Well, you only lose a held charge when you cast a spell, and since using a wand doesn't count as casting a spell...
I think that is how it goes at least. Could be wrong.
That MAY be a loophole, but unless there's an official FAQ on it, it's on rather shaky ground, especially since it feels against RAI.
In PFS, I would expect a LOT of table variation on it.
Either using a wand is casting a spell, in which case spellstriking with a wand is legal (and I've seen it very clearly argued that it isn't) or it isn't casting a spell, in which case it doesn't disrupt held charges of touch spells.
Either way, wand wielder (and maybe wand mastery) become valuable for staff magi.
|
Spell combat is a full round action that has some of the benefits of a full attack actions.
As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).
Now it has the benefits of being a full attack for certain effects.
Magus, Spell Combat: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?
Yes.
@Derrick Winters: There's a section on whip in there :), underneath the builds section. I'm not sure about the effectiveness of grappling with a whip though. You either choose not to maintain, or you give up spell combat.
There's several good idea's in there, I'll put some of that information into the guide! Thanks!
By the way, if anyone has any example builds they would like attached to the guide for others to see, let me know. I *might* be able to get spells done, and a short section on traits, and an example builds section would be great!
Thanks for the update.
I have a small issue with the spell list, is there any reason Bladed Dash is green and Force Hook Charge is blue?
Bladed Dash is a 2nd level spell that does not provoke and allows you to make an attack at +Int to any creature in your path that can be as long as 30ft.
FHC is a 3rd level spell with a bit more range (45ft at level 10) but it does provoke, does not allow you to make a free attack (doing CL force damage instead which can be negated by a successful save) and does not allow you to bypass restraints or small spaces.
To me it seems Bladed Dash should be purple and FHC green or so ;)
Also I thank you for your thourough guide, thanks to you my next character will probably be a kensai magus ;)
One question : You've quoted many different builds but what's your personal preference in term of combat strength?
|
|
Eh, I reserved purple for must haves, Bladed Dash is nice, but I've lived this long without it... So it's a blue. I quickly threw the colors on because the commentary took so long, about 8 hours O.o. That is one of the reasons I would like some people to poke their eyes at it :). I think I put FHC as blue because of it's flavor... That and Bladed Dash is not in the PRD. It's down to green.
I'm kinda biased towards the frostbite build. It's complicated, but very effective. You spend two feats to make them unable to do anything, and two more feats to deal more damage. Some gold adds to the shame. Typically, I drop Rime Spell, or push it back to later levels, to make sure I'm not a one trick pony (I'd get Intensify Spell for SG first, or things like that). Frostbite builds also seem to have the most shenanigans available, so if I'm playing with a lenient GM I can try some cool tactics.
Frostbite builds slow the game down though, having to keep track of all of those debuffs. So I like to go with simpler builds too.
I was looking on the guide, and I had a note on the polymorphing section:
While you rate the "Elemental body" spell highly, I have seen 3 GMs say no to allowing fire/water/air elementals wield physical weapons (earth elementals yes though). It might be worth mentioning.
A minor correction:
In the Frostbite build, you mentioned that Chill Touch could be used to provide the entangled and dazed conditions. I'm assuming that you meant that Rime Spell could grant the entangled condition, but Rime Spell can't be applied to Chill Touch. Despite its name Chill Touch isn't a cold spell. It does negative energy damage.
On the other hand, Chill Touch is a useful alternative to Frostbite when facing undead, since it can cause them to flee. As you mentioned, Frostbite is useless against undead.
I've always considered pin down to be more of a bullying feat, something you use to trap less capable opponents in melee with you. Against casters, it combos especially well with antimagic field - which you could cast yourself via a magus arcana, or you could just wait until level 19. It also helps you "tank" enemies for the more squishy members of your party.
Why would you use an antimagic field? That'd screw you over more than anyone else--also it's impossible to get; Spell blending only works for lower leveled spells and AMF goes above your max spell level, and Kensai trades out greater spell access.
Ah, I forgot about trading out Greater Spell Access. You're incorrect about Spell Blending, though - you can do it up to your highest spell level. You only need to go lower if you want to get two spells for one arcana.
As for antimagic field, you'll be slightly ahead of any non-kensai magus, as well as leaps and bounds ahead of most sorcerers and wizards, and any other caster who doesn't have non-casting abilities to fall back on. (Note the caveat in place for usage - "against casters".)
|
|
I viewed pin down as a tanking ability, either A. they provoke by trying to charge/move and attack your friend, or they use the withdraw action. With Pin Down you prevent the withdraw option, and in addition to trip/entangle/whatever else you need to do, you've effectively forced an opponent to stay still using AoO's (which you have plenty of). With high AC, you'll be quite an effective tank :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
ACG adds a few options that are *nasty* in the hands of a Kensai.
Slashing Grace opens up the benefits of the Dervish option to literally any one handed slashing weapon - most notably, to whips, and the new Arcana makes Precise Strike a stupidly easy pickup, allowing you to add your class level to damage.
The only problem with slashing grace is that you NEED Swashbuckler Weapon Finesse, or you don't get dex to hit. (slashing grace specifically says dex to dam, nothing about dex to hit, but swash finesse fixes that)
Now, a one level dip in Swash for their finesse, then taking the rest in Kensai does open up dex to hit & dex to damage for one hand slashing weapons. (possible first level feats Piranha Strike & Extra Panache (if you dump charisma) second level going kensai (weapon focus katana/longsword/scimitar/etc) and third level feat being Slashing Grace)
Peter
|
Slashing Grace just requires Weapon finesse - and you don't need swash finesse for a handful of perfectly good slashing weapons that qualify for Slashing Grace for Dex to hit. (Specifically, the aforementioned Aldori Dueling Sword and Whip.)
