RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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My latest item that I "can't leave home without" has been a golembane scarab. It's always great to check out those suspicious statues from afar, and I can loan it out to the big damage dealers if they happen to sit at my table.
Potions of lesser restoration have also been a hot item at my tables lately. Ability damage, recovering from fatigue--this 2nd level potion is worth investing in one or two of, especially for frontliners with low Strength or Constitution.
Shadows and wraiths suck.
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Oooooo, Wizardly Grapple-Fu!
Okay, the spell Grease is fine and dandy but why not start with Alchemical Grease, instead? First, it's only 5gp. Second, it lasts 4 hours and provides a +5 alchemical bonus to CMD vs Grapples (escaping and avoiding), Escape Artist checks and best of all stacks with the Grease spell. What's more, you don't need to be a caster to use it. If you're feeling even saucier, use Alchemical Grease as an Alchemical Power Component (requires Adventurer's Armory for PFS legality) when casting the Grease spell to increase the Escape Artist bonus vs grapples by +1.
And if you absolutely, positively, irrevocably MUST escape that damn grapple, keep Liberating Command memorized. It's a purely Verbal spell, it takes only an Immediate Action and it provides a competence bonus to your Escape Artist check equal to twice your caster level.
So yes, you can in fact stack Liberating Command, Alchemical Grease & Grease when you need to get out of a jam.
Unfortunately Liberating Command does not work on the caster, you need to many immediate actions.
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Potions of lesser restoration have also been a hot item at my tables lately. Ability damage, recovering from fatigue--this 2nd level potion is worth investing in one or two of, especially for frontliners with low Strength or Constitution.
Shadows and wraiths suck.
The problem is that by RAW, the brewer of the potion makes all choices at the time of brewing, so if you actually want to cover all your bases, you need to collect all 7 delicious fruit flavors. Of course, that still may be worth it for the action economy of not needing to spend 3 rounds casting the spell, and some GMs let you just get an unspecified potion anyway.
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The problem is that by RAW, the brewer of the potion makes all choices at the time of brewing, so if you actually want to cover all your bases, you need to collect all 7 delicious fruit flavors. Of course, that still may be worth it for the action economy of not needing to spend 3 rounds casting the spell, and some GMs let you just get an unspecified potion anyway.Potions of lesser restoration have also been a hot item at my tables lately. Ability damage, recovering from fatigue--this 2nd level potion is worth investing in one or two of, especially for frontliners with low Strength or Constitution.
Shadows and wraiths suck.
I am leaving work so I could not find it in time but there is a post where skr says you pick when you drink it instead when it is brewed,
Although that also carries problems for unconscious characters being fed the potion
(and presumably likewise if targets of the actual spell)
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It might be better to say that (lesser) restoration cures the condition of ability damage, so whichever ability score is causing (or contributes most to) that condition, that's what the potion heals. If it was not so, clerics would have to make a lot of Heal and Knowledge checks when casting the spell to decide which ability score needed help.
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You could be thinking 'I'm a Pathfinder I've been taught and trained about this stuff.' But have you? Isn't that what the Knowledge skills represent? what you've learned?
Just because you don't have a knowledge skill doesn't mean you can't roll - it just means you can't get a result above 10.
I would think that buying vermin repellent or alchem acid or fire probably falls into that category of easy to know - and presumably some training takes place before one becomes pathfinder.
And knowledge skills are not what you have learned, it is something more abstract - as you might roll right to know powers about a critter in one game, but roll badly and completely forget in the next.
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You could be thinking 'I'm a Pathfinder I've been taught and trained about this stuff.' But have you? Isn't that what the Knowledge skills represent? what you've learned?
Just because you don't have a knowledge skill doesn't mean you can't roll - it just means you can't get a result above 10.
I would think that buying vermin repellent or alchem acid or fire probably falls into that category of easy to know - and presumably some training takes place before one becomes pathfinder.
And knowledge skills are not what you have learned, it is something more abstract - as you might roll right to know powers about a critter in one game, but roll badly and completely forget in the next.
As you said the Knowledge skill DC is limited to 10 unless you have ranks in the skill, only common monsters have a DC less than that as far as identifying them goes and DC 10 is also only 'Really easy questions' as far as general knowledge goes. I would certainly not define the secrets magic or even alchemy as 'really easy knowledge' since these things are far beyond the means of any common person, a peasant cant afford alchemists fire and probably hasnt even seen any in their whole life.
