Enhancement Bonus are Treated as


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Excuse me if this is some sort of special ruling or something of that matter. But I was playing some tables at a Con and heard players saying they were over coming special kinds of DR for hitting with a weapon with a specific number bonus. i.e. +4 weapon is equal to having made out of adamantine. though this isn't a specific example, its along the line of what they were arguing. I know of the +1 bonus makes it Magical for that purpose but not of anything else.

Could someone guide me to what the Potential source of this could be.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Damage-Reductio n

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/glossary.html#_damage-reduction

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

+1 weapons overcome DR/magic
+3 weapons overcome DR/silver and DR/cold iron
+4 weapons overcome DR/adamantine
+5 weapons overcome DR/alignment
+6 weapons overcome DR/epic

Silver Crusade

So, is the Alignment based one at +5 just 'whatever is convenient' or what ever the Alignment of the wielder is. Seems to me like its the former as that makes the most sense, but seems a little Unfair and too easy. I mean what are the chances you're a martial without at least a weapon of +5 fighting a Balor or any CR 20+ creature.

Balor: MUHAHAHA mortal you cant easily harm ME!!!!

Lvl 15-20 Neutral Fighter: Sorry I somehow had 50,000 plus gold to spend on me, Who would have guessed I would have AT LEAST this much to spend on a single weapon by the time I hit level 15-20.

There is no risk in that. Why bother making an Alignment enhancement when all you have to do is wait 3-4 more enhancements to just bypass ALL alignment DR. "aww man I just bought this +1 good aligned Bastard Sword. Hope we never run into any angels"
Mean while some guy in the back of the Enhancement store snickers at him for being a noob for not waiting on the +5.


Some people care more about the special abilities such as flaming, and it also stops the golf bag problem from 3.5.

To answer the question the alignment one overcomes any alignment based DR.

And to be clear that +5 alignment has to specifically be enhancement bonus. Special abilities such as flaming don't count for the purpose of the weapon's ability to overcome DR.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

It's to escape the 'golf bag of weapons' that haunted melees in 3E. What do you do when enemies had DR/Lawful, Evil or Chaotic, instead of /Good? Your holy sword is just spit. Likewise with materials...I've got a +5 sword, why am I doing less damage against werewolves, now? Oh, it's cold iron instead of silver. Let me grab my OTHER +5 weapon...not.

It actually made more sense to get something like Shadow Striking on your main sword so you could bypass all DR, then try and accumulate a bunch of weapons to do it for you.

The other reason is because of Greater Magic Weapon. Why bother to get +5 on a weapon instead of +1 with +9 of kickers, and GMW on top of it?

Because then you still have to bypass DR. With +5 Enhancement built in, you bypass all that stuff, Greater Magic Weapon doesn't do that. So there's an advantage to straight weaponry.

With +5, you can go right for the Adamantine Door-chopper and not worry about such silly things. It was a fighter boost, plain and simple.

Also, note that DR/EPIC is surpassed now by +6 weapons in any format, i.e. a +1 weapon with Holy, Flaming Burst and Keen now passes Epic, instead of requiring a straight enhancement bonus (i.e. +4/5 with a Bane on it)

==Aelryinth


In other words, a simple +5 weapon is not actually aligned. It just bypasses any DR/alignment as if it were the proper alignment.


I actually had some questions to present here in this thread, but Aelryinth has explained pretty well not only how but why this works the way it does.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Aelryinth wrote:

It's to escape the 'golf bag of weapons' that haunted melees in 3E. What do you do when enemies had DR/Lawful, Evil or Chaotic, instead of /Good? Your holy sword is just spit. Likewise with materials...I've got a +5 sword, why am I doing less damage against werewolves, now? Oh, it's cold iron instead of silver. Let me grab my OTHER +5 weapon...not.

It actually made more sense to get something like Shadow Striking on your main sword so you could bypass all DR, then try and accumulate a bunch of weapons to do it for you.

The other reason is because of Greater Magic Weapon. Why bother to get +5 on a weapon instead of +1 with +9 of kickers, and GMW on top of it?

Because then you still have to bypass DR. With +5 Enhancement built in, you bypass all that stuff, Greater Magic Weapon doesn't do that. So there's an advantage to straight weaponry.

With +5, you can go right for the Adamantine Door-chopper and not worry about such silly things. It was a fighter boost, plain and simple.

