I need help, a Player wants to create a golem


Rules Questions


and I do not know a thing about it :-(.
I just got through the rules, but I did not loose the question mark in my face...
He is playing a 13th level Wizard Abjuration specialist, opposition schools Illusion & Enchantment

Wizard:

Traits
Resilent & Hedge Magician
Feats
(lvl 01) Arcane bond (Ring)+ Scribe Scroll
(lvl 01) Eschew Materials
(lvl 03) Craft Wondrous Item
(lvl 05) Craft Magic Arms and Armor
(lvl 05 bonus feat) Craft Construct
(lvl 07) Cooperative Crafting
(lvl 09) Opposition Research
(lvl 10 bonus feat) Quicken Spell
(lvl 11) Breadth of Experience
(lvl 13) Defensive Combat Training

I guess the skills are not that important.He has all the important ones.

He listed the construction price in this way

Golem:

Golem (Clay Golem)
base cost:
body (1,5k) +
enchantment (40k)-> (/2 *0,95 = 19k)
== 20,5k

Shield Guardian

25k base material +20k amulet (/2 *0,95)
= 34,5k
speed upgrade (Feet-Slot)
+30 ft movement (expeditious retreat "boots", continuous item, CL 1 x 2k x 2
value 4k, cost 1,9k

payload Upgrade
(like "Muleback Cords" (Ultimate Equiptment))
value 1k, cost 0,475k

+ "advanced Template" +15k (/2 *0,95) =7,125k
+ +3 HD +15k (/2 *0,95) =7,125k
here

Spoiler:

"Note: The market price of a golem with more Hit Dice than the typical golem described in each entry is increased by 5,000 gp for each additional Hit Die it possesses beyond the standard for its kind, and increases by an additional 50,000 gp if the golem's size increases. Building a golem with the advanced simple template increases its cost by 15,000 gp"

total golem cost: = 20,5+ 34,5+ 1,9 + 0,475 + 7,125k +7,125k = 71,625k
+ (large) Studded leather Armor +1
value 1200 gp (150(mw)+ 25x2 (da "large") +1k), cost 675

So as I said I did a bit of research and I think that is way too less...
At this page there is an example how to calculate a self build golem.

built:
A stone golem’s special abilities are golem immunity to magic, full healing from transmute mud to rock, a high to-hit bonus (+22 vs. the +19 typical for CR 11), and the ability to slow its foes. Further, since its spell vulnerabilities are not tied to common spells or effects, its immunity to magic cost is doubled, giving the stone golem a total of 5 special abilities. The first special ability doesn’t affect the cost, the next two increase the cost by +1/2 CR each, and the final two each increase the cost by +1 CR individually, making its effective CR for pricing equal to 14. This produces a calculated price of 98,000 gp, rounded up to an even 100,000 gp.

Clay Golem is CR 10
Special Abilities
berserk, cursed wounds, haste, immune to magic (counts as 2), special DR, high-hit-bonus (+19 vs +18)
+simple template +1CR
+shield guardian +2CR
+armor (can a golem wear armor?) +1CR
+HD +1CR
+Speed +1CR
=CR18
18*18*500gp +15000gp(template)+15000gp(HD)+45000gp(shield guardian) /2*0,95 = 112575gp

But I am not sure, if it is right for the shield guardian, maybe my English is too bad.
What does "A shield guardian's base materials cost an additional 25,000 gp above the base golem's cost." and "The keyed amulet is fashioned at the same time—it costs 20,000 gp above and beyond the shield guardian's total cost." that mean? Did I get it right?
I would be very very grateful, if someone can help me there. Anyway I think it will be way to overpowered to have such a golem in our party...
(please excuse my english..O:-)


Not including the -5% for hedge magician

Clay Golem base: 21,500 to craft
Adding the shield guardian template: +25,000 gp
Shield guardian amulet: +20,000
adding the advanced simple template: +15,000 gp.
adding 3 hit die: 15,000 gp (this is possible 7,500, the bestiary says HP increase market price, the other things talk about increasing cost, I think that using price was a mistake, and it should increase cost by 5,000 per but you can rule as you wish)

Total of the above: 96,000 gp

those are the bestiary prices and is pretty basic. It would give you a Golem, with 19 HD, 145 hp, Base attack of 5 higher than the base golem (+24 to hit on slam) damage of 2d10+9 etc.

The rest he is asking for is more complex. Clay golems could probably wear armor for large creatures, but they have no proficiency so they would take the appropriate penalties.

The 'fast' custom magic he created is probably priced wrong. At best he should be making the equivalent of boots of striding and springing for a +10 to move and costing 2,750 gp to make.

muleback cords are probably fine.

You are withing your rights as a GM to rule that non-intelligent constructs can't wear magic items. Even if you want to allow that, and I don't think it would break anything if you did, I would charge extra if this was built in rather than being warn on them, particularly since an unattended non-intelligent construct isn't probably going to notice if someone steals his magic muleback cords while his master is in the bar.....


EDITED - I'm bad with reading AND math, heh

This is quite complicated, isn't it? I'll start with your questions at the end of the post.

1) The shield guardian base material costs go up by 25,000 gp. So a normal clay golem is 1500 gp in materials (the clay and oils). A shield guardian clay golem's materials are 26500 gold. This is added AFTER the crafting total (it is not divided by 2).

