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Psionics does get some absolutely fantastic Temporary HP. And um... they can uh... Divert Teleportation effects... and um... Affinity Field is kinda weird but unique... Fusion as well and Solicit Psicrystal can do some neat stuff with Concentration powers...but none of these are quite as awesome as "ANGELIC HOARDS COME FORTH!"
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Psionics does get some absolutely fantastic Temporary HP. And um... they can uh... Divert Teleportation effects... and um... Affinity Field is kinda weird but unique... Fusion as well and Solicit Psicrystal can do some neat stuff with Concentration powers...but none of these are quite as awesome as "ANGELIC HOARDS COME FORTH!"
Wait, the wizards can summon angelic MONEY?
(I'm sorry, it was too easy)
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As for those first level slots, sure you aren't using them for burning hands - because blasting with them is a poor choice for spells at any level. But grease? That's ALWAYS useful at any level. So is mage armor, and shield, and protection from evil and many other spells.
There are a lot of low level spells that are just as useful at high level as low level. A great many buff spells fall into this category.
There is a subset of such spells (of which protection from evil is probably the poster child example) that are actually more useful to a higher level character than a lower level one, which is strange design, that the power of a spell increase just as the investment that it represents decreases.
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Psionics does get some absolutely fantastic Temporary HP. And um... they can uh... Divert Teleportation effects... and um... Affinity Field is kinda weird but unique... Fusion as well and Solicit Psicrystal can do some neat stuff with Concentration powers...but none of these are quite as awesome as "ANGELIC HOARDS COME FORTH!"Wait, the wizards can summon angelic MONEY?
(I'm sorry, it was too easy)
That's what I get for just using the spellcheck without double-checking XD, but yes... Wizards can totally summon Angelic money... totally.
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That's what I get for just using the spellcheck without double-checking XD, but yes... Wizards can totally summon Angelic money... totally.Psionics does get some absolutely fantastic Temporary HP. And um... they can uh... Divert Teleportation effects... and um... Affinity Field is kinda weird but unique... Fusion as well and Solicit Psicrystal can do some neat stuff with Concentration powers...but none of these are quite as awesome as "ANGELIC HOARDS COME FORTH!"Wait, the wizards can summon angelic MONEY?
(I'm sorry, it was too easy)
Gate + Death = ANGELIC HOARDS!!!
Well, I'm gratified to see that Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit live on.
Even if the show no longer does D:
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The typical player who wants psionics is is drooling looking at overchannel and how they can burn all the power points at once.This is not true.
The typical player who wants psionics likes the flavor and feel of brain powers.
This is no different from a set of players liking the flavor and feel of wizardin'.
I'm not the typical player who wants psionics personally (and obviously neither is Nathanael) but I must say, I'm a lot more willing to take Mikaze's word for it than Nathanael's.
I tend to think that if someone wants something, they are more often than not a better authority on why they want that thing, than a completely unrelated person who just isn't into it is. That's a part of assuming good faith in conversation.
Also, I'm totally willing to want psionics on behalf of Mikaze.
Moar psionics plz!
(also ascetic monks)
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Explosive Runes does work like that Nathanael. If you play it any other way, you are house ruling it.Actually, no. " The explosive runes detonate when read,..." Not "The explosive runes detonate when seen" or "The explosive runes detonate when viewed" Or "The explosive runes detonate when perceived.. "
You have to, actually, you know... "READ" them. Which is a deliberate action.
In order for the spell to work like Anzyr sez, it would have to be "Hmm, that skeleton has a note on him, I wonder what it says..." Boom! "Hmm, that next skeleton also has a note on him, I wonder what it says..." BOOM! "Gosh, yet another note on a skeleton, better read that one too..." Boom! and so forth.
My group blackmailed me into replying to this.
Basically, that they have to be read does not negate using them offensively; I know because I have used them offensively to kill a BBEG before.
