Heavily leaning towards doing this (Stonelord archetype) for my next character and was wondering how this would work in a few ways. Sorry if the questions seem really simple or dumb, but this will be my first attempt at a LG character:
--How would I play LG when interacting with Dwarves or Drow? I was already planning on abandoning the "kill on sight" thing with Dwarves obviously, but how does LG look when interacting with a mortal enemy? How about with other races since, from what I have read, Duergar don't really like any races?
--An idea I had with the character concept was to utilize intimidate in combat. How would this work at LG out of combat? Would a LG character ever use intimidate out of combat or could it make sense contextually?
Any and all info is greatly appreciated!
Remember that your race has no bearing on your personality. Who and what your character likes is ENTIRELY up to you. 'Duergar don't really like any races' is a non-issue; your dude likes what you want him to like.
Remember that alignments are broad categories, not specific personalities. Your character interacts with Dwarves and Drow however you want him to; he might be friendly, he might be gruff, he might be suspicious. It's up to you.
Intimidate has no alignment descriptor, so all that matters is how you use it. Scaring the pants off of someone to stop them from starting a fight or causing some other trouble, or scaring info out of someone, is perfectly fine.
OK, that is helpful. not so much as a "remember" thing as I am still super new to the game though in all honesty. i did really like hte built in animosity between Duergar and Dwarves that I read about though. If I want to keep a lower level of the anti-dwarf feeling, how does that look as LG? I get your point that its broad categories over specific personalities, but I want to keep the whole "we are the true Dwarves, you are surface traitors" vibe with the character. Would it be in fitting with what folks have seen of LG characters before if I decided to still be untrusting of Dwarves and very stand offish in conversations with them while still fitting into a personal code of honor/just action that I have?
If this is your first attempt at LG and you are asking such basic questions, my advice is to say 'don't play either a duergar or a paladin.'
This is because a paladin will lose its powers if you get the roleplaying wrong, even once and a duergar is seen as evil by many other races and you will find it hard to reach the point where your own roleplaying makes a difference to how the character is treated.
Furthermore, there is no reason why a duergar can become a stonelord unless he was brought up by dwarves - so why not play a dwarf? If it's solely for the racial bonuses, then you will still need to discuss them with your GM to check which ones are innate and which are cultural. Duergar don't normally get dwarven weapon proficiencies either.
One good question to ask is what is your paladin's Deity. You're Deity defines your code.
I believe that you can have an in-built mistrust of dwarves and not violate your alignment. To stay good, you don't go out of your way to be cruel to them; but you don't have to be nice to them either.
For example: If there is a dwarf in your party always insisting you're on his watch because you can't sleep soundly when he watches you.
Politely not buying any armor, weapons or items from Dwarf vendors.
Being cool and aloof whenever your character speaks to him making him realize that you're just barely tolerating his presence.
None of these things violate your alignment.
It sounds like an interesting flaw for your character to have. Struggling to do good (or specifically to avoid evil) in your dealings with races you are strongly biased against is an opportunity for making your character stand out a bit and maybe be more real to you.
That complexity is what I was shooting for!
If this is your first attempt at LG and you are asking such basic questions, my advice is to say 'don't play either a duergar or a paladin.'
Or I could, you know, ask questions and learn so I am ready :)
This is because a paladin will lose its powers if you get the roleplaying wrong, even once and a duergar is seen as evil by many other races and you will find it hard to reach the point where your own roleplaying makes a difference to how the character is treated.
I am not min/maxing or trying to mega game or anything. If i lose my powers, I think it will be an interesting development for my character. Besides, isn't how I am treated different than how I respond to that treatment? Will I lose my powers for being treated as being evil (even though I am not)?
Furthermore, there is no reason why a duergar can become a stonelord unless he was brought up by dwarves - so why not play a dwarf? If it's solely for the racial bonuses, then you will still need to discuss them with your GM to check which ones are innate and which are cultural. Duergar don't normally get dwarven weapon proficiencies either.
There is a reason in my backstory. I have already cleared using a Duergar for the archetype and using Dwarven weapons with my GM. We are playing in a version of Golarion that we are tweaking as we go and he is cool with it.