As far as Im concerned that should mean that unless its very simple, ie a sword is better than a club and wearing armour will keep you alive or insect repellent will keep away mosquitoes then you must have the applicable skill to explain why you know about it or be higher level or have run into a situation like it before.
I did notice that the original post for this thread spoke about various tiers and at higher levels, say 7-11, I'd be ok with the characters having made some of these preparations. Id still prefer to see the appropriate skills on the character though.
As far as older Pathfinders giving advice to players goes, Id be ok with that... if the player then took a rank in the Knowledge skill to represent that they actually learned what the older Pathfinder has taught them. Until then they'd know that its important to have silver, or cold iron or adamantine or to carry alchemist's fire but wouldnt know what those things are MOST useful for. And if its not common knowledge and therefore above DC 10 then they may not have any idea at all whats its for, obviously they forgot what that older Pathfinder taught them...
Its no more ridiculous to assume the character doesnt know than it is to assume they do.
As far as the whole knowing something one day and then forgetting it the next goes, well that can happen cant it? I know I've forgotten words and their meanings only to remember later on. However there are also lots of things I simply dont know and others I've learned. I guess the rules are trying to reflect this, if a little clumsily.
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Isn't the training supposed to take place over three years?
I agree that it is reasonable that certain things should be just taught beforehand as part of being a Pathfinder - "There are vicious swarms. Pack something like Alchemist's Fire!" (hell, this is something at least one NPC in a tier 1 module just *TELLS* you). Or "If an enemy caster is casting something, hit him to break is concentration!". Or "A rope has countless uses.", "Certain creatures might only be affected by silver or cold iron"...the only thing from the OP I can't really imagine being taught is "You should suck up to a Faction in our shadow war so they can hand you a Wand of CLW" and maybe "At some point in time you will have to fly", but the latter probably because that is so far off from the real world as opposed to a magical First Aid kit.
Pathfinders aren't random adventurers who are collected in a random tavern to do some weird task in unknown lands. They are members of a world-spanning organization and trained to do what they do, even though mortality is quite high - I'm sure that after multiple centuries SOMEONE should tink "Hm, this is the third time some demon slaughtered half a party of ours, maybe we should tell everyone to bring cold iron when suspecting something like this..."
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It is supposed to take years for the Training. Assuming you attended the classes at Absalom and aren't a field commissioned Pathfinder.
Obviously if you dont have the knowledge skills, say knowledge Nature to reflect that you know the dangers of swarms, then you didnt pay attention during that class. You didnt learn it.
Forgetting that sometimes it seems like the Pathfinder Society is made up of random yahoos I must point out again that bein taught something is knowledge, so is experiencing it for yourself. So when the someone you suggest tells everyone they should take Cold Iron weapons to kill demons, guess what? They should all take a Rank of Knowledge Planes to represent that lesson. If they don't I guess that means they ignored the guys advice or weren't paying attention. Maybe they shouldn't hold these meetings at random Taverns...
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The scenario you're thinking of where the npcs tells you that you should use alchemists fire on swarms is The Confirmation I think. If I were GMing and you showed me the Chronicle sheet after asserting that you know that i'd be satisfied because I know that it happens.
I do not run PFS though an this sort of thing is part of the reason.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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The scenario you're thinking of where the npcs tells you that you should use alchemists fire on swarms is The Confirmation I think. If I were GMing and you showed me the Chronicle sheet after asserting that you know that i'd be satisfied because I know that it happens.
I do not run PFS though an this sort of thing is part of the reason.
So you don't do PFS because you don't have the freedom to say to players "Hey, you never made a Knowledge check to know how to deal with swarms! Cross those alchemist's fires off your inventory and find something else to do while these spiders eat your face."?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The scenario you're thinking of where the npcs tells you that you should use alchemists fire on swarms is The Confirmation I think. If I were GMing and you showed me the Chronicle sheet after asserting that you know that i'd be satisfied because I know that it happens.
I do not run PFS though an this sort of thing is part of the reason.
So... your reason for posting was just to tell us all how wrong we are? Do you also go into the PbP forums, find campaigns you're not a part of, and tell them how they should be playing? None of us showed up to a discussion of your own home campaign to announce how silly we thought your methods were, so please show us the same courtesy: either try out the campaign so you can give legitimate feedback, or accept that it's okay for people to play differently than you and get back to your own game.
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I said I dont run PFS, I didnt say I dont Play it. Also I didnt say its not okay to play it your way. Play it anyway you want. That being said I believe I have a right to give my opinion, whatever it might be, on any topic discussed here as a member of the community.
I said that this line of thinking might lead to meta gaming and I tried to explain the logic behind that.