Using explosive runes offensively is a matter of trickery; basically, you trick your opponent into reading something with ER cast on it. If you have enough items with ER cast on them within explosion range of the guy who sets the spell off, the resulting chain reaction is easily enough to kill them.
Which is why every DM I know in real life bans me from using ER on scrolls. Because I will scribe it on every scroll I can, teach the party how to read the scrolls properly, and then hand them to the BBEG and tell the BBEG the info they need is on one scroll the first chance I get.
It's a very cheap trick, but cheap tricks are effective tricks. Cheap tricks are also how some of those underpowered, often-ignored low-level spells end up being so useful at high levels.
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Honestly, Ego Whip is less intimidating if your buying a Ring of Inner Fortitude like you damn well should be.
Honestly, Ego Whip is less intimidating if your buying a Ring of Inner Fortitude like you damn well should be.
Didn't want to be the guy to bring that up. Glad at least someone did, though they are inevitably going to try saying it "doesn't count because (insert reason here)" or some such nonsense.
I think it's funny how a single item can almost negate the only thing that keeps getting brought up as being 'over-powered' in psionics, but no such items exists to counter-act the shenanigans that Wizards or Clerics can do to destroy campaigns.
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Ya, Ring of Inner Fortitude is just fantastic at what it does. Really just all around good stuff even if Ego Whip doesn't wake you up with night terrors. I do love using Ego Whip though because I love come upon with ego based attack phrases to use with it. "All the other dragon's have shinier scales." is a personal favorite.
What I like most about Ego Whip is that it is nonviolent.
Don't get me wrong, you leave your victim a drooling vegetable, but you can still tie him up and ask him questions. It's like a crappier version of Sleep Hex.
The typical player who wants psionics is is drooling looking at overchannel and how they can burn all the power points at once.This is not true.
The typical player who wants psionics likes the flavor and feel of brain powers.
This is no different from a set of players liking the flavor and feel of wizardin'.
I'm not the typical player who wants psionics personally (and obviously neither is Nathanael) but I must say, I'm a lot more willing to take Mikaze's word for it than Nathanael's.
I tend to think that if someone wants something, they are more often than not a better authority on why they want that thing, than a completely unrelated person who just isn't into it is. That's a part of assuming good faith in conversation.
Also, I'm totally willing to want psionics on behalf of Mikaze.
Moar psionics plz!
(also ascetic monks)
Ok, let me rephrase that-- all four times four separate games in Have played or DMed in have pushed for an been allowed to use Psionics its been because they have found ways to abuse it and it has always led to bad campaigns.
The only exception was a Dark Sun game where everything was psionic.
Ya, remember Psionics has a higher optimization floor then other classes, so its entirely possible that the people you play with aren't capable of that reaching that floor with a non-psionic class. I recommend you suggest they take a look at some of the helpful guides on here, as it should help improve their optimization floors and thus make psionics seem more balanced in your campaigns Nathanael Love.
Ya, remember Psionics has a higher optimization floor then other classes, so its entirely possible that the people you play with aren't capable of that reaching that floor with a non-psionic class. I recommend you suggest they take a look at some of the helpful guides on here, as it should help improve their optimization floors and thus make psionics seem more balanced in your campaigns Nathanael Love.
Can you people seriously just stop calling me a bad player? Seriously its not making psionics look more balanced for you to tell me my groups suck and the way we play suck and we all suck at the game and need to read guides for power gaming so we can allow psionics into or games.
Honestly, if to keep up with psionics anyone ever needs to read a power gaming guide then maybe its an indication that there is the potential for abuse in the system?
If the answer is that Psionics is not overpowered in a group of intense power-gamers then the answer is also that in the way a lot of people play the game it IS overpowered. . .
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No, the answer is that there are few weak options to take in psionics then other things. That doesn't mean you or your friends are bad, you might just like weak options. But taking lots of weak options doesn't make the class that has few weak options to strong, it just means weak options are weak.
