Seoni the Abyssal Sorcerer


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


After quite a few people have posted their characters I did notice I was the only one running Seoni as Abyssal.

It was a near run thing in my mind, the damage protection was superior, I believe, in the Abyssal variety and the ability to sacrifice an Ally for 3 cards may be a game saver.

Whereas the Celestial path gets the ability to bury a card to improve a failed check by 1 *meh*

Yet everyone has gone Celestial? Discuss!


I didn't like the idea of banishing an ally. And what you get to do is draw 3 cards from your character deck. It didn't seem worth the price to me. But maybe that is because I'm too scared of banishing. She her Charisma/Diplomacy should make picking up an ally or two fairly easy.

And I've failed enough checks by 1 that the Celestial power to do so seemed useful enough, though I haven't chosen it yet.

I honestly felt like neither of those powers were really powerful enough to be "the" reason to go with a role. But then there wasn't much knowable difference beyond that in my mind. (Since I have no idea how often she'll be taking which type of damage.) So she was a toss up for me.


Ha! I rarely fail by 1 It always seems to be a gross overkill or I fail catastrophically ( last night a roll of 4, 2, 1, 1, 1 comes to mind )

:)


Yea I agree the fail by 1 seemed weak.. to be honest my Seoni went the other way just because I didn't really expect to necessarily get either of those powers. I'll definitely max out her "fireball" ability and then get the damage reduction before I'd even think about taking either the fail by 1 power or the sacrifice ally power.

Now that you pointed it out - I'm honestly not sure why I didn't go Abyssal just in case we get like 6 more power feats because I guess I do slightly prefer the sacrifice ally power. I probably didn't give it much thought since I doubt we'll get more than 3-4 more feats past getting the role card so it won't matter for me.


It doesn't really matter what you do for Seoni... her powers are nearly identical, sadly. I think the bury for 1 is slightly better though. Especially after removing most basic allies from the box (except, I think I'll always keep Sage/Troubadour/Standard Bearer), there aren't all that many allies I would feel comfortable banishing, and drawing 3 cards isn't always a good thing. It could be useful in some situations, but I can't think of many instances where I would use it. Failing checks by one, on the other hand, happens all the time in my group :P

But, in fairness, I probably won't get that power until pretty late game, if ever. Her other options are nifty enough.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I posted an Abyssal Sorcerer Seoni back on Monday since there is a Seoni in both groups so I am testing both options.

As others have said though, I don't see myself really using either of the powers that often. I also don't like the idea of banishing cards, since it usually means a step down in deck quality.

I haven't got Fortress yet so maybe they'll turn out to be fantastic in the harder scenarios, but on first impressions I'd rather take different power feats.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

As others mentioned, both of Seoni's roles are very similar:

Both get (assuming all powers are checked):


  • Fire- or Acidball +4
  • Recharge Arcane spells and items
  • Pharasma adds d12
  • Reduce Fire damage by 2

Abyssal gets:


  • Reduce Acid and Cold damage by 2
  • Banish an ally to draw 3 cards

Celestial gets:


  • Reduce Electricity damage by 2
  • Everything is a Luckstone

I don't believe we've encountered Electricity, Acid or Cold damage yet, so the extra damage reduction powers are currently equally useful. The real difference in powers lies in the other power.

The abyssal gets a high-cost high-risk low-reward power: You banish an ally the get 3 cards. In my experience, Seoni isn't the type of character who empties her hand during others' turns, so that gives you 2 cards you need to use before you empty your hand. Card drawing in this game isn't as powerful as it is in other games; it makes you more susceptible to damage for minimal benefit.

The celestial gets a medium-cost no-risk medium-reward power: If you were failing a check by 1, more often than not, you'd be down a card anyway, either discarded as damage or banished because it wasn't acquired. The power changes it to a bury in exchange for a success. True, it won't happen all that often, but when it does, it's usually a good idea


3Doubloons wrote:

As others mentioned, both of Seoni's roles are very similar:

Both get (assuming all powers are checked):


  • Fire- or Acidball +4
  • Recharge Arcane spells and items
  • Pharasma adds d12
  • Reduce Fire damage by 2

Abyssal gets:


  • Reduce Acid and Cold damage by 2
  • Banish an ally to draw 3 cards

Celestial gets:


  • Reduce Electricity damage by 2
  • Everything is a Luckstone

I don't believe we've encountered Electricity, Acid or Cold damage yet, so the extra damage reduction powers are currently equally useful. The real difference in powers lies in the other power.

The abyssal gets a high-cost high-risk low-reward power: You banish an ally the get 3 cards. In my experience, Seoni isn't the type of character who empties her hand during others' turns, so that gives you 2 cards you need to use before you empty your hand. Card drawing in this game isn't as powerful as it is in other games; it makes you more susceptible to damage for minimal benefit.

