The Comprehensive Kensai Magus Guide


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Lantern Lodge

I wouldn't say the nerf is directed at Kensai. I'm pretty sure every magus feels the pain. The ACG is just now a nearly pointless book for Magi (though experimenting with the archetype in there has led to some interesting things. Optimal? Haven't decided yet O.o).

Kensai had, and will continue to have good damage dealing capabilities, not to mention the adaptability of a half casting class. 4 level of unchained rogue still gets you dex to damage (not really an option I know), or you can also get the agile weapon property.

It's good to know that there is a trade-off between strength and dexterity, with dexterity bringing survivability in terms of initiative and AC, while strength offers survivability in terms of extra feats or more offensive capabilities. I like having to make hard choices, making characters without it would be "meh". Though there certainly seems to be a lot of no brainer options still.

Honestly though, I hate dervish dance and fencing grace. It's really lame that Paizo deems certain weapons to have that combat style and prevents others from doing so.


Could one still make a Str based Kensai without effectively shooting themselves in the kneecap?

Lantern Lodge

Sure, I played one that used a fauchard for the 18-20 in a reach weapon. Now, I couldn't use spell combat and use the fauchard at the same time, so it used the feel of a traditional gish (buff'n fight), but it was pretty fun to cast frostbite and live off of it for a turn or two.


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
I wouldn't say the nerf is directed at Kensai. I'm pretty sure every magus feels the pain.

Kensai gets hit the hardest by far by this stuff, though.


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Sure, I played one that used a fauchard for the 18-20 in a reach weapon. Now, I couldn't use spell combat and use the fauchard at the same time, so it used the feel of a traditional gish (buff'n fight), but it was pretty fun to cast frostbite and live off of it for a turn or two.

This brings to mind another query: how much is a magus shooting themselves in the kneecap by using a two-hander (and thus not being able to use spell combat), because I have oft wanted to make a spear/polearm/whathaveyou using gish modeled after Volga in Hyrule Warriors, and aside from that persnickety one-handed restriction for spell combat, magus seems like a good candidate.

Lantern Lodge

If I could find the build I used, I'd love to show it to you, though I'm not sure I back'ed it up (my laptop is.. well, "mostly dead", and I used instead of paper/pencil in those days). However it did involve a two level dip into titan mauler barbarian, so spell combat wasn't impossible.

However, this is actually a topic I introduce in my upcoming guide.

"It’s important to understand the impact of not using Spell Combat before browsing the various builds. Spell Combat is essentially Two-Weapon Fighting. You get a spell, and your normal weapon strikes. Spell Strike is essentially Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. You get a spell, your normal weapon strikes, and another weapon strike to deliver your touch attack spell. Any build that doesn’t use Spell Combat misses out on something comparable to two amazing free feats."

If you have what I'm going to call a "standard" adventuring day of 4 combats, each lasting around 4 rounds, early on you won't notice it too much. You already have too few spells to cast one each round. However, starting around levels 7 and 8 (in my experience), you start having enough spell slots to fully utilize spell combat, and by level 11-12 you have quite a bit of room for pre-buffing and out of combat utility spells.

By removing spell combat entirely from the picture, you'll end up converting all, or nearly all of your spells into buffs or utility spells. Your mid combat utility will suffer, as well as your DPR. It's not optimal, but it can be done.

Sometimes, your able to have spell combat off to the side. For example, a sword and board build is possible (without skirnir). Just grab quickdraw, and a quickdraw shield. Then, plow away as usual: when you want to cast a spell, quickly put away your shield, cast, do your full round action, and then at the end of your turn draw your shield again. This is similar to my polearm barbarian build I mentioned, though instead of putting away a shield I simply took one hand off of the weapon.


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Archmage Joda wrote:
FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Sure, I played one that used a fauchard for the 18-20 in a reach weapon. Now, I couldn't use spell combat and use the fauchard at the same time, so it used the feel of a traditional gish (buff'n fight), but it was pretty fun to cast frostbite and live off of it for a turn or two.
This brings to mind another query: how much is a magus shooting themselves in the kneecap by using a two-hander (and thus not being able to use spell combat), because I have oft wanted to make a spear/polearm/whathaveyou using gish modeled after Volga in Hyrule Warriors, and aside from that persnickety one-handed restriction for spell combat, magus seems like a good candidate.

You can play a Mindblade.


The Estoc from the Melee Tactics Toolbox (or the SRD) is a good weapon choice that the guide doesn't list: it's a 1h exotic weapon that does 2d4 damage with an 18-20 threat range and can be finessed.


