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Liberty's Edge

A shame really. To abandon all that work artistry and dedication, only to almost instantly make it obsolete with a new system. Can't buy anything right now as in a few month's time.. it will be old news and a product of the past.

Liberty's Edge

A million references to the play test and not one link I can click on to download it? Where exactly is the link to download. I must be blind.

Liberty's Edge

I know I 'm looking forward to this. Psychic is NOT Psionic. clearly as time has gone on in this thread others have begun to understand this. a highly mature theme, but also very hip with Psychic stuff. I know my players are also excited about this.

Liberty's Edge

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I am pretty old school as a GM agreeing with many who posted concerns regarding psionics... that was until a few weeks ago. I purchased Ultimate Psionics (PDF 19.99) thinking it might be fun to incorporate them into my game for the first time ever. I have been gaming through edition after edition since 1977 and finally landed on Pathfinder seven years ago. While I have enjoyed many pathfinder adventure paths, I grew tired of what I considered to be pretty mundane and similar Adventure Paths which did not excite the imagination or drive the game forward. While I think they are well written, they often felt disjointed (as they were written by several different authors all with subtle differences in their perception of how it was all supposed to go. This problem has been inherent since as far back as RORL (who can forget the second module and the vast differences it had to the entire rest of the story). Psionics has been out there for a time now and if you have not picked up this book you are missing out. I simply dropped magic all together which is absolutely possible. After taking time to read the rules and giving it an honest assessment, I have come to the conclusion that this product (I kid you not) has rivaled the best I have seen in many years come out. I realize it was written by a 3rd party publisher but if you think it is going away, I suggest you read through the rulebook at least once before discounting it. Psionic adventures are coming and Paizo has the unique opportunity to get a bigger jump on their chief rival by embracing it rather than discounting it. I have not seen many low level adventures that are less than mundane or mid level adventures written recently for anything other than Pathfinder Society, which nobody I know involves themselves with. Although the Adventure path has been a staple of Paizo since the beginning, recent additions to the game which include Mythic are not big attention grabbers from many I know either and it is more than likely destined to flop. The psionic book is high on originality, does not change the game a single whit and has taken a few years to gather momentum and what's more, my players all love it (older players who never played psionics previously). I have no doubt many will disagree with my findings, but, it will be us who are purchasing the game. Time for fresh ideas.

Liberty's Edge

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just purchase a book filled with monsters all with a simimlar theme? IE: Outer Planes, Desert, Underwater, Mythic, Arthurian, Wilderness, Fey, Lovecraftian, etc, etc (list is endless). I would know that this is a monster manual I would use all the creatures in, Paizo would make more money, I would use more than eight creatures in my games in the book I purchased, those running specific campaigns would have their needs met. At present I need to search through each book to find a specific creature (ie Gem Dragon) or whatever... now let me see, which one was that in again? Oh, hand me that Dragon Beastiary so I can pull out that creature. It is time to reimagine some of the low level challenges, I am going to be sick if I have to use another, skeleton, Zombie, Kobold, Orc or Goblin for that new party challenge.

The haunts idea was classic and original and has MAJOR possibility for continued advncement. They could be used like traps and challenges which did not have a horror theme and could really break the tired but reliable Beastiary. The guy which came up with that idea was thinking outside the box and really hit on something bigger than many realize that could make the game go in so many really interesting directions. The other aspect of the game which has was really advanced and has major uses even outside what it was used for was the the kingdom making rules which could also be useful beyond their current use. So many great ideas but not being used to their fullest. Naturally the advntures they were attached to were great sellers but it reminds me of having a rocket ship you are only using to make quick trips to the grocery store with, as if we are unwilling to use great ideas to the fullest. Legendary creatures would be nice, but I havn't had a single character in any game I have ever run advance far enough to ever really fight one of those. I and my players have always felt that starting a character higher than 1st level was cheating the system or lessening their achievements somehow. I enjoy reading adventures with high level characters and dreaming of the day I actually had a single party member in over thirty years of playing the various versions of this game get that high. With the million dice rolled at the table the odds are remote at best for survival. The very reason we all play and love Pathfinder is exactly because it most closely represents the game as it has been played since the late seventies. You can absolutely never make everyone happy from the old beat up gamer to the rug rat and everyone inbetween will have their own best interest in mind. So instead of giving us a choice of monsters inside the Beastiary make those same Beastiaries exclusive and give us a choice of which ones we might like to purchase. IE... woodlands Beastiary might have enough monsters inside to run an exclusive wilderness campaign from 1st to 20 level.. but if you wanted to add underwater stuff or whatever, you would need the other Beastiary. It sure takes away the mess of trying to make everyone happy with a single book.