The celestial gets a medium-cost no-risk medium-reward power: If you were failing a check by 1, more often than not, you'd be down a card anyway, either discarded as damage or banished because it wasn't acquired. The power changes it to a bury in exchange for a success. True, it won't happen all that often, but when it does, it's usually a good idea

I like your analysis of the differences. Well thought through


3Doubloons wrote:
I don't believe we've encountered Electricity, Acid or Cold damage yet, so the extra damage reduction powers are currently equally useful.

Through deck 3:

Dorella and Hookmaw Kreeg do some electricity damage.
Lamatar Bayden does some cold damage.
Plague Zombie, Black Fang, and Koruvus do acid damage.

Unless henchman get repeated, Plague Zombie is the only one you might see after taking a role card. But it is still basically about even. And you'd have to assume something is going to do that kind of damage. So it is still basically a push.

I can't remember if any banes from deck 4 do any of these.


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While I don't think either path for Seoni is spectacular, I wanted to stand up for her Celestial Sorcerer power. Being able to succeed on a check where you failed by 1 is really good.

Let's look at some practical examples. Seoni is fighting a which requires a combat check 16 (common number for henchmen in AP 4). Her Arcane is 1d12+6 and she discards a card to add 1d6+3. She will fail this roll roughly 14% of the time. With the ability to add +1, her chance of failure drops roughly 8%. That's a meaningful reduction: her chance of failure dropped by about 40%. And it doesn't just apply to her attack powers, she gets it on ALL of her rolls.

Being able to get a static +1 to all rolls is a great use of a feat. Lini, Seelah and Lem [Virtuoso] can get this, and it is almost always the best use of their feat points. Seoni's power isn't that good, as those other three, mostly because she canonly invest a single point in it. Given the medicore quality of Seoni's feat options at the paragon level, the +1 from Celestial is far and away the best power she gets.


Exactly how are you discarding a card to ADD 1d6+3 with Seoni? Is that some Ally I'm not remembering (or from AP4)?


I assume the point of drawing three cards is to get the rechargeable spells and items that that will let you put up a real fight without ending up in the discard pile. Given the number of villains that are dealing extra damage, this might be really helpful.


kysmartman wrote:
Exactly how are you discarding a card to ADD 1d6+3 with Seoni? Is that some Ally I'm not remembering (or from AP4)?

Her base power. "For your combat check, you may discard a card to roll your Arcane die + 1d6( +1) ( +2) ( +3) ( +4)"

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor

I think people may be thinking of her banishing an ally the wrong way. I think of it this way: She encounters an ally. Seduces them with her Charisma. THEN EXECUTES THEM FOR CARDS! :)

But I still went Celestial.


Russ Taylor wrote:

I think people may be thinking of her banishing an ally the wrong way. I think of it this way: She encounters an ally. Seduces them with her Charisma. THEN EXECUTES THEM FOR CARDS! :)

But I still went Celestial.

Exactly, her high charisma means that allies are often hers for the taking, and not all of them really fit her character deck paradigm at all.


Troymk1 wrote:
Russ Taylor wrote:

I think people may be thinking of her banishing an ally the wrong way. I think of it this way: She encounters an ally. Seduces them with her Charisma. THEN EXECUTES THEM FOR CARDS! :)

But I still went Celestial.

Exactly, her high charisma means that allies are often hers for the taking, and not all of them really fit her character deck paradigm at all.

Emotion :
Sigh/Facepalm

You know the truth and have a great working idea, but you choose the light side. No free cookie for you.


Though I just started playing, evert scenario i end up with a couple extra allys anyways so the overall penalty to sac an ally isnt that great. In return depending on your spell and item layout, all your spells and items recharge, which is much better than being stuck discarding to activate your basic attack. Also a lot of allies recharge as well. Meaning you gain a lot of versitility with only a small amount of net loss + a sacrifice thatif you target right costs you nnothing. Ideally you should be pushing through your deck as a sorcerror because while you have limited versitility you have excellent card retention/recharge and whrn your good damage cards are on the bottom you want them on the top quick.

The card advantage allows you to overkill your rolles.

On the other hand there are very few cards a sorceror wants to see buried. Basically limited to cards that can not be recycled and only have a discard or vury option already, or cards that are useless depending on the situation. Basically its an emergency defensive move which is only usable in rare situations and comes with a moderate high penalty.

Personally as abyssal it would be one of my first power picks and as celesstial one of my last.

My 2 cents :) - sorry for the typos and spelling, typing on a phone is never fun

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