I think it possible that some bad habits may be getting taught to new players, that's all.
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These equipment lists always forget the casting classes. There's been a boatload of info on how to make it as a successful damage dealer. Well, this list is for those among us who just want to cast spells and be done with it. Additional resources notified by an asterisk (*)
Tier 1-5:
# Scrolls or wands of grease or alchemical greases* to have a fighting edge over those readied grapples
# A smokestick or a way to cast obscuring mist or a similar spell to deal with sneak attackers, ranged enemies and the like.
# A melee weapon, so that you threaten your surrounding squares, no you ain't going to kill anything with it, but people will thank you for the occasional flank and AAOs can be a godsent.
# A nifty wand of a first level spell to zap enemies with. Forget about crossbows. If you have the charisma, demoralizing can be done as a standard action and can be just as effective as a doom spell.
# An extra holy symbol and/or spell component pouch
# A wrist sheath* or two. Just remember that the darn things provoke an AAO so be careful.
# Healing items, preferably a wand you can use by yourself and a potion that anybody can use ON YOU
# Swarm killers, there's several ways to listed in this very thread
Tiers 3-7 to 5-9
# Pearls of power or runestones of power*. Get several, so you'll always have a handy repeat of a low level spell available
# A belt of constitution so that yer scrawny neck can survive the occasional suprise fireball or spiked pit trap
# A headband of your choice casting stat since spells DCs and slots are king
# A liberal serving of remove spell completion items that do not require caster level checks. A blind caster is a dead caster
# A handy haversack to carry your gear in. Chances are, your STR score won't be too high and it is courteous to not turn the rest of the party into mules
# A secondary role. So, you've been the most dreaded necromancer of the Kortos isle for 4 levels now? Get creative, become a buffer or maybe a summoner. No need to specialize, just have a trick up your sleeve when you expertise does not matter.
# A way to purge invisibility or see the invisible. This greatly varies by class, but some mainstays are glitterdust and faerie fire for instance
I'm sure someone whose highest level character isn't a barbarian/fighter multiclass can fill in the rest. My only accolade is a 16th level cleric(healer/buffer) so any high level advice by yours truly would be sorely lacking.
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Metamagic Rods: find a few that give you some handy options. By eyes of the 10, my Omni-Caster (Paladin/Sorc/Oracle blend) walked around with a quicken metamagic (lesser) rod in hand. Consider carrying the rod of your choice at all times. Elemental rods are handy for blaster casters (because flat out immunities *suck*). Also, Dweomer's Essence (500 gp) can be used as a consumable to give you a +5 boost on your SR check. Not a good option for *every* spell, but sometimes, you really really need a spell to stick.
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I said I dont run PFS, I didnt say I dont Play it. Also I didnt say its not okay to play it your way. Play it anyway you want. That being said I believe I have a right to give my opinion, whatever it might be, on any topic discussed here as a member of the community.
I said that this line of thinking might lead to meta gaming and I tried to explain the logic behind that.
I think it possible that some bad habits may be getting taught to new players, that's all.
How many ranks of Knowledge: Planes do you need to know whether you should buy a cold iron weapon? Is one rank enough? Is that enough to know to buy a silver weapon? Or do you need two ranks to get both? Is it just a skill check? If so, what's the DC to identify common traits among a monster's subtype?
What, short of identifying a creature in battle (at which point it's too late) is an appropriate method for a PC to know they might need certain gear?
I agree that there is a certain meta-gaminess in a character having their purchases mapped out from 1 - 12. But what you're proposing has little in the way of rules support, which is key in PFS in order to avoid table variation.
Most GMs I've played under tend to consider Type/subtype Traits to be more or less common knowledge. So once you've identified a creature as a skeleton, you know it's likely got DR 5/bludgeoning. Or that an incorporeal creature will be immune to non-magic weapons.
The Knowledge check, beyond identifying the creature and its type, is used to remember specific attributes about that creature, like special attacks.
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Painlord did a good post on this exact issue a while back. But the message bears repeating.
I also second Rob's comments regarding clear spindles.
I like building solid characters as much as the next guy, but having a decent Will save precludes the need for a clear spindle for me. There's other, less janky ways to protect yourself against mind control. The clear spindle for me is like enabling mods when playing a game... achievements get disabled ;)
Thirdeded.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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I too agree on Walters post.
None of my characters have clear spindles and all of them have survived the toughest adventures with the toughest GMs! (Ok, sometimes they were just hiding in their bubble, but surviving none the less!)
+1 for Suppress Charms and Compulsions!
