Armor as DR variant rule


Rules Questions


So recently I decided to try and use the variant rules of armor as DR and the wounds and vigor rules. The wounds and vigor was interesting, and went smoother once I myself understood it better... but the armor as DR proved to be polarizing for my players. Some of my group loved it, since it meant it was easier to hit the intended targets, but some of them, despite hitting the target, couldn't do enough damage to overcome the creature's DR and thus were more than a little upset about the whole thing. At the same time, this was a CR 3 encounter, and the creature had 7 natural armor, thus giving it DR 7. For such a low level, that does seem to be inordinately high. I'm not sure if I'm doing the math wrong, somehow, or what... but he also struggled to damage a much lower DR creature as well. He's a ranged paladin (I know, I know) and so he doesn't really do much damage in the first place. He's mostly dex based, and his bow does 1d8+2, so minimum damage is 3, and max is 10. Now, with the default system, his high dex helps him hit, but with the armor as DR it seems that you need less dex to be effective. If I do decide to switch to this system, I'm wondering if I should allow him to reallocate his ability score points... Thoughts? Advice? My other players seemed to really love the changes, and since two of them have natural DR in the default system, I thought it might level the playing field for my poor creatures. As it is, the group tends to shred everything I send at them unless I hit them with something that can nearly TPK everyone but the one character.


I see no problem with allowing rebuilds, especially when introducing house rules or variant rules sets.


I think wounds and vigor and armor as DR complement one-another. You might consider adding a margin of success bonus to damage, which will help breaking through DR, as will allowing different damage types to get bonuses or penalties versus armor type. e.g, heavy crossbow (piercing)gets +something against plate armor, or plate armor has less DR against piercing damage such as that from Heavy crossbow than against slashing damage such as from a scimitar.


Well if the paladin smites, he ignores all DR, so that can work sometimes.

Should probably be taking Deadly Aim too.


What if it was easier to kill things(Like, a lot easier, they didn't have much vigor or whatever), that way the armor is the challenge, but once you get past that, it's easier to drop the fleshy creature inside.

Also, it seems that sundering would be a more valid tactic now.

Scarab Sages

If you're going to do armor as DR and have archers, it's critical to also allow some variant on the called shot rules. Because this is working exactly as it should: a bunch of arrows should be bouncing off something with a lot of armor. But then the archer's strategy is to very carefully aim for the thing's eye, or the chink at its elbow, etc. Tack that on, and I think you'll be on to something, because it will give the archer their own fun subsystem.


Duiker wrote:
If you're going to do armor as DR and have archers, it's critical to also allow some variant on the called shot rules. Because this is working exactly as it should: a bunch of arrows should be bouncing off something with a lot of armor. But then the archer's strategy is to very carefully aim for the thing's eye, or the chink at its elbow, etc. Tack that on, and I think you'll be on to something, because it will give the archer their own fun subsystem.

Alternatively, guns.


I'll reply in more detail after some research, but just wanted to quickly say: I don't allow guns.


You can give everybody Power Attack and Deadly Aim for free so that they can do more damage with the cost of to hit.


@Orich Starkhart - Can you explain "margin of success bonus"?

@Vamptastic - None of my players use sunder or anything like that right now, and I was actually hoping to encourage them to do so. We're playing Kingmaker, and so they're going to have to start learning tactics sooner or later.

@Eridan - Giving out free feats isn't going to balance anything. The issue here is most of them are already too strong. We have a Werebear in the group, and he's level 3 wandering around with natural 10 DR/Cold Iron


A scaling +1/2 level damage bonus to all non-spellcasting attacks helps to deal with the DR issue.

If you want casters to get it to, limit it to spells that require a touch or ranged touch attack. For spells like Scorching Ray, where you get multiple rays, allow it for only one of the rays.


LadyBriar wrote:
@Orich Starkhart - Can you explain "margin of success bonus"?

I mean a bonus to damage keyed on the "success" of the hit - the amount by which the attack exceeded the value needed to hit.

A pretty straightforward way to do this is add the difference between the successful attack and the defender's AC to damage dealt. If your paladin attacking an AC 12 defender achieves 18, that's +6 damage.

An idea I've considered exploring is one multiple of weapon damage dice for every five points or so by which the attack exceeds the value needed to hit. If your paladin attacks an AC 12 creature: for an attack total of 12-16, damage is 1d8+2; 17-21 makes 2d8+2; 22-26 makes 3d8+2, and so on.

I haven't played with this suggestion; at the moment it's just an intellectual exercise.


A further thought related to the idea of increasing damage or damage dice proportional to "margin of success": under Armor as DR, STR bonus "to hit" doesn't help the fighter to the extent it can in the conventional AC system against armored (worn or natural) opponents, because the fighter successfully hits with lower scores, but allowing damage to increase with margin of success of a hit restores some of the help.
Example: Sven needed a 16 to hit the guard in chainmail in the AC system; his total was 20 including his strength bonus(3), then he rolls d8, + 3 for his strength, for 8 damage. In the Armor as DR system Sven needs only a 10 to hit the same guard, but his 8 damage would be reduced to 2 by the Armor's DR. With the suggestion of accounting for the level of success, With his 20 total attack, Sven gets additional dice to roll or some additional points of damage: and all bonuses to hit still matter due to the increased possible damage.

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