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My experiences with Psionics have mostly been at lower play, but I have also done hypotheticals for higher levels.
At lower levels, Psionics have a much stronger Start then Vancian casters. They can, if you look into their base system enough, attempt to manifest their powers with the equivilant of Silent and Still, because they can suppress their Displays, giving enemies no hint of their castings, at level 1, with just Concentrations. Their use of 1 PP lvl 1 powers around lvls 3, and 4, where they can pull off +12 casts per day also lets them keep Powers like Force Screen (Shield), and Inertial Armor (Mage Armor) going many more times in a day.
Essentially, they come out as more versatile at Lower lvls, placing a Magical System beside the Martial Classes for Low Level Supremacy.
Psionic Focus, and all of it's feats and related effects is the biggest criminal of this; leading to auto successes on COncentration checks when needed, or even At-will wall running at lvl 1.
However, as they progress, the costs to keep par become much heavier for Psionics vs Magic.
Psionics can only apply 1-2 Metapsionics (and the 2 is with Feat investment), and it requires expending focus, that previous, yet turn wasting recharge tool.
Their powers become simple, compared to high level Spells like PLanar Binding, or Breathe of Life.
Further more, the arguments regarding: Too much damage with low level powers!!! The thing is, Augmenting a low level power at end game is likely the worst thing you can waste your points on.
Dissipating touch is a Shocking Grasp mirror with no damage type (immediately better), but it comes with a later game catch. At 5th, the Shocking grasp deals 5d6 damage with the resources of a lvl 1 spell. Dissipating Touch required the resources of a 3rd lvl Power, to match up. No increase in complexity, or conditions; merely to match the bar.
This Points for Damage comparison and making Lower lvl powers raise to match high lvl spells is the big end game issue for Psionics. The Psion will have somewhere around 500 PP to spend. The Wizard, if you converted all of his damage dice generated from spells he casts, Shocking grasp dealing 5d6 becomes with 5 Pp in this example), gets over 1200 Pp, by the way his powers are functioning.
At the end of the day, the Psion begins to run out of steam, as the Wizard is still prepared to go. Hell, there's even an Order of the Stick Comic strip that emphasizes this fact.
I love Psionics for it's ability to feel like you are the focused master of perhaps One or Two concepts of psionic power, to get that kinda Super Hero, X-men feeling: I've got a select, but versatile super power, and rely on no bull s%@%'s, or mcguffins to make it work.
But, if I want to rule the world with my might, I'll choose magic.
The point is that unless you don't unlike Sorcerer's in your games, you should be fine to use Psionics, since their optimization ceiling doesn't go above that. They are just a lot harder to mess up then a Sorcerer. I mean you can pick a bunch of useless spells on Sorcerer, but again that doesn't mean the Sorcerer is weak, just that weak options are weak.
psionics aren't as overpowered as magic, and are a lot easier for a newbie to manage.
the issue with magic, is the amount of plot ruining effects it contains, and the most powerful casters, can change which plot killers they use on a daily basis. wizards have nasty plot killers, but clerics have all the same plot killing options, and they can fight like a fighter too. in fact, the only thing that exists to keep the cleric in check, is a lack of class features and arbritrary alignment restrictions, thing is, alignment shouldn't be a means to balance classes nor should fluff in general.
i rate clerics stronger than wizards because they can do anything a wizard can, plus they can fight and heal very well. before you say clerics are limited by their domains, the domains add a lot of powerful plot killers to their spell list. they get their choice of 2 sets of potential themed plot killers. plus, they are a feat away from heavy armor, and a lot of the gods offer amazing martial or exotic weapons.
Ok, let me rephrase that-- all four times four separate games in Have played or DMed in have pushed for an been allowed to use Psionics its been because they have found ways to abuse it and it has always led to bad campaigns.
The only exception was a Dark Sun game where everything was psionic.
Was this all 3.0 or 3.5? Because 2.0 and lower don't count.
Give specifics not generalitys.