2) A shield guardian requires a special amulet to be made that lets it shield the wearer. This will increase the cost of the golem by 20,000 gold over the normal 40,000 gp it costs. A shield guardian clay golem's cost is 60,000 gold

So the basic shield guardian clay golem is 26,500 materials + 60,000 magic cost = 86,500 gold. Though, again, this is without all the other cost increases listed in this post (final numbers below). This changes COMPLETELY once CR is modified, so you can toss this part away once new features are tossed onto the guy.

The boots. No you don't get to make continuous expeditious retreat boots for 4k. Why? Because there are already boots that work that way. While technically correct, the custom crafting rules require GM approval and part of the approval process is figuring out if it makes sense against other existing items. I recommend these instead: Boots of Striding and Springing. These cost 5500 to buy.

The rest is a bit confusing. I think you have it right as general cost to upgrade. Special abilities are hit bonus (+1), armor (+1 and enchantment cost, see below), HD (+1 with additional costs below), speed (+1 and crafting cost), payload upgrade (+1 and crafting cost), template (+1). I don't count the ones inherent to a clay golem because I believe that's part of the golem's base price. This gives you a total of 6. First is ignored, second and third are half, so +4 CR. Add the guardian's +2 CR to that.

As for armor, I can't see anything that says they can wear it, so I wouldn't allow it. You can give it magical armor enchantment by paying equivalent cost as if you were enchanting armor. So 2000 for +1, 8000 for +2, 18000 for +3, and so on (divided by 2, time 0.95 for crafting cost). Because, if they could wear armor, why would you be able to apply bonus armor enchantment? But this is up to you as GM.

The template is +15000 gold as you state. The HD cost looks right too. I only calculate the CR to be 16 probably because I cut out special abilities already build into a clay golem and thus it's base CR.

16*16*500 (CR) + 15000 (advanced template) + 15000 (hit dice) + 20000 (shield guardian amulet) + 5500 (boots) + 1000 (cords) + 2000 (+1 armor enchantment) = 186500.

Take that number and modify it for crafting (divide by 2, times 0.95) = 88587. Add the cost of materials, 26500, to that for 115087.

Final Price (assuming +1 armor enchantment) = 115087 gp

It seems, once the CR starts being modified, you throw away the 'base cost' value of the construct in favor of this modified formula. It is, however, a rough estimate. A basic clay golem's actual cost is 40,000 gp, which is about one CR's worth less than the rough rule of thumb suggests. If you want to be a bit more fair, you could use CR 15 for the base price. This would drop it to just about 100,000 gold.


Keep in mind the most important component for making a Golem is to capture an Elemental Spirit to power the thing.

That is something you can turn into an adventure


Greylurker wrote:

Keep in mind the most important component for making a Golem is to capture an Elemental Spirit to power the thing.

That is something you can turn into an adventure

I actually don't think that's part of the rules.

Though, it would be a great adventure plot hook. One I would be completely okay with doing.


bigrig107 wrote:
Greylurker wrote:

Keep in mind the most important component for making a Golem is to capture an Elemental Spirit to power the thing.

That is something you can turn into an adventure

I actually don't think that's part of the rules.

Though, it would be a great adventure plot hook. One I would be completely okay with doing.

Beastiary P 158 first paragraph

"-golems are granted their magical life via an Elemental spirit, typically that of an earth elemental. The process of creating the golem binds the spirit to the artificial body, merging it with this specifically prepared vessel and subjection to the will of the golem's creator"

Gotta get an elemental
suck it's soul out
stick it in the golem and enslave it to your will.


What's the rules for that?
How do you do that?

Every golem I've ever made/seen made hasn't dealt with that.


Well, constructs have a number of problems and can unbalance a game.

What I am trying to get my DM to accept is this:

Craft Construct: You can make Constructs. Any construct you make must have a CR equal to or less than your Character Level - 2. The price of a construct is 500*CR^2 gp, and the cost to create it is half that. This does not include the cost for the body, which depends on the material (5% of price for cloth, 10% for wood or stone, 15% for iron or other metal, 20% for mithril or adamantine).

Personal Construct Template: A Personal Construct can be repaired if destroyed. This takes 8 hours of work and a Make Whole spell and restores the construct to 1 hp. It does not cost any money. You can also upgrade a personal construct. The cost is the difference between its current cost to create and the cost to create a construct of the final CR. Anyone who can make Constructs can make one Personal Construct for free, all others increase the effective CR by 1 both for cost to build and for the CR limit.

This makes constructs not be overwhelmingly powerful or overpriced. It also alleviates the big reason to make them overwhelmingly powerful; they can get destroyed and then you lose all that money. And it avoids the weirdness of selling your Construct and making a new one repeatedly.

I'm working on rules for upgrading Animated Objects, since the default ones are awful.

Just my two cents.


Thank you guys, that helped a lot :-)
I will think about your suggestion Drachasor, sounds fair


bigrig107 wrote:

What's the rules for that?

How do you do that?

Every golem I've ever made/seen made hasn't dealt with that.

Probably included in the cost to craft you golem.

And as UCamp say, IIRC, if you have some special material related to something you want to craft, you can lower crafting cost by using it. So doing the quest to lower the price, or because the nearest towns don't have such component, is still a good idea.


I've always just used http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/book- golem-manual and any extra's e.g. muleback cords cost the usual price, if you want to insert them in the golem well honestly that's never come up for me hmmmm honestly I'd just rule that its limited to the standard number of magic items e.g. only 2 rings and that it is limited by its intelligence or lack there of. You may be able to get it to swing a hammer with its slam attack but it wont be putting on a dazzling display with a longsword to intimidate foes.

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