with restoration
fail recharge check (your deck is now empty)
recharge robe to get back restoration (robe is all that's in your deck)
Recharge random card with staff
recharge staff
Draw robe and random with restoration
fail check (there is now only staff in your deck)
recharge robe to get back restoration
draw both with restoration
fail recharge check (your deck is now empty)
recharge robe to get back restoration (robe is all that's in your deck)
...
Staff of minor healing + robe of runes + Restoration with no cards in deck and you can bring up to your hand all the discard pile, no check just full deck in hand all the time.
I have those 3 cards, and 2/3 of them are in the same deck. ~yikes~ this is getting less than hypothetical.
Chief Technical Officer
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Yep and you can share with another character with the divine trait with the other restoration and staff of minor healing with a merchant ally to give him the robe of runes. Off course, he can bring the robe back to your hand with the other merchant ally.
You got two character playing with their full hand.
...and with no cards whatsoever in their deck, meaning if they take *any* damage they can't prevent, they are dead.
It's theoretical until you tell me you've run a few scenarios actually living on that edge without dying.
Yep and you can share with another character with the divine trait with the other restoration and staff of minor healing with a merchant ally to give him the robe of runes. Off course, he can bring the robe back to your hand with the other merchant ally.
You got two character playing with their full hand.
...and with no cards whatsoever in their deck, meaning if they take *any* damage they can't prevent, they are dead.
It's theoretical until you tell me you've run a few scenarios actually living on that edge without dying.
Sooner or later, they'll get 'ghouled'-- or it's equivalent-- and its back to Brigandoom. The one thing I've noted is that the location decks can deal nasty bane surprises when you least expect them.
well, even if you play "infinite" scrying, depending on how you shuffle, you might only see the same 3 cards over and over again. unlikely, I'll grant, but it is within the realm of possibility.
We'll have some thoughts on this shortly.
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We're changing Restoration.
Here's something like what the new wording on Restoration's first sentence will be:
Display this card and choose a character at your location to add the top 2 cards of his deck to his hand, then discard this card at the end of the turn.
Vic will make the call as to whether that's the exact wording, but it'll be close to that.
I want to go into detail as to why we're making this change. It's a very different reason than all of our changes so far. Previously, the changes have been either because a card's wording was ambivalent, incorrect, or adjusted to the more specific wording of our revised rules. At no time have we changed a card that worked exactly like we wanted it to work.
Restoration works exactly like we want it to work. If you play it like it's a part of a living, breathing character on an adventure, it works great. But Restoration (or rather, a pair of them) also allows you to do something else: intentionally come close to killing yourself so that you can break the game. No one wants you to do that: not your friends, not the game designers, probably not even you. You're taking turn after turn solely to get your engine going and not advancing the game one whit, just so you can end the game in a firestorm of activity on one turn. Since no one wants that, no one is likely to do it.
But leaving the door open to a joyless side-corner exploit and just saying "Don't do that!" isn't our style. We don't want to have a game which anyone can torpedo just because they can. So we're ruling that the card needs to be unavailable to you until the end of your turn, so that it's much harder to get the double-Restoration-Robe of Runes-Augury-whatever engine going. If you're not trying to wreck the game, the card will play almost identically to how it did before. (If you are trying to wreck the game, let us know if you find something else you can do it with, so we can change that too.)
So anyway, thanks to folks for finding this loophole, and for showing us why it needed to be closed off. And as always, thanks for playing our game.
Mike
I think it's a great fix, and I appreciate that you guys put so much effort into this game. I like that you closed this off, I think it's better when stuff like this is officially unallowed, rather than just being taboo.
I would also humbly suggest that this fix be preemptively done to future "draw cards" as well. I'd love to see more of them, even if I don't want to see exploits.
Thanks especially to you for starting us off on this discussion.
Thanks especially to you for starting us off on this discussion.
Glad to help!
Thanks especially to you for starting us off on this discussion.Glad to help!