Keep it up Pathfinder don't be afraid to push the bubble, but don't get to cocky either, the game will survive you also just as WOC discovered. You are the caretakers not the owners, that belongs to all of us that have been doing this for decades longer than the company existed. Don't become an MMO (let Goblin Works do that), support and lend them your name, but do not divert your fantastic resources to that endeavor and forget that it is, and always has bbeen the guys playing at night together at home that makes this the best game in the world not a computer which is used mainly for the quick reference at the table, the mapper has an easier job than in the late seventies. I know all won't share my opinion, but let me assure you the sales results and accurate research will do that for everyone in the end. You have some real stars in the gaming enterprise including the greatest female gamer of all time running your ship but develope those other guys as there is a substaintial fall off from your top six or eight to the next tier. A lot of them need extra help learning the hobby and the fantasy writing style. The new gamers learned from us (the mothers and fathers of them) To them growing up Gygax was not just a guy that might have had something to do with creating an MMO (as is commonly thought umoung the uninformed) and it is those guys buying your written products. Like the Roman victors of old riding with the slave whispering warnings that all glory is fleeting, make smart choices, so far you have.

Liberty's Edge

Regarding "old school". I guess I am one those that has played since 1978, so I might be qualified to at least speak on the matter. The game of D&D has evolved in ONE major sense and that is it is a LOT harder now to kill characters. Old school: 1st level wizards with one hit point and 18th level wizards with 32 hit points. Class options strictly based on race, it was a primarily Humanocentric game back then.

If you want to entertain some older gamers, play the Pathfinder game as it is written, just pull NO punches. Those guys are used to rolling up three characters a night and brag about having survived so and so's dungeon. The game only crawled out of the dungeon later and it is the dungeon that still challenges.

Around my table we play pretty hard core. There are no "Monty Haul" games and non "disposable" magic is still a rare treat. My players hate it when I pull punches or "soften up" on them. They take pride on being tenth level and if they have only died once, then it is a true accomplishment.

Some might find this "hard core type of game not to their liking, but I think once you challenge them, you will find that it is something worthwhile. Treat your games competitively, those guys do not come from the generation of "everyone gets a prize". Make the games competitive and give out experience points at the end of the night in a measure based on their accomplishments. Some will level faster than others in this style, but it will serve to increase their enjoyment.

Do that, play the game as written (it truly is a better game version after all), and DM with vivid description and a sense of dread.

Liberty's Edge

It might help if you remind your players when searching that taking ten or twenty is an option.

Liberty's Edge

I would love to see the Granny with the sqeaky red shoes one last time, done right. She should be terrifying...

Liberty's Edge

So, after almost 30 years of DMing I finally get to roll up a character... I still think this method is not so bad.

S 8
I 10
w 11
D 5
C 11
CH 11

3 Hit Points

I have no idea of what mister average qualifies for, but it could be fun to turn him into a clumsy Bard that was just average enough to think he could sing. When that fails him he switches to really easy magic tricks which might be followed up with terrible childish jokes which make nobody laugh. Since he is wise enough (he thinks) to keep his head (as he is too weak to fight).. he escapes out the back door, leaving town just like the guy depicted in the Rogues gallery on horse... unfortunately he falls on his butt trying to get into the saddle.