Whoops, I wasn't thinking about the weapons specifically called out in Weapon Finesse for being Finesse-able, I was thinking in general (Thanks for pointing that out :D
geez christ this is so much better than dervish dance. now time to go Wakizashi Kensai! yahooo
|
|
I almost have most of the updates I want done on my hard copy, though I'm currently on vacation and don't have very much internet access (Cell phone postings FTW!). I'll probably wait to make all of the changes to after I get my copy of the ACG (or it lands on the PRD, whichever first) and add in all of that at the same time. But yeah, Slashing Grace looks great, and I've heard that the few magus archetypes in the book have some appeal, can't wait to look at those.
|
geez christ this is so much better than dervish dance. now time to go Wakizashi Kensai! yahooo
Wakizashi does not qualify. It is a light weapon.
Aldori Dueling sword allows the kensai to pick up dex to damage at level 1, but has a lower crit chance than the scimitar.
Dipping 1 level in swashbuckler allows the kensai dex to damage with the rhoka or katana at second level. With PFS rebuild rules, use the aldori dueling sword at 1st level, then switch weapons when you level.
|
|
I almost have most of the updates I want done on my hard copy, though I'm currently on vacation and don't have very much internet access (Cell phone postings FTW!). I'll probably wait to make all of the changes to after I get my copy of the ACG (or it lands on the PRD, whichever first) and add in all of that at the same time. But yeah, Slashing Grace looks great, and I've heard that the few magus archetypes in the book have some appeal, can't wait to look at those.
Given the number of editing mistakes and incomplete rules, I'm expecting more than a few FAQ's.
|
|
The one thing I don't like about new material: Options that are so good they seem automatic (though, new material has many benefits). Is there some sort of drawback to using Precise Strike? Does it require any action economy? Or just an arcana and a feat for a large damage increase?
I wonder if this makes a skirnir anymore viable, considering TWFing with a spiked shield, and only casting spells for self buffing. I'll have to experiment with a few builds...
It's not been released yet, but one of the feats in the Advanced Class Guide Origins player companion was previewed in another thread. It's called Fencing Grace, and it's basically Slashing Grace, but for Rapiers. Same pre-reqs and everything, which means that Kensais can take it at level 1.
I forsee a lot of Kensais becoming Rapier specialists when that supplement becomes available.
|
|
The one thing I don't like about new material: Options that are so good they seem automatic (though, new material has many benefits). Is there some sort of drawback to using Precise Strike? Does it require any action economy? Or just an arcana and a feat for a large damage increase?
Two arcana and a feat, no hit to action economy.
For a new build, I actually made a human kensai as a back-up character for the current campaign I'm in that is a bastard child of the House of Thrune. No armor, though I might pick up a haramaki or ceremonial, not sure yet. Did go with the blade bound magus as a companion archtype, and decided to go with the sword cane weapon. Almost the exact same stats (only missing the rapier's 18-20 crit range that I only just now noticed >.<), and it introduces a cool theme: The Gentleman Warrior.
I've been wanting to make a character who wears a nice suit and cane and can still kick a lot of @$$. Hadn't look at a lot of the magus options other than blade bound before, and when I finally really looked at the kensai archtype, I thought it would be perfect for what I had in mind.
The build focuses more on the physical side of combat, making quick strikes and using his unfettered speed to close in with the enemies. It's at level 8, and I chose Combat Reflexes as my bonus combat feat, Noble Scion (for the flavor) and Eschew Materials (to not have to worry about materials for lower-level spells) as my level 1 feats, Fast Learner at level 3 (which I'm thinking about tossing out for something else now that I've seen your guide), Weapon Specialization at level 5, and Vital Strike at level 7 (which I'm thinking about replacing since I've been seeing a lot of negative connotations with it since I've started reading the forums here). My only arcana so far is Arcane Strike, though I'm thinking about replacing it with Arcane Accuracy now.
A Human Kensai can also grab Saw-Tooth Sabre at level 1 and Weapon Finesse & Slashing Grace. For both Dex to hit/damage.
I wish the sabre was an 18-20 threat range though.
The Sawtooth is actually only light for two-weapon fighting. Aldori Dueling Sword is finessable.
I don't have my book in front of me, but there's a couple of things there that are probably worthwhile for a Kensai.
The most notable ones I can think of are the new spell Longarm, which increases your reach by 5 feet for minutes/level, and the Fortuitous weapon enchantment, which looks like a brilliant way to make use of the high number of attacks of opportunity that a Kensai gets.
As a side note, I'm not seeing how you would get Slashing Grace at first level, even with the Swashbuckler dip. Dex 13 is easy and Swashbuckler's Finesse counts as Weapon Finesse, but you still need to pick up Weapon Focus with the weapon before you can get Slashing Grace. I suppose as a Human, you can pick up both, but that still seems rather odd unless you're planning to use the retraining rules once you get Weapon Focus from the Kensai archetype. Am I missing something, or is that just a mistake?
This guide is great! I've been studying it and trying to learn how I want to build, but I'm new to pathfinder and I'm still not confident as to actually putting the character down on a sheet. Would you mind putting together a Level 11 Mythic Champion tier 2 Kensai Magus. I'd want to go more with that standard build you had that just tries to deliver as much dmg as possible. I'd really really appreciate it.
A feat you should consider adding to the mix is the Aldori Dueling Mastery. The only tax feat is Quick Draw...which isn't a horrible feat, but a little on the goofy side considering you only get the initiative bonus when your sword is already in hand... Yet! The +2 shield bonus isn't something to scoff at, especially if you're going the Dex build with Slashing Grace.