Archmage Joda wrote:
This brings to mind another query: how much is a magus shooting themselves in the kneecap by using a two-hander (and thus not being able to use spell combat), because I have oft wanted to make a spear/polearm/whathaveyou using gish modeled after Volga in Hyrule Warriors, and aside from that persnickety one-handed restriction for spell combat, magus seems like a good candidate.

If the main goal is to have reach as opposed to the style you could use a whip. You know, in case you missed having to use a bunch of feats to get basic functionality working now that dex-to-damage has been nuked.

Lantern Lodge

pi4t wrote:
The Estoc from the Melee Tactics Toolbox (or the SRD) is a good weapon choice that the guide doesn't list: it's a 1h exotic weapon that does 2d4 damage with an 18-20 threat range and can be finessed.

Thanks for listing that, I'll include it in the upcoming Magus Guide. I don't search the SRD for options, just the PRD, since that is what I use in the games I DM.


i know it's mor then a year since someone posted something like this,
but i need some advice, and this Thread seems to be quit perfect for it.

I want to Play a Tiefling Fiend Flayer Magus Kensai with scimitar or Rapier and go for the slashing or fencing grace.

Frodos Guide is great an i will get alot of information there and can built up my own Style for this Kensai but there is one question i want to ask you:

I want to dip the first lvl (or lvls) into swashbuckler class.

My question here is: How Valuable is a 3lvl Dip (one lvl dip is out of question)

i mean you are getting your spells 2 lvls later and you would loose one Arcanepool Point for sure AND get the cool kensai-Magus Stuff 2 lvls later

but i thought of getting charmed life/3 (my charisma is only 12 atm but i think of getting it will raise to 14 and be increased with items later so this could be a nice thing later)

in addition you get nimble 1 .. (well +1 AC dodge is ok), but the much more valuable thing i am looking for are the lvl 3 Deeds where i must have at least one Panache point.

Keep Up and Menacing Swordplay are more situationale, but to get +2 initiative and +3 dmg on all rolls for an additional 2 lvl Dip seems not that Bad ... and i could have some Varieties for special situations to spend that panach point if i have to do it. (normal i just want to spare one)i will crit often so the chance to get that one Panachle point back is very high ^^

So What do you think is it worth a lvl 3 Dip or will i give up to much nice stuff from My Kensai magus in exchange ?

ah and i am getting the racial alternate scaled skin to be more stable.

and i am not sure about my Favourite class options +1/4 arcane points is at first sight just like .. ok ...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Dokalfar wrote:

i know it's mor then a year since someone posted something like this,

but i need some advice, and this Thread seems to be quit perfect for it.

Try this thread instead.


Hi,
First of all, thanks a lot for your guide, it helped me so much !
However, I'm playîg a game where characters have very high stats, and it wasn't exactly covered in the guide (which is normal since it's unusual).
I have an elf, and without items, my stats are : str16, dex 16(18 with elf bonus), con 16, int 18(20), wis 12 cha 11. I'm pretty sure my dex, int and con have the right scores, but I don't know if I should put more in wisom, strength or charisma, since they all seem dump stats to me... I start at level 5, and took as feats finesse, slashing grace (so dex to hit and dmg), intensify spell (shocking grasp) and craft wondrous items as feat (since I'm also a bladebound, wondrous items are going to be most of my items, with a fe wands and a few rods). So, are my stats good where they are or should I rearrange them ? Oh and if you have better suggestions for my feats I would listen, but I'd like to keep wondrous craft.
Thank you !


Your feats are fine although you should make sure you take magical lineage (shocking grasp). Honestly your stats are fine, the only suggestion I might make is if you are doing a dex focused build then perhaps switching your 16 in strength to wisdom would make sense. That would give you a better will save and increase a few very important skills such as perception. Your feat selection is perfectly fine and I would not change it. Good luck :)


Yeah forgot about the traits, of course I took magical lineage :p
That's what I thought too but I was wondering if maybe strength would be useful sometime, but guess I'll switch str and wis then, thank you ;)


Another thing : there is a good chance that I will get a griffon later (hint from the gm, don't know how exactly but that's for scenaristic reason), so I was wondering if it might be good to invest in ride rather than fly, and use the griffon as a mount in fight (when i get it, I will probably take leadership to have it as a cohort and scale with it). Or should I just use him to assist me in close combat, by flying around, using maneuvers, flanking ennemies, etc ? (And doing damage of course, a griffon is peetty good in a fight after all)


If you know that you will be gaining a mount in the future it is probably wise to at least put a few ranks into ride. You can use it as a mount and a combat partner honestly, it is always nice to have a way to travel and they are decent combatants but take care as they are very fragile.

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