Orbis... I perhaps misunderstood your intentions when you first starting discussing this exploit. I think perhaps because I enjoy this game so much that I took it a little personally that someone was trying to "BREAK" my beloved game.
As the discussion evolved, my understanding of your intentions cleared up. You weren't just some kid saying "Hey guys, look what I can do!" and instead were saying "Hey guys, here's a possible scenario where people can abuse the game."
So, just like crash tests for new cars, you've got to really try and break something to make it safe and effective. It doesn't matter that I don't ever intend on being IN a crash... just knowing that that car, or the GAME, will survive one. That's priceless.
So some joking around was done earlier about the blessing of Orbis. How about this instead:
Ally: Crash Test Dummy - Discard this card to prevent all damage to "the Spirit of the Game" If a player is abusing a mechanic in the game, declare "DON'T DO THAT!" and said player may NOT do that again until Mike Selinker or Vic Wertz make an official ruling or errata for that card. You may also discard this card to explore your location for a new non-powergaming friend.
OK... never mind... that'll never fit on a card! LOL
I can't wait to see what the question part of the FAQ will be. I suggest:
Someone told me there is a secret combination I can use to play the spell Restoration with some other cards and become almost like a god; able to manipulate decks at will, place all my cards in my hand, and become so powerful as to win the scenario on a single turn. Is that true?
Not anymore. On the spell Restoration change the power to "Display this card and choose a character at your location to add the top 2 cards of his deck to his hand, then discard this card at the end of the turn."
I can't wait to see what the question part of the FAQ will be. I suggest:
Someone told me there is a secret combination I can use to play the spell Restoration with some other cards and become almost like a god; able to manipulate decks at will, place all my cards in my hand, and become so powerful as to win the scenario on a single turn. Is that true?
Not anymore. On the spell Restoration change the power to "Display this card and choose a character at your location to add the top 2 cards of his deck to his hand, then discard this card at the end of the turn."
I'm looking forward to it too, I'm curious how they'll handle it. Is it too egotistical to say that I'd be tickled pink to get accredited in there somewhere?
Oh! Hilarious thought! One of the promo Goblin Songs should reference this whole situation!
I can't wait to see what the question part of the FAQ will be. I suggest:
Someone told me there is a secret combination I can use to play the spell Restoration with some other cards and become almost like a god; able to manipulate decks at will, place all my cards in my hand, and become so powerful as to win the scenario on a single turn. Is that true?
Not anymore. On the spell Restoration change the power to "Display this card and choose a character at your location to add the top 2 cards of his deck to his hand, then discard this card at the end of the turn."
I'm looking forward to it too, I'm curious how they'll handle it. Is it too egotistical to say that I'd be tickled pink to get accredited in there somewhere?
Oh! Hilarious thought! One of the promo Goblin Songs should reference this whole situation!
Maybe the question part could be:
This Orbis Orboros person on the forum says there is a specific combination I can use to play the spell Restoration with some other cards and become almost like a god; able to manipulate decks at will, place all my cards in my hand, and become so powerful as to win the scenario on a single turn. Is that true?
I'm sure Vic will handle it with his usual FAQ unflappableness.
I'm sure Vic will handle it with his usual FAQ unflappableness.
That's a new one. "Unflappableness." XD
I'm sure you're right, he's pretty good at it.
...
OMG, unflappable (if not unflappableness) is actually a word. "Not easily upset."
Learn something every day.
It would not surprise me in any way.
Awesome.
Posted. (And Mike wrote about 2/3 of it...)
It only takes one restoration thanks to the Robe of Runes (I originally thought it took two because I hadn't found the robe yet).
Yes, I know. But it's vastly more effective with two. Anyway, gone now.
Thanks especially to you for starting us off on this discussion.Glad to help!
I just wanted to say that I didn't feel qualified to contribute to this discussion, but I was following it closely. It was very pleasant to see thoughtful discussion and diligent consideration from all parties involved.
Thank you for the improvement in the game, and the entertainment of the thought experiments.