Variant Channeling rules are super confusing...Help!


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So one of my players took up Cleric Variant Channeling (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/ cleric.html) and I'm struggling to understand how it works. There are several threads on this topic and yet amazingly enough I could not find any conclusive answer on any of them.

The variant channeling rules say that the variant affects for Heal only work on Positive Energy, and the variant effects for Harm only work on Negative Energy.

So here are two super-confusing variants that I need help understanding:

Revenge/Vengeance: Heal—This works like a standard channel (not halved). Harm—Creatures gain a channel penalty on attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

Does that mean this variant is completely useless for positive energy channel characters, since it changes nothing for them? Why even list a Heal effect then?

Undeath: Heal—This works like a standard channel (not halved). Harm—The healing effect is enhanced for undead creatures and those with negative energy affinity.

Again, useless for positive energy channelers...but ALSO almost totally useless for negative energy channelers? You cannot channel negative energy to harm undead...this would seem like something that would be in the "Heal" part.

Please help me to understand how this stuff works!


Both are useless for positive energy channeling.

Undeath is the only weird one, but it's pretty obvious from the way it's spelled out that it affects negative energy used to heal undead.


You're understanding that Good Aligned (or neutral clerics of good deities or neutral clerics of neutral deities that choose to channel positive energy) can only use the Heal portion of Variant Channeling and that Evil aligned (or neutral clerics of evil gods or neutral clerics of neutral deities that choose to channel negative nergy) can only use the Harm portion of Variant Channeling is correct.

The heal variants also only happen when you try to heal creature with positive energy and the harm variants only happen when you try to harm creatures with negative energy.

This does make some of them useless.

Further, for many of the variants there does not exist cannonical gods of both good and evil alignments.

One such case I know off the top of my head is Ale/Wine, of which only Cayden Cailean (a good deity) possesses those portfolios. So having a harm version is worhtless as their is no evil golarion deity to provide this. It could be useful if you create homebrewed deities though.


Quote:
A neutral cleric of a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy.

If you don't worship a particular deity, channel negative energy and you take the ale/wine domain, you can choose to the harm effect.


Quote:

An iconic ability of clerics is their power to channel positive or negative energy, whether for healing, for damage, or to turn or command the undead. However, given the great variety of deities and their divine portfolios, it naturally follows that some deities would endow their mortal servants with the power to channel energies in other ways that more closely mirror their particular focus. The following categories are examples of alternative channeling abilities based on the nature of a deity's power; for example, a fire deity's negative energy channeling may deal fire damage as part of or instead of the damage from channeling.

When you create a cleric character, decide whether she uses the standard form of channel energy or a variant presented here based on one aspect of her deity's portfolio. Once this choice is made, it cannot be altered. Variant channeling has the same area of effect, save DCs, uses per day, and other rules relating to channeling energy. Feats and abilities that modify or present alternative uses for channeled energy (such as Command Undead and Turn Undead) work normally with these variant channeling abilities.

Without a deity it sure doesn't sound like you can access variant channeling because variant channeling is based on deity portfolios. Portfolios are specific to deities, a cleric who doesn't worship a deity would not be able to access any portfolio or their variant channel.

So no, you're cleric without a deity doesn't get access to any variant channeling.

*Also please note this is about deity portfolios, not domains. They are two different things. Cleric's don't get portfolios, only gods do.

For instance, Cayden Cailean has the domains of Chaos, Charm, Good, Liberation, Strength, and Travel. While he has the portfolios of Freedom, Ale, Wine, and Bravery.


You're right. Missed the part about it being based on your deity's portfolio.

However:

Quote:
If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval).

I'd suggest that your spiritual inclinations and abilities can be expressed as/by portfolios.

RAW, you're 100% correct. In practice, picking your domains requires GM approval, though, so it should follow that a thematic selection of portfolio aspects could/should be applied when your spelling out your individual faith.

Still, as with many additions beyond the core rulebook, variant channeling was not thoroughly vetted to make sure it all works with the core rules.


Ranax wrote:

You're right. Missed the part about it being based on your deity's portfolio.

However:

Quote:
If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval).

I'd suggest that your spiritual inclinations and abilities can be expressed as/by portfolios.

RAW, you're 100% correct. In practice, picking your domains requires GM approval, though, so it should follow that a thematic selection of portfolio aspects could/should be applied when your spelling out your individual faith.

Still, as with many additions beyond the core rulebook, variant channeling was not thoroughly vetted to make sure it all works with the core rules.

I would consider it, but honestly I think it's a bonuses for those who choose to be saddled with a set of domains to choose from rather than being able to choose potentially any domains. And in any event it would only even make sense if your domains were related to the portfolio in the first place. Which again means portfolios like Ale/Wine are left out in the cold because no domain is more than tangentially similiar IMO.

You're very right that this particular optional rule set was not well tested or vetted before printing.


The is the feat "Versatile Channeler" which allow you to channel both positive and negative energy.


WaterDragon wrote:
The is the feat "Versatile Channeler" which allow you to channel both positive and negative energy.

There are still problems because Versatile Channeler requires you to be a neutral cleric of a neutral deity (both along good/evil axis, presumably) and that would still leave a lot of portfolios out in the cold I think.


Ranax wrote:

Both are useless for positive energy channeling.

Undeath is the only weird one, but it's pretty obvious from the way it's spelled out that it affects negative energy used to heal undead.

This.

By RAW you could argue undeath does nothing because of poor wording. I agree with Ranax RAI is for channeling to heal undead (or those with negative energy affinity). Ironically, this variant channeling makes the undead lord the strongest channeler to heal in the game, even beating out Aasimar Life Oraacles.


After reading through it, it seems as though the verbiage of "heal" and "harm" should have been "positive" and "negative." They very clearly have effects like "you heal more" under "harm," even though that seems to make no sense.


So noone is realizing you harm undead with channel positive and harm living with negative channel? You also heal undead with negative or living with positive? Harm doesn't mean negative channelling and heal doesn't mean positive this is all about whether you are trying to heal or hurt the targets


Gillam88 wrote:
So noone is realizing you harm undead with channel positive and harm living with negative channel? You also heal undead with negative or living with positive? Harm doesn't mean negative channelling and heal doesn't mean positive this is all about whether you are trying to heal or hurt the targets

you're responding to someone that posted 6 years ago. It's unlikely they will see your post at this point.


If you're looking for people that like to channel negative energy I might have some contacts....

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