One good question to ask is what is your paladin's Deity. You're Deity defines your code.
Was going for Kols as my deity. Was thinking this could tie into what I have read about Duergar. I want him to be big on honor (although it may look different to people not used to his culture) and never break his word. My belief in Kols is the basis for my backstory...he came to the surface to find some oathbreakers who left his people (not race, the group he was with) to die.
I believe that you can have an in-built mistrust of dwarves and not violate your alignment. To stay good, you don't go out of your way to be cruel to them; but you don't have to be nice to them either.
For example: If there is a dwarf in your party always insisting you're on his watch because you can't sleep soundly when he watches you.
Politely not buying any armor, weapons or items from Dwarf vendors.
Being cool and aloof whenever your character speaks to him making him realize that you're just barely tolerating his presence.
None of these things violate your alignment.
This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. This is very helpful...thanks!
A couple things to keep in mind are that the duergar are an evil race. This does not mean you have to be evil, or that you cannot be a paladin, but it does mean you have rejected many of the attitudes or your race. Duergar for example commonly hold slaves and probably are cruel hard masters. This is probably not something you will be able to keep and remain a paladin.
Playing out the duergar racial prejudices is probably going to be ok as long as you don’t go overboard. You are fine treating surface dwarves with some contempt, but will still deal with them fairly. You may not trust them, but you will not cheat them or betray them. Hatred of the drow is probably not an issue since they are also an evil race, but even vs the drow you will still have to act with honor.
Bad role playing is not going to make your character fall, but bad GMing is another story. What will cause a paladin to fall is knowingly committing an evil act, or breaking the paladin’s code. It is probably a good idea to sit down and have a talk with your GM about what your code is and how he defines it.
Dwarves have traditionally regarded all other races as lesser being. You simply extend this attitude towards non-duergar dwarves. I can see your character being somewhat arrogant and thinking he is better than anyone else. This probably means that when you see something wrong you feel that you need to fix it. Play up the whole with great power come great responsibility angle, but don’t be humble about it.
Excellent advice Mysterious Stranger...thanks so much! I cleared the race/archetype/weapon proficiency with my GM, but we haven't fully talked about it, so I am going to do that before we start the new campaign. This is very very helpful though...I greatly appreciate it!
Duergar paladin? Ouch!
I'm not trying to tell you what class/race combinations you should play, but seriously...that -4 CHA must hurt big time.
Being a Stonelord means I only have one spell/ability (not looking at skills) that uses CHA.
Frankly, A lot of evil races are playable and I've played a tiefling paladin, having similar issues. Unless your character was raised in such a way that they'd not have any sort of prejudice, its going to be an issue.
A Duergar raised on the surface will probably not have been to welcome in a community of surface dwellers, he'd probably have negative opinions against other Duergar and possibly dwarves. He might also resent the specific community he grew up in (humans fi).
A Duergar who lived with his own kind before being either banished, or left on his own accord, will probably still hold the attitudes of his own upbringing. even if he is now working on resolving those.
The drow are particularly interesting here. As obvious servants of evil, worshipping demons and twisting other races in horrible agonizing shapes, a paladin would most assuredly hate them. However he'd also realize that, being an "evil" race himself, everyone could potentially be either redeemable or an outcast themselves.
Depending on the area's he visits, his welcome might be met with ambivalence at best or hostility at its worse. People who understand the difference are probably rather antagonistic. others might simply mistake him for a strange dwarf.
Good luck with whatever you do, properly playing races like this will always be a challenge.
Thanks for the well wishes Diek! The other characters I have played in the several campaigns I am currently in are a bit more cookie cutter, so I wanted something to provide me with a challenge development wise. I think this will be it personally and I look forward to seeing how it plays out!
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I actually played a Duergar Inquisitor.
Duergar society may be "evil", but are extremely lawful.
Duergar society is relatively crime free.
Their outlook on life, is that life is endless toil.
A Duergar who has embraced good, may still hold some of those values.
Likely, they see a day without work, as a day wasted.
Everyone is expected to pull their own weight.
They may not even have that harsh a view of slavery, as they see all those living, as slaves to the endless toil, that is life.