Also, note that DR/EPIC is surpassed now by +6 weapons in any format, i.e. a +1 weapon with Holy, Flaming Burst and Keen now passes Epic, instead of requiring a straight enhancement bonus (i.e. +4/5 with a Bane on it)

==Aelryinth

Note that the +5 enhancement from greater magic weapon is subject to the "no more that 10 points of enhancements" rule, so you would benefit from 9 points of special abilities while applying it.

There is no clear rule of how it work, but I would say that you would have to choose what is shut down when you cast the spell.

And the +5 weapon don't stop regeneration/fast healing if you need a material or alignment to stop them.


A lot of DMs won't let you get more than +5 in extra abilities unless you start paying epic prices for it, I'm fairly certain.

If it's not in the rules then it should most definitely be in the realm of the DM's sanity. Less of course, he pulls this trick also in which case... screw it.


Mars Roma wrote:
So, is the Alignment based one at +5 just 'whatever is convenient' or what ever the Alignment of the wielder is. Seems to me like its the former as that makes the most sense, but seems a little Unfair and too easy. I mean what are the chances you're a martial without at least a weapon of +5 fighting a Balor or any CR 20+ creature.

The answer to your question is "whatever is convenient".

If you find this distasteful, you may house rule however you wish - but before you do, recall that the weapons don't get the alignment damage itself (no +2d6 for them).

Personally, I don't mind weapons counting as cold iron and silver, but the alignment part bugs me. There are several ways to get around align DR - several spells do it and some class abilities can allow you to buff your weapon (e.g. a paladin can use Divine Bond to add Anarchic to attack a Marut.) I'd rather increase the availability of these abilities than blanket the +5 with this ability.

Perhaps a good middle ground would be that a +5 weapon counts as *your* alignment.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Diego Rossi wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

It's to escape the 'golf bag of weapons' that haunted melees in 3E. What do you do when enemies had DR/Lawful, Evil or Chaotic, instead of /Good? Your holy sword is just spit. Likewise with materials...I've got a +5 sword, why am I doing less damage against werewolves, now? Oh, it's cold iron instead of silver. Let me grab my OTHER +5 weapon...not.

It actually made more sense to get something like Shadow Striking on your main sword so you could bypass all DR, then try and accumulate a bunch of weapons to do it for you.

The other reason is because of Greater Magic Weapon. Why bother to get +5 on a weapon instead of +1 with +9 of kickers, and GMW on top of it?

Because then you still have to bypass DR. With +5 Enhancement built in, you bypass all that stuff, Greater Magic Weapon doesn't do that. So there's an advantage to straight weaponry.

With +5, you can go right for the Adamantine Door-chopper and not worry about such silly things. It was a fighter boost, plain and simple.

Also, note that DR/EPIC is surpassed now by +6 weapons in any format, i.e. a +1 weapon with Holy, Flaming Burst and Keen now passes Epic, instead of requiring a straight enhancement bonus (i.e. +4/5 with a Bane on it)

==Aelryinth

Note that the +5 enhancement from greater magic weapon is subject to the "no more that 10 points of enhancements" rule, so you would benefit from 9 points of special abilities while applying it.

There is no clear rule of how it work, but I would say that you would have to choose what is shut down when you cast the spell.

And the +5 weapon don't stop regeneration/fast healing if you need a material or alignment to stop them.

That's NOW, and after a specific ruling.

wasn't that way in 3.5, which is one of the very positive changes from Paizo.

Making magic items have solid advantages over cast spells is one way of shifting power away from spellcasters.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

master_marshmallow wrote:

A lot of DMs won't let you get more than +5 in extra abilities unless you start paying epic prices for it, I'm fairly certain.

If it's not in the rules then it should most definitely be in the realm of the DM's sanity. Less of course, he pulls this trick also in which case... screw it.

In which case, they are making house rules.

PF rule: No weapon, armor or shield can have more than a +10 in enhancement bonuses.

Most, but not all, weapon, armor and shield enhancements use a cost of +X bonus, where the X gives a sliding scale cost for the enhancement.

You have to have at least a +1 to hit/damage enhancement on the weapon to add any of the other types of enhancement to it, but you cannot make it more than +5 to hit/damage in Core rules (other than Bane and its ilk), and you can have no more than +10 enhancement on it total, whether that is +1 flaming, bane, shocking burst, ghost touch, keen etc, or +5 Vorpal.

Besides, what you are advocating really doesn't work well when coupled with a blade bound Magus, as early as 9th or 10th level, IIRC.

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