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The "save or spend 45 minutes not playing" spells are why I feel justified in the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone. I show up to PFS to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and bubblegum doesn't appear on the Additional Resources page.
That said, I definitely would never blame anyone for not wanting the same protections I prefer. The mind control protection is sure nice, but not really necessary. I feel differently about flying, though. I feel really sorry about players who miss entire fights just because the boss is 70' up and won't come down.
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I've had the darn thing on my character for the longest time, but, for some reason, always get to gm the ones where it might see use instead of playing them myself.
Mind you, that list is pretty short. And I can think of a couple scenarios, where the tactics really screw up dominate for instance. It's a strong combo, to be sure, but I've started to regret buying it. That money could have been used to buy a swarmbane clasp or golembane scarab or saved for the raise dead fund, etc
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I hated the idea of the Clear Spindle, and none of my characters had one until my main was charmed by Harpies during both his 31st and 32nd games.
By his 33rd game he finally grabbed one (but I still feel dirty about it).
I see it as perfectly reasonable to want to protect one's mind from evil influence. Heck, it'd be the first item I'd go for if I lived in a world with mind control.
Especially on a character who has fought against mind-controlled allies before.
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These equipment lists always forget the casting classes. There's been a boatload of info on how to make it as a successful damage dealer. Well, this list is for those among us who just want to cast spells and be done with it. Additional resources notified by an asterisk (*)
Add to this for arcane casters - buy a scroll of Command Undead very early. You know that giant zombie coming at you - how would you like to have it as a buddy for the rest of the game.
Mindless undead don't get a save, and it lasts for 3 days.
The caster level check to cast a 2nd levels scroll when you are first level is easy - although the UMD check is 23 and much harder. Still its a common scroll among my umd characters once they have an +11 or so.
Yes, sometimes there is someone who will not want it along, but it also will just stand there and let the paladin beat on it if you tell it to.
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How many ranks of Knowledge: Planes do you need to know whether you should buy a cold iron weapon?
most of my characters buy all their weapons and arrows as cold iron - it is only double cost - the exceptions being expensive weapons at first level, things like great swords and falchions and the like.
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First game:
1 club. 1 sling. 1 Dagger. Gives you ranged, piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning for 2 gold pieces. Even if you personally don't want to go near the skeletons, chances are that fighter next to you might.
After the first game:
Wand of cure light wounds. A wand of cure light wounds or infernal healing. A wand of infernal healing. Or maybe one of cure light wounds.
At first level there is no such thing as "just one hit point". Top off after every fight.
Casters: Snag some situational scrolls. Comprehend languages is a good one. No matter how many ranks you get in linguistics there's always another squirrly language out there.
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Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised no one has posted a link to the Pathfinder Society Survival 101 blog post from Oct 2012. Lots of good advice in it.
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Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised no one has posted a link to the Pathfinder Society Survival 101 blog post from Oct 2012. Lots of good advice in it.
Best advice and some real good stuff in there.
Did let me survive Bonekeep 1 by GM Mike Brock^^
At first level there is no such thing as "just one hit point". Top off after every fight.
Indeed. Some people may think it's cheesy, but always keeping a Virtue Orison going by re-casting it ever minute is just a great idea whenever your character has reason to believe they are in a dangerous situation. Same with Guidance and Resistance (those over-lap, but you could choose to use them on separate Saves, or different types of rolls).
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@Damalon: Regarding your insistence on Knowledge rolls:
As a member of the Pathfinder Society, all PCs have access to the library at the Grand Lodge in Absolom, as well as any library (and they all have libraries) in whatever lodge you are cycling through for a mission.
This qualifies any PC for making any Knowledge skill covered by the volumes in the library Grand Lodge would pretty much cover everything) with a +5 bonus, and even if untrained.
Time between scenarios/modules is undefined.
How many Knowledge skill rolls could I get, then, before the VC briefing?
Heh. My PC who is a worshipper of Caydean Caillean has been banned from the tavern...How many Knowledge skill rolls could I get, then, before the VC briefing?None, because you're busy spending the results of your Day Job roll at the tavern.
He's been banned from the temple?
Must of been some party!
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The clear spindle sustains you without food or water... how is that supposed to help against mental attacks?
I've been running in to suggestion, confusion, domination, magic jar (shadow demons are getting pretty common). Good protections against these would be nice for my fighter.
As far as special weapon types go, IMO it's common knowledge that silver and cold iron weapons are needed to hurt some monsters. It takes a knowledge check to know